Official Visits

[quote="fordham96" post=295136]Lavin left the roster bare after he was fired in 2015 that is why they are unable to land top recruits.

How does inheriting a thin roster have anything to do with being able to connect and recruit top kids in year 4? Absolutely nothing but someone is bound to use it.

BTW-Remember a few weeks ago when I stated that offering people like Jalen HIll, Jaylin Williams, Anthony Walker and Kadin Shedrick had LESS to do with a staff trying to make sure they have solid backup plans IF their main targets go elsewhere and MORE about a staff that is simply poorly constructed with no real recruiting strategy and is constantly recruiting from behind. Remember? I am afraid in the next few weeks you are going to see the results of what I just said.[/quote] ...And all this again, points to the need for another experienced recruiter. Oh well.
 
To be totally honest, I don't think our HS recruiting has been any better than Lavin in his worst year since getting Ponds. A huge part of the recruiting failure is obviously attributed to tons of losing, but the staff has to accept a big portion of the blame too. Again, DePaul is proof that it's not all about winning even if it is a big reason.
 
Maybe we should not target the HS 5 star recruits and put the full court press on the 4 stars. We can get the 5 stars w our transfer game. But HS recruiting is not our strength.
 
We already have Eli Wright and David Caraher signed and I am sure we will bring in some more transfers to fill out the roster.
 
[quote="Andrew" post=295140]We already have Eli Wright and David Caraher signed and I am sure we will bring in some more transfers to fill out the roster.[/quote]

I expected a lot more from the Mullin hire by recruiting class #4 then Eli Wright and David Caraher who are already on the roster but can't play.

And I don't think I'm alone.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295149][quote="Andrew" post=295140]We already have Eli Wright and David Caraher signed and I am sure we will bring in some more transfers to fill out the roster.[/quote]

I expected a lot more from the Mullin hire by recruiting class #4 then Eli Wright and David Caraher who are already on the roster but can't play.
And I don't think I'm alone.[/quote]


I don’t get it. Why isn’t a living legend down in the mud (like John Candy in Stripes), to get his alma mater back to Hoops Glory?
Gotta joke in the midst of misery, and before I’m attacked on ‘hanging’ our hero—mine very much as well—it seems like our recruiting 'strategy' is hardly that, and instead is, disconnected, ad hoc, intermittent, and stumbling.
We know that Mack visited Aidan’s mom and that Matt is going.
We do not know the ‘timeline’ of that, the motivation behind each trip.
And, since we’ve not cited by most predictors to be favored—and Louisville is—a great question is why did Mack go, why is Matt going and why is Chris not?
Okay, attack.
 
Last edited:
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=295137][quote="fordham96" post=295136]Lavin left the roster bare after he was fired in 2015 that is why they are unable to land top recruits.

How does inheriting a thin roster have anything to do with being able to connect and recruit top kids in year 4? Absolutely nothing but someone is bound to use it.

BTW-Remember a few weeks ago when I stated that offering people like Jalen HIll, Jaylin Williams, Anthony Walker and Kadin Shedrick had LESS to do with a staff trying to make sure they have solid backup plans IF their main targets go elsewhere and MORE about a staff that is simply poorly constructed with no real recruiting strategy and is constantly recruiting from behind. Remember? I am afraid in the next few weeks you are going to see the results of what I just said.[/quote] ...And all this again, points to the need for another experienced recruiter. Oh well.[/quote]

Who was it that didn't want Rice, was it Mullin himself? Maybe the guy could have helped sju bag 1 or 2 top kids, but chris has to be thick headed and refuse help? ok, fine.
Do it your way chris, just don't fail this year or I got a feeling alot of people won't hold back after 4 year of garbage.
 
I totally get Mullin getting a few years to put together a roster of his own and learning on the job. I get that he's a new coach. However, he finally has his guys and he has legitimately high level players. On paper we will be as talented as Villanova with Heron, but the difference is Jay Wright knows how to make the talent mesh to form a strong team that wins consistently. This will be the key for Mullin. What I don't get is Mullin allowing others to outwork him. How much did we hear of his work ethic and him being a gym rat? In his press conference accepting the job, he famously got us all giddy when he said he'd be knocking down the doors of every local gym for recruits. What we've actually seen through his actions have been a stark difference compared to what he promised. I get that it's very difficult to run to JFK and fly over to Ireland for a recruit, but in today's insanely competitive landscape, that's what you have to do if you want the big boy recruits. That's the level of dedication you need. To consistently see other head coaches flying all over and doing all they can to get a top recruit juxtaposed with Mullin not putting in the same effort is very frustrating.

