(POST-GAME) @Butler, Sat. Jan. 19, 4:30pm, FOX / 570AM

[quote="Paultzman" post=316317]Zach B
Marvin Clark II: “We just didn’t play great collectively as a team for 30 minutes, with the passion we needed to win in this building. It was there in the spurts. On the road, we just got to be better. Be a little more locked in, be a little more focused." #sjubb

Should they get this by now? veteran team, no?[/quote]absolutely. Should already know that you can’t take any possessions off. Need to play with same focus they displayed for 35 minutes against Nova (another game that their talent advantage should have been the difference).
 
[quote="Marillac" post=316274][quote="Mean Gene" post=316270]The guarantee and NCAA Tournament berth, we have have to sweep three of these teams, Georgetown, Creighton, Marquette, Xavier and Providence. Split with everyone else.[/quote]

That's just not accurate. 10-9 with a win the Big East tournament gets us in. 9-9 plus a win is bubble city.[/quote]

There is no way 21-10 at the end of the regular season gets us in the NCAA’s with our weak OOC schedule. One in the BET makes us 22-11, that’s not enough with our weak resume. The only way 22 wins gets us in is if we beat Duke. 23-10 with a win over Duke would do it. Otherwise, it’s Big East Tournament champs or bust
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=316337][quote="Marillac" post=316274][quote="Mean Gene" post=316270]The guarantee and NCAA Tournament berth, we have have to sweep three of these teams, Georgetown, Creighton, Marquette, Xavier and Providence. Split with everyone else.[/quote]

That's just not accurate. 10-9 with a win the Big East tournament gets us in. 9-9 plus a win is bubble city.[/quote]

There is no way 21-10 at the end of the regular season gets us in the NCAA’s with our weak OOC schedule. One in the BET makes us 22-11, that’s not enough with our weak resume. The only way 22 wins gets us in is if we beat Duke. 23-10 with a win over Duke would do it. Otherwise, it’s Big East Tournament champs or bust[/quote]
Of course
 
[quote="Monte" post=316325][quote="Marillac" post=316318][quote="Monte" post=316314][quote="Marillac" post=316310][quote="Monte" post=316308][quote="Marillac" post=316305][quote="Monte" post=316302][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316294][quote="Marillac" post=316293]This is the Big East fellas. Road wins are rare unless you are elite. Gtown becomes close to a must win now. We are only in this spot because of crap luck with Ponds missing the one gimmee in the schedule.

If given the choice I take this team over either of Lavin's tournament teams. I think they'll make some noise later.[/quote] Time will tell but that first Lavin team had balls of steel. Agree about the 2nd team[/quote]

It kills me to say this, but I think that Lavin’s first team was better all around. They were much more balanced and deep, and had size. They were also far more disciplined. Dare I say, they looked to be better coached.[/quote]

Depth, experience, continuity, size...that team has it all. But they couldn't hit the offensive glass at all and they didn't have a guy who could take over. This team has someone that can take over and they CAN rebound on offense.[/quote]

Buckets?[/quote]

Not even close.[/quote]

Not even close to what? He had a phenomenal senior year for us. Averaged 18+ a game. Was our top scorer and ran the offense much of the time he was on the court. Had some huge baskets including the game winner against Pitt.[/quote]

He's not even close to Ponds, but who is? He was a complete liability on both defense and the glass. He was also not the same class of athete nor distributor.

There was never a single day where Hardy was looked at as a possible NBA player. Ponds has been in mock drafts for three years. He was an All--American as a soph.

I still rank Hardy highly. Top 10 the last 20 years.[/quote]

Where did I compare him to Ponds? Hardy carried the offensive load on that team, much like Hatten did on his teams. Both had great seasons for us and took over games oftentimes. Both great college players(I could care less what kind of pro prospects they were). Not comparing either to Ponds.[/quote]

You literally replied to and quoted a thread of a comparison of Ponds and Hardy.
 
Missed the second half and glad I did. I love the Johnnies, but have seen enough of this team to conclude we are heading towards being a 8 or 9 seed at best and very likely a bubble team, which with this level of talent is just not good enough. We have a very talented starting five that often does not seem to be on the same page and, despite all the preseason enthusiasm about depth, no bench whatsoever. Granted we can get hot and beat anyone on any given day, but expected more than that this year.
 
