Official Visits

[quote="Paultzman" post=295205]Rest assured Matt A would welcome help at this point in his tenure. Perhaps he enjoyed being king of the recruiting hill post Slice, but I know that has changed. Believe me on this.

Hopefully he conveys that to his boss and a second recruiter is added to the mix. Seton Hall, Providence, etc utilize that approach. Our one man model is insufficient based on results I see. If CM chooses to stay the course with Matt doing all the heavy lifting, so be it. We can then see how that translates to becoming a competitive program.

I remain skeptical but supportive. Btw, no one is perfect, but suspect Matt will burn out in the current approach. Without him, the transfer game won’t work as well.[/quote]

Didn't I get killed for suggesting (through logical assumption and zero fact) that not getting Rice or some other recruiter may annoy him and negatively impact him? I believe I was tarred and feathered for such an assumption. Sad to hear it's true, but it does make perfect sense unfortunately. You hear about people who have jobs where they do the work of 2 people after 1 guy gets fired instead of the company hiring their replacement to save money. They are not happy either and do you think they'd be dedicated for life to that company?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=294593]BTW for those that care about rankings Rivals.com released latest top 150 for 2019 class

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2019

Of note:
Achiuwa #8, Lewis #13, Cockburn #30, Quinones #47, Igiehon #51, Ledlum #95, Jaylin Williams #96, Bishop #120, Jalen Hill #131 and Dawes #143.

No Gaffney still. Quinones with a big move into top 50.[/quote]

Lewis, Williams, Bishop and Hill are gone. Achiuwa, Iggy, Quinones are highly unlikely at this point.

I think Ledlum is gone at this point and Gaffney might be as well.

Not good.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295334][quote="fordham96" post=294593]BTW for those that care about rankings Rivals.com released latest top 150 for 2019 class

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2019

Of note:
Achiuwa #8, Lewis #13, Cockburn #30, Quinones #47, Igiehon #51, Ledlum #95, Jaylin Williams #96, Bishop #120, Jalen Hill #131 and Dawes #143.

No Gaffney still. Quinones with a big move into top 50.[/quote]

Lewis, Williams, Bishop and Hill are gone. Achiuwa, Iggy, Quinones are highly unlikely at this point.

I think Ledlum is gone at this point and Gaffney might be as well.

Not good.[/quote]
Agree
 
No worries. We have the sloppy second list for the last 3 years of guys unhappy
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=295338]No worries. We have the sloppy second list for the last 3 years of guys unhappy[/quote]

And I have full confidence that Mullin can steal a kid off that list over Hurley! :lol:
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295334][quote="fordham96" post=294593]BTW for those that care about rankings Rivals.com released latest top 150 for 2019 class

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2019

Of note:
Achiuwa #8, Lewis #13, Cockburn #30, Quinones #47, Igiehon #51, Ledlum #95, Jaylin Williams #96, Bishop #120, Jalen Hill #131 and Dawes #143.

No Gaffney still. Quinones with a big move into top 50.[/quote]

Lewis, Williams, Bishop and Hill are gone. Achiuwa, Iggy, Quinones are highly unlikely at this point.

I think Ledlum is gone at this point and Gaffney might be as well.

Not good.[/quote] How about Kofi?
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295339][quote="mjmaherjr" post=295338]No worries. We have the sloppy second list for the last 3 years of guys unhappy[/quote]

And I have full confidence that Mullin can steal a kid off that list over Hurley! :lol:[/quote]HUrley is too busy recruiting our hs recruits. He doesn't have time for our last minutes transfers
 
Forgive my ignorance, but why is using the transfer market to build a roster with a few high school seniors here and there such a bad thing? I look at our current roster, the best it's been in a long time, and basically aside from Ponds, our main group of players are transfers. We should have an extremely good year this year with these players. So why do we put so much value in freshman that don't even have any experience in college. The current roster is stacked and it's because we play the transfer game well. I don't know. Please explain to me why it's such a big issue. Personally I don't care what we win with, as long as we win. The transfer market is so different than it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to grab an Achiuwa or a Cockburn, but does it really matter at the end of the day what kind of recruit you win with, as long as you win?
 
It's a fair point.