I totally understand that even if Mullin flew millions of miles he still may lose out on a top recruit, but you have to totally dedicate yourself especially if you're an underdog school competing with the likes of Louisville and other massive programs. It's one thing if you're Duke, you can let the Coach K name and the Duke brand speak for itself. But we are fighting just to be relevant again. I really am not a Mullin hater, I'm a Mullin critic based directly on his results and effort thus far. Mullin the person seems like a great guy who overcame a lot in his life and I have a ton of respect for him. But he must remember that he shooed away help at every turn and said he can do it himself...now it's looking like more of the same recruiting HS recruits i.e. nonexistent. Caraher and Wright are decent pickups, but there's absolutely no indication they are going to be studs at the Big East level. Being a HOFer and dream teamer only gets you so far. I have to be honest, I didn't really know much about Mullin before I became a huge SJ fan and I was born in 89. These guys we are recruiting were born in basically 2000. You will never be blamed for failing giving it your all, but you will be blamed for failing because you were outworked.
 
Mike, you made some very valid points. I am generally happy that the talent level has steadily risen under Chris, but I have been wary of the overreliance on the transfer market and lack of proper targeting and closing on HS recruits.

It seems that, along the lines of what you've outlined, it is very hard for a HOF guy (gym rat or not) to now get down and dirty to do the scut work that needs to be done to compete in the recruiting business.

It's like the rainmaker partner at the big Wall Street law firm changing jobs to go become a first year prosecutor. Or the CEO of a fortune 500 company becoming the marketing director of a small business. Once you get to a certain level, it is really hard to back down. Especially when you really don't need the job or the money.

The recruiting business at D1 takes HUNGER and drive and unrelenting persistence. It also takes being deadly serious about who to target, realistic expectations and Plans A, B, C and D.

We see that maybe our staff of 2 HOFs and Matt is not totally geared to the down and dirty. 2 don't need the job or money. 2 are not looking to building long term college bb coaching careers. Etc. So, that reflects in the effort. As I have said, the next phase of the Mullin era has to be a normalization of the HS recruiting regimen. If that does not happen, it is hard to see sustained success. Yes, we will have years like (hopefully) this one where we have good talent to compete in conference and beyond. But sustainable success will depend on developing that pipeline of well-targeted, right-sized in terms of expectations, solid HS recruits (not 5 stars) that will lead to consistent winning and program building.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=295156]
....Who was it that didn't want Rice, was it Mullin himself?.......[/quote]

——————-

Nope. The Administration did not sign off on the hire because of perceived negative pushback because of Mr. Rice’s past indiscretions reported in the news.
 
Last edited:
I could care less how Mullin fills his roster. Just as long as he gives us a competitive team, which he has for this upcoming year. I have full confidence that his recruiting strategy will keep us competitive into the future. This program under Mullin will succeed, not fail, and all of you naysayers will be proven wrong.
 
When we land kids apparently it is fine to celebrate, but when staff strikes out on targets, expressing disappointment and concern is negativity.

Hard to trust the process blindly when 18 & 19 classes were deemed critical. Please don’t think that getting Caraher, Wright transfers negates striking out on HS targets. I personally think you can only rely on transfers for so long. Kids like Dawes and Kofi are still in play and the Spring may also be fruitful, but to me it is quite ok to be disappointed in results to date.

Winning this year is also critical to recruiting success, but you obviously have to demonstrate that on the court. I think they will, but the BE is always a challenge. On to the season.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To be fair about any discussion regarding Mike Rice , you have to look at why NO other School has hired him ... putting the blame on Mullin is not credible ... as for the constant lament about not landing top 25 or top 50 recruits , you have to realize many of these Players wind up at the Big Money Schools , like Michigan , Duke , Kentucky , Mich State , Ohio State , Wisconsin , UCLA, Indiana . Only recently , with their 2 NCAA Championships has Villanova broken through on attracting the top tier talent . If you look at the Rosters of most BE Schools , it is rare that any can land the one and done player , even Nova . Also too, many of these BIg Money schools are willing to look the other way on Academics . I would say that most BE Schools are looking ideally for the 4 year athlete , who can be a legitimate student and that have the character to not get arrested for drugs, beating their girl friends or , stealing computers from other students , etc . A fair evaluation in getting talented basketball players is a lot more than thinking some designated Assistant Coach will deliver on some or any of them . What chance would Cooley at Providence have in getting Mr. Basketball from Indiana ? Next to none ! Or , for that matter any of the top 5 players in Kentucky ? So, just looking at top 100 lists of Players , it’s a lot more to it than just thinking how easy it is to pick up one or two . .. Fans need to remember that when a kid like Lewis goes elsewhere or, any recruit chooses a school , other than St John’s . It’s a painful dose of reality for all of us . As for the transfers we have brought in , look at it this way , top level talent like Simon , Clarke and Heron , Dixon , Figueroa , Wright , Carraher didn’t come to St John’s because they liked the Red and White uniforms . They came because Chris Mullin is the Coach and they wanted to play for him .
 
Paultzman wrote: When we land kids apparently it is fine to celebrate, but when staff strikes out on targets, expressing disappointment and concern is negativity.

Hard to trust the process blindly when 18 & 19 classes were deemed critical. Please don’t think that getting Caraher, Wright transfers negates striking out on HS targets. I personally think you can only rely on transfers for so long. Kids like Dawes and Kofi are still in play and the Spring may also be fruitful, but to me it is quite ok to be disappointed in results to date.