We all said this when it happened, the way this season is playing out, that game against Seton Hall is going to come to bite us. We will be a bubble team and that game as a win would have been huge
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=316337][quote="Marillac" post=316274][quote="Mean Gene" post=316270]The guarantee and NCAA Tournament berth, we have have to sweep three of these teams, Georgetown, Creighton, Marquette, Xavier and Providence. Split with everyone else.[/quote]

That's just not accurate. 10-9 with a win the Big East tournament gets us in. 9-9 plus a win is bubble city.[/quote]

There is no way 21-10 at the end of the regular season gets us in the NCAA’s with our weak OOC schedule. One in the BET makes us 22-11, that’s not enough with our weak resume. The only way 22 wins gets us in is if we beat Duke. 23-10 with a win over Duke would do it. Otherwise, it’s Big East Tournament champs or bust[/quote] cursecif Seth Greenberg
 
Since Butler joined the Big East in the 2013/2014 season we have only beaten them 1 out of 6 times at Hinkle Fieldhouse. In fact after our initial seventeen point victory there in 2014 we have lost five straight times in Indiana and have lost to them by an average of 20.2 points per defeat.

Won 69-52 in 2014
Lost 85-62 in 2015
Lost 78-58 in 2016
Lost 110-86 in 2017
Lost 70-45 in 2018
Lost 80-71 in 2019

Going in this was going to be a tough game to win no matter what. Add in a balky back from Ponds, Clark being sick this week and Figueroa fouling out and the result was not at all surprising. That said as a fan base we are hoping that this team will rise above the odds and start winning games that look to be difficult difficult to pull off. However before going off the deep end, realize that Villanova has been the best team in the Big East the past two years going 68 and 7 and winning one national championship. However two of those seven losses were at Hinkle Fieldhouse to Butler where they went 0 and 2. Fact is this is just a tough place to win at.

Some places and matchups are particularly tough to overcome. Today a vastly superior Michigan team went on the road to play at Wisconsin. Going in Michigan certainly seemed the much better team compiling a dominant 17 and 0 record this season while Wisconsin was 11 and 6. That said if you looked at past performances you would have seen that Michigan had lost something like twelve of their last fourteen games at Wisconsin. Well past history held up again when previously undefeated Michigan lost to Wisonsin today by ten points 64-54.

Hopefully this team will win some road games where trends say otherwise. We did this at Georgetown ending a thirteen game losing streak and almost did so at Seton Hall. I think there will be more road wins to come, but in order to make the tournament we will have to mostly hold serve at home and pick up some tough road victories.
 
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If mullins comments are genuine then this loss is on the players for not executing. This is a tough loss and the team should be winning some games on road. Wonder if Heron revets leaving at top 15 team
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=316327][quote="Monte" post=316302][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316294][quote="Marillac" post=316293]This is the Big East fellas. Road wins are rare unless you are elite. Gtown becomes close to a must win now. We are only in this spot because of crap luck with Ponds missing the one gimmee in the schedule.

If given the choice I take this team over either of Lavin's tournament teams. I think they'll make some noise later.[/quote] Time will tell but that first Lavin team had balls of steel. Agree about the 2nd team[/quote]

It kills me to say this, but I think that Lavin’s first team was better all around. They were much more balanced and deep, and had size. They were also far more disciplined. Dare I say, they looked to be better coached.[/quote]

Dunlap was pretty good[/quote] why you knocking St Jean :)
 
[quote="Johnnie Drama" post=316283][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316280][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=316278][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316277]The thought of being 9-9 in year 4 makes me sick[/quote]

Especially with the talent on this team.[/quote] Exactly. From a starting 5 perspective most talent since Jarvis beginning and even worse it's mostly veterans. We gotta have the oldest starting 5 in the big east or close to it[/quote]

I would think we have one of the oldest starting 5's out of the power conferences.[/quote]

The game could be summarized as follows:
The Butler  bench scored 39 points.
St. John's 4 bench points were scored late in the game by Keita.