One downside is potential for short bench with injuries if 2-3 guys have to sit every year.

Or like Owens, they graduate and transfer for fifth yr eligibility.

Need to still keep connections at HS / AAU level. I'd like a harder push at some non 5 star locals too. I liked that Dashawn Davis kid from the clips, but apparently we're not pushing there thinking we can get more.
 
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[quote="rawdognyc" post=295349]Forgive my ignorance, but why is using the transfer market to build a roster with a few high school seniors here and there such a bad thing? I look at our current roster, the best it's been in a long time, and basically aside from Ponds, our main group of players are transfers. We should have an extremely good year this year with these players. So why do we put so much value in freshman that don't even have any experience in college. The current roster is stacked and it's because we play the transfer game well. I don't know. Please explain to me why it's such a big issue. Personally I don't care what we win with, as long as we win. The transfer market is so different than it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to grab an Achiuwa or a Cockburn, but does it really matter at the end of the day what kind of recruit you win with, as long as you win?[/quote]

Couple of issues. 1)You do understand that transfers HAVE TO SIT a year. Freshmen are immediately eligible. Their depth is constantly a problem to the point where they were essentially using 6 players at the end of last year. Mikey Dixon and Sedee Keita were on the roster but INELIGIBLE because they are sitting. 2)Let's not act like the transfers SJU are bringing in are killing it. Not one has made an All-BE squad. 3)They are 12-42 in the BE with this strategy. 4)Yes IF Heron gets a waiver they can be good this year but they are poised for another huge roster turnover next year. Are you are going to replace all of them with SITTING TRANSFERS and Eli Wright and David Caraher?

And when did SJU corner the basketball world in wisdom? In other words if there is little difference between the transfer market and signing top talented freshmen why isn't anyone else really doing that in the BE? More importantly how many do it and have success?

Lastly do you really think SJU came up with this strategy because they thought it would work or out of desperation? Answer that honestly and you will understand.
 
With this level of failure in 2019 rercruiting Mullin better hope he wins 30 games this season.

He got a pass for striking out in 2018 but this is not an aberration seeing how poorly recruiting has gone for 2019 as well. I don’t think it has anything to do with Matt being a 1 man show or overwhelmed.

At this point it’s better to end up on an FBI wiretap offering a kid $50,000 and his handler a ZJ while having greater recruiting success. Doesn’t seem to hurt anyone when they get caught and the end result is far greater across the board.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295353][quote="rawdognyc" post=295349]Forgive my ignorance, but why is using the transfer market to build a roster with a few high school seniors here and there such a bad thing? I look at our current roster, the best it's been in a long time, and basically aside from Ponds, our main group of players are transfers. We should have an extremely good year this year with these players. So why do we put so much value in freshman that don't even have any experience in college. The current roster is stacked and it's because we play the transfer game well. I don't know. Please explain to me why it's such a big issue. Personally I don't care what we win with, as long as we win. The transfer market is so different than it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to grab an Achiuwa or a Cockburn, but does it really matter at the end of the day what kind of recruit you win with, as long as you win?[/quote]

Couple of issues. 1)You do understand that transfers HAVE TO SIT a year. Freshmen are immediately eligible. Their depth is constantly a problem to the point where they were essentially using 6 players at the end of last year. Mikey Dixon and Sedee Keita were on the roster but INELIGIBLE because they are sitting. 2)Let's not act like the transfers SJU are bringing in are killing it. Not one has made an All-BE squad. 3)They are 12-42 in the BE with this strategy. 4)Yes IF Heron gets a waiver they can be good this year but they are poised for another huge roster turnover next year. Are you are going to replace all of them with SITTING TRANSFERS and Eli Wright and David Caraher?

And when did SJU corner the basketball world in wisdom? In other words if there is little difference between the transfer market and signing top talented freshmen why isn't anyone else really doing that in the BE? More importantly how many do it and have success?

Lastly do you really think SJU came up with this strategy because they thought it would work or out of desperation? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]

Thanks for your response. I think that in the beginning, you experience what we did last year with a short roster. However why will there be a big turnover next year? Most likely Ponds and Marvin Clark. Looking at the current roster it's pretty staggered with either freshman coming in or transfers or jucos..