Winning this year is also critical to recruiting success, but you obviously have to demonstrate that on the court. I think they will, but the BE is always a challenge. On to the season.

The problem with being a Johnnie fan (and yes, those of us who occasionally offer criticism are every bit as much die-hard fans as those who believe staff can never do wrong) is ever since the first couple of Jarvis years (which is 20 years ago) something always seems to go wrong and usually more than just one something. Even in Lavin's first year which really brought the program back from obscurity, there was the catastrophic injury to DJ that killed our post-season chances. Since then, there's been things like the Sanchez eligibility fiasco, Coach Lavin's illness, DJ;s suspension, Jordan's entire off the rails career here, Obekpa's nuttiness and last year the Lovett injury and ensuing fiasco. All of those things make me nervous regarding the MH ruling which is the key to our success this season; without him, we will likely be a bubble team.
Going from a week ago where we appeared to be in the running at some level for Aidan, Precious, Kofi, Gaffney, Bishop & Dawes to yesterday where the sentiment seems to be that we may miss on all of them naturally brings out pessimism on the board. Totally understandable. I am still hopeful we can get at least one of the guards and maybe stay in it for Kofi or Precious until the late signing period, but will not relax until I hear that MH is eligible.
 
huge factors for us....#1 - Getting Heron eligible and playing. With that we achieve goal #2 which is WINNING! Do these two and recruits will come!
 
Here's the thing......

Not meeting expectations is always disappointing. But, not meeting expectations when you know your program is not utilizing all allowable resources, is downright maddening.
 
Last edited:
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=295167]To be fair about any discussion regarding Mike Rice , you have to look at why NO other School has hired him ... putting the blame on Mullin is not credible ... as for the constant lament about not landing top 25 or top 50 recruits , you have to realize many of these Players wind up at the Big Money Schools , like Michigan , Duke , Kentucky , Mich State , Ohio State , Wisconsin , UCLA, Indiana . Only recently , with their 2 NCAA Championships has Villanova broken through on attracting the top tier talent . If you look at the Rosters of most BE Schools , it is rare that any can land the one and done player , even Nova . Also too, many of these BIg Money schools are willing to look the other way on Academics . I would say that most BE Schools are looking ideally for the 4 year athlete , who can be a legitimate student and that have the character to not get arrested for drugs, beating their girl friends or , stealing computers from other students , etc . A fair evaluation in getting talented basketball players is a lot more than thinking some designated Assistant Coach will deliver on some or any of them . What chance would Cooley at Providence have in getting Mr. Basketball from Indiana ? Next to none ! Or , for that matter any of the top 5 players in Kentucky ? So, just looking at top 100 lists of Players , it’s a lot more to it than just thinking how easy it is to pick up one or two . .. Fans need to remember that when a kid like Lewis goes elsewhere or, any recruit chooses a school , other than St John’s . It’s a painful dose of reality for all of us . As for the transfers we have brought in , look at it this way , top level talent like Simon , Clarke and Heron , Dixon , Figueroa , Wright , Carraher didn’t come to St John’s because they liked the Red and White uniforms . They came because Chris Mullin is the Coach and they wanted to play for him .[/quote]

Let me translate this. Any player that ultimately commits and signs with SJU is both elite talent and does so because Chris Mullin is the coach. Which is equivalent to saying any player who signed with Norm Roberts was elite talent who loved Robert's, any player who signed with Lavin was elite and wanted to play for Lavin. Any player who signed with Kevin Stallings at Pitt is elite who wanted to play for Stallings. Every player who signed with Kevin Ollie is elite who wanted to play for Kevin Ollie. Which is the equivalent of saying nothing.

Now back to original programming....
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=295165]I could care less how Mullin fills his roster. Just as long as he gives us a competitive team, which he has for this upcoming year. I have full confidence that his recruiting strategy will keep us competitive into the future. This program under Mullin will succeed, not fail, and all of you naysayers will be proven wrong.[/quote]

I am always heartened by a poster whose job seems to be to always defend the indefensible starts a post with "I could care less..." As if there will be anything surprising in the post.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295149][quote="Andrew" post=295140]We already have Eli Wright and David Caraher signed and I am sure we will bring in some more transfers to fill out the roster.[/quote]

I expected a lot more from the Mullin hire by recruiting class #4 then Eli Wright and David Caraher who are already on the roster but can't play.

And I don't think I'm alone.[/quote]

So in your opinion, what could/should have been done differently that would have allowed us to land our top targets?
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=295171]Here's the thing......

Not meeting expectations is always disappointing. But, not meeting expectations when you know your program is not utilizing all allowable resources, is downright maddening.[/quote]

Bingo, as I said a few weeks ago why would you self-impose a handicap on yourself?

In a post a few weeks ago I used Jeff Capel at Pitt and Danny Hurley at UCONN. No guarantee either will ultimately succeed obviously, but does anyone doubt they will never allow them or their staffs to ever be outworked....and can you imagine either fanbase at UCONN or Pitt ever tolerating anything less????

Or worse yet their fanbases ever making excuses for why their staff members weren't on the road recruiting?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top