Trimble's 10 minutes amounted to a bunch of zeros. He is used strictly as a medium through whose hands the ball passes to another player.  With him in the game we go from a 5-out to a 4-out offensive game.

Bunnies? Easter may not be here but our players miss the most bunnies in the Big East.  As Mullin would say "I don't know why".

Shamorie was a mystery in the first half.  Played like he was Mr. Softie. I'm going to assume his back is causing him to play stiff.
Figueroa and Simon, king of missed bunnies, were both ineffective guarding Jordan Tucker. Trimble looked bloated and slow all game.

Mullin unveiled a hybrid zone that my nephew's CYO team executes better.  As bad as our defense was in the first half our offense was downright putrid scoring just 27 points.

The second half was much of the same with rushed shots, over penetrating and Shamorie Ponds not controlling the offense.

Not sure if the long rest will change the destiny of this short and short handed team. We are 3-4 where we've played real teams as opposed to that OOC schedule that fooled many of us.  I'm not sure if a small team with zero production from their bench has 6 more wins in it to salvage Mullin's 4th season.  Not having a serviceable bench and continuing to lose players in year four is disappointing.
Something needs to change.  Mullin's philosophy is to play through it but we may just not have the horses and depth to expect much going into February.
This team has a hair's thin margin of error and one or two players having an off game is usually going to translate into a loss.
Speaking of hair, Simon, Trimble, Clark and Roberts should spend more time in the gym working on their basketball style than styling their hair.

Finally, to keep Jack Williams happy I'm going to make my Clark comment as follows.  At the 5:30 mark and the score 60-66 Marvin gets a technical foul. Shots and the ball to Butler. A 5th year player shouldn't cost his team with uncontrolled emotion. Also, recruiting is, and has been mediocre. Just look at our bench and the continuing parade of dissatisfied transfers coming in to replace Shamorie Ponds.
Color me skeptical.
 
[quote="ron " post=316316]Since most agree that this is our most talented team in a long time, at what point is it on the coaching?[/quote]

Our most talented team in a long time has posted the best record we've seen in a long time.

Is it a perfect roster? No. Is it better than we've seen? Yes.

Pretty clear from the outset this season without ups, downs, screw ups and, on occasion, high points. Hang on and enjoy the ride.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=316320][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316241]Angriest I’ve been this season. Serenity Now[/quote]

Insanity later.[/quote]or Alcohol
 
[quote="Marillac" post=316319][quote="Paultzman" post=316317]Zach B
Marvin Clark II: “We just didn’t play great collectively as a team for 30 minutes, with the passion we needed to win in this building. It was there in the spurts. On the road, we just got to be better. Be a little more locked in, be a little more focused." #sjubb

Should they get this by now? veteran team, no?[/quote]

Veteran team on paper. 4/8 in rotation playing first season here.[/quote]

Here we go!!!:whistle:
4\8 playing first season excuse. Welcome to transfer U. That will be our story until this staff learns to recruit and top players out of prep actually believe in them. Hasn't happened in 4 years now.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=316323][quote="Monte" post=316314][quote="Marillac" post=316310][quote="Monte" post=316308][quote="Marillac" post=316305][quote="Monte" post=316302][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316294][quote="Marillac" post=316293]This is the Big East fellas. Road wins are rare unless you are elite. Gtown becomes close to a must win now. We are only in this spot because of crap luck with Ponds missing the one gimmee in the schedule.

If given the choice I take this team over either of Lavin's tournament teams. I think they'll make some noise later.[/quote] Time will tell but that first Lavin team had balls of steel. Agree about the 2nd team[/quote]

It kills me to say this, but I think that Lavin’s first team was better all around. They were much more balanced and deep, and had size. They were also far more disciplined. Dare I say, they looked to be better coached.[/quote]

Depth, experience, continuity, size...that team has it all. But they couldn't hit the offensive glass at all and they didn't have a guy who could take over. This team has someone that can take over and they CAN rebound on offense.[/quote]

Buckets?[/quote]

Not even close.[/quote]

Not even close to what? He had a phenomenal senior year for us. Averaged 18+ a game. Was our top scorer and ran the offense much of the time he was on the court. Had some huge baskets including the game winner against Pitt.[/quote]