Matt MO was there transfer market even at Iowa State. So I think they knew that's what he was bringing to the table. Slice was supposed to bring in the top 100 frosh. When he left and it was basically just Matt A, maybe they did change plans on how to build a roster..idk?
 
I'm as bummed out as the next guy that a number of our top 2019 recruits have either committed elsewhere and/or seem to be slipping away. Yes, it's disheartening.
But, we are still in the mix with Precious, Kofi, Al-Amir, and perhaps Aidan (still?).
Also, hopefully, Tyrese Samuel remainsl a possibility, and DaShawn Davis may be an option at some point.
I think much hinges on the season.
If Mustapha plays and we steamroll through the OOC and seize opportunities in the BEC and vie for the title from the get-go, who knows what our recruiting crop may harvest?
NYC will be abuzz as the wins pile up.
Never say never, and Let's Go St. John's.
(Okay, it may be the vino rosa...)
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=295353]
..... do you really think SJU came up with this strategy because they thought it would work or out of desperation? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]
_________________________

Nope; you are correct that the transfer route was not St. John's preferred method but please let me ask you a question:

... do you deny that the transfer strategy has not effectively increased the talent level on the St. john;s roster over the past 3 season? Answer that honestly and you will understand.
 
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I Believe the sit out rule for transfers is going to be eliminated. Playing the transfer game well under the new rules will provide immediate experience with out taking up roster spots for sit outs. I don’t like the rule , but think it will benefit us w Matt.
 
So what's the difference from having a transfer who sits out a year, practices with the team for that year, matures as a basketball player and then plays 2 or 3 years, from recruiting a 5 star high schooler who only stays one or two years max? Who will contribute more in the long term.?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295228][quote="Beast of the East" post=295216][quote="Paultzman" post=295205]Rest assured Matt A would welcome help at this point in his tenure. Perhaps he enjoyed being king of the recruiting hill post Slice, but I know that has changed. Believe me on this.

Hopefully he conveys that to his boss and a second recruiter is added to the mix. Seton Hall, Providence, etc utilize that approach. Our one man model is insufficient based on results I see. If CM chooses to stay the course with Matt doing all the heavy lifting, so be it. We can then see how that translates to becoming a competitive program.

I remain skeptical but supportive. Btw, no one is perfect, but suspect Matt will burn out in the current approach. Without him, the transfer game won’t work as well.[/quote]

I think there will be hmmm "positive encouragement" put on Chris to expand the staff to include another hard boiled talented recruiter. To that point, I think Mike Rice is a HC type, and not someone who would be happy (in the long term) beating the bushes as a primary pursuit even if he could deliver one or two of his AAU plums. I think recruiters are the college equivalent of middle relief pitchers - incredibly important to the success of a program, but others get all of the credit.

Hopefully it happens, but in the meantime, I do believe Heron will be made eligible, but the NCAA can take its time on this one, perhaps to discourage anyone contemplating doing the same. When that happens, we likely will become a bonafide NCAA team as opposed to a good team fighting for a dance ticket.[/quote]

Can I ask you something, why do you think Heron will be eligible? Do you have inside information?

Or is it based on speculation from people on this board and twitter among other things that gives you hope he will be eligible? Because the rule is that if you transfer you need to sit a year. That is the rule.

My larger point is people who choose to NOT believe certain negative things about this staff chalk it up to "insiders" and "speculation." But the minute something positive "may" happen suddenly we need to "believe" that even though for the most part it is built largely on idle speculation. Why?[/quote]

Actually while logic doesn't always dictate with the ncaa, my belief is based on the reality that IF Heron's mom is really sick, to deny her son a chance to continue play a varsity sport by denying his waiver application could bring a ton of negative publicity upon the ncaa and possibly a lawsuit. If her illness is chronic or relatively minor it would rightfully be denied. But if she is seriously ill, ncaa rules allow a waiver application to sitting out. It appears fairly perfunctory. The distance between queens and his home in ct appears to be within range of a day trip, and unless you are aware of sketchy circumstances, which I am not, it's reasonable to believe the application will ultimately be approved. In an era of BLM it would appear to be excessively punitive and possibly even racist to deny the application if she is indeed ill.

No.inside information. Just logic. Waiver approved, while impacting outlook on season will only affect perception of Mullin insofar as the only thing that really matters are wins.
 
[quote="otis" post=295359][quote="fordham96" post=295353]
..... do you really think SJU came up with this strategy because they thought it would work or out of desperation? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]
_________________________

Nope; you are correct that the transfer route was not St. John's preferred method but please let me ask you a question:

... do you deny that the transfer strategy has not effectively increased the talent level on the St. john;s roster over the past 3 season? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]

Did it rain more today than it did yesterday? Who cates? Increasing the talent level is not the standard genius. Having talent level that gets you to a championship level is the goal. Did Villanova increase their talent level this year from last year? I would say not, so does that mean Mullin is doing a better job than Wright because SJU improved talent after going 1-17. Ah no it doesn't because that is not the standard.

You are great at creating your own straw man then try to sound smart with your own answer.

The objective is to create an upper echelon BE program and do it consistently. I don't measure success nor should anyone based on claiming the talent pool got better from 1-17. Plus you can't have it both ways claiming the previous staff left things bad and then give credit for improving off of that when you could hardly do worse.

Let me ask you this boy wonder. 2 scenerios, tell me which one you prefer.

1st scenario team goes 1-17, 4-14 then 5-13 over a 3 year run. In other words they improved each year.

2nd scenario team goes 16-2, 14-4 and then 14-4. This program didn't improve at all, technically got worse.

Which program would you rather be? Answer that boy wonder and you will understand.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=295363][quote="otis" post=295359][quote="fordham96" post=295353]
..... do you really think SJU came up with this strategy because they thought it would work or out of desperation? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]
_________________________

Nope; you are correct that the transfer route was not St. John's preferred method but please let me ask you a question:

... do you deny that the transfer strategy has not effectively increased the talent level on the St. john;s roster over the past 3 season? Answer that honestly and you will understand.[/quote]

Did it rain more today than it did yesterday? Who cates? Increasing the talent level is not the standard genius. Having talent level that gets you to a championship level is the goal. Did Villanova increase their talent level this year from last year? I would say not, so does that mean Mullin is doing a better job than Wright because SJU improved talent after going 1-17. Ah no it doesn't because that is not the standard.

You are great at creating your own straw man then try to sound smart with your own answer.

The objective is to create an upper echelon BE program and do it consistently. I don't measure success nor should anyone based on claiming the talent pool got better from 1-17. Plus you can't have it both ways claiming the previous staff left things bad and then give credit for improving off of that when you could hardly do worse.

Let me ask you this boy wonder. 2 scenerios, tell me which one you prefer.

1st scenario team goes 1-17, 4-14 then 5-13 over a 3 year run. In other words they improved each year.

2nd scenario team goes 16-2, 14-4 and then 14-4. This program didn't improve at all, technically got worse.

Which program would you rather be? Answer that boy wonder and you will understand.[/quote]

A long term friend of mine became friends with Wright from almost the first day he set foot on hofstra's campus. He handed jay his very first hofstra recruit, who was a 6th man in hs. He told me this great story, which the last time I saw wright, he independently without prodding told me the same story of how the 2 became friends.

Point is that before year 6 of Wright's nova tenure, he told Jay, "Hey, you'd better start winning soon or you won't be at Nova much longer". Of course Jay did, and he is not only rock solid there now,but is a future HOF coach and can just about any job he wants. Fortunately he already has his dream job, credit to both Wright and Villanova.

Stop with the silly comparisons. Mullin does not have to be Wright, nor sju be Villanova, for either to be successful. The goal may be competing at the upper levels of the Big East, and we aren't there yet.

With zero coaching experience it took mullin 2+ full seasons to become a real coach on the sidelines. We will see if he will become a very good coach. Did you have any reason to expect otherwise at this point? To me the signs are there, and his mettle to me was proven how he continued to encourage, support, and push his team through an 11 game losing streak. Sometimes in life you find what's inside if you during adversity and not during success. I do believe that our team finding itself after 0-11 in big east play , during which they played hard the whole way through, is telling.

We are all free to see what we want to see, but waking up being positive that tiday may bring better things sure beats the alternative.
 
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