Remember the agenda, there are people on this board who are dedicated to the proposition that Norm was the worst thing ever. They swear by it. Therefore any mediocre team has to be better than anything he recruited and Lavin coached. Keep in mind that 2010-11 SJU team beat 2 number 1 seeds, a 3 seed, a 5, 6 and a 9 seed on the road in a League that put 11 teams in the Tourney in 2011. But we should look forward to this team making a 2011 like UCONN run because someone told us. The buffoonery is beyond transparent.[/quote] I totally get why Lavin was fired. I was more against it than for it at the time but that first team flat out wrecked teams in a stacked conference. We beat the shit out of teams once they got settled sometime after the Fordham debacle.. It's not even comparable. Just that 1 year and that first team had a lot less talent just deeper. They would destroy this entire conference
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=316349][quote="Johnnie Drama" post=316283][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316280][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=316278][quote="mjmaherjr" post=316277]The thought of being 9-9 in year 4 makes me sick[/quote]

Especially with the talent on this team.[/quote] Exactly. From a starting 5 perspective most talent since Jarvis beginning and even worse it's mostly veterans. We gotta have the oldest starting 5 in the big east or close to it[/quote]

I would think we have one of the oldest starting 5's out of the power conferences.[/quote]

The game could be summarized as follows:
The Butler  bench scored 39 points.
St. John's 4 bench points were scored late in the game by Keita.

Trimble's 10 minutes amounted to a bunch of zeros. He is used strictly as a medium through whose hands the ball passes to another player.  With him in the game we go from a 5-out to a 4-out offensive game.

Bunnies? Easter may not be here but our players miss the most bunnies in the Big East.  As Mullin would say "I don't know why".

Shamorie was a mystery in the first half.  Played like he was Mr. Softie. I'm going to assume his back is causing him to play stiff.
Figueroa and Simon, king of missed bunnies, were both ineffective guarding Jordan Tucker. Trimble looked bloated and slow all game.

Mullin unveiled a hybrid zone that my nephew's CYO team executes better.  As bad as our defense was in the first half our offense was downright putrid scoring just 27 points.

The second half was much of the same with rushed shots, over penetrating and Shamorie Ponds not controlling the offense.

Not sure if the long rest will change the destiny of this short and short handed team. We are 3-4 where we've played real teams as opposed to that OOC schedule that fooled many of us.  I'm not sure if a small team with zero production from their bench has 6 more wins in it to salvage Mullin's 4th season.  Not having a serviceable bench and continuing to lose players in year four is disappointing.
Something needs to change.  Mullin's philosophy is to play through it but we may just not have the horses and depth to expect much going into February.
This team has a hair's thin margin of error and one or two players having an off game is usually going to translate into a loss.
Speaking of hair, Simon, Trimble, Clark and Roberts should spend more time in the gym working on their basketball style than styling their hair.

Finally, to keep Jack Williams happy I'm going to make my Clark comment as follows.  At the 5:30 mark and the score 60-66 Marvin gets a technical foul. Shots and the ball to Butler. A 5th year player shouldn't cost his team with uncontrolled emotion. Also, recruiting is, and has been mediocre. Just look at our bench and the continuing parade of dissatisfied transfers coming in to replace Shamorie Ponds.
Color me skeptical.[/quote]
T was on LJ who followed it up with an uncharacteristic out of control court length drive resulting in an offensive foul.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=316355][quote="Marillac" post=316319][quote="Paultzman" post=316317]Zach B
Marvin Clark II: “We just didn’t play great collectively as a team for 30 minutes, with the passion we needed to win in this building. It was there in the spurts. On the road, we just got to be better. Be a little more locked in, be a little more focused." #sjubb

Should they get this by now? veteran team, no?[/quote]

Veteran team on paper. 4/8 in rotation playing first season here.[/quote]

Here we go!!!:whistle:
4\8 playing first season excuse. Welcome to transfer U. That will be our story until this staff learns to recruit and top players out of prep actually believe in them. Hasn't happened in 4 years now.[/quote]

Exactly, we should be transfer U which would allow SJU a ready made excuse each year of "we have too many new players to expect to win..."
 
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