Official Visits

[quote="Paultzman" post=295276][quote="Chicago Days" post=295275][quote="Paultzman" post=295268]Bishop to LSU highly likely. Thus no Hatten effect.[/quote]


Any 'clue' on Dawes at all?
If no on Dawes as well, is DaShawn Davis our fallback?
Happy likes him, and looks pretty good from the clips I've seen, plus some building 'buzz'.[/quote]
Dawes may be possible. Davis has not received an offer & hear staff is not prepared to yet.[/quote]

I would take Davis now. Local, good student, teammate of Posh Alexander and it looks like he has improved in the summer. And we are in his Top 3 when we haven´t offered, so he has some interest in us.
If not, we will have to wait AGAIN to the transfer market (March/April).
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=295348][quote="SI1996" post=295343]How about Kofi?[/quote]

Here 'ya go!

[attachment=399]025500000343.jpg[/attachment][/quote] Good thing I didn't say 'How about Cockburn?' Afraid what kind of pic would follow :)
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=295360]I Believe the sit out rule for transfers is going to be eliminated. Playing the transfer game well under the new rules will provide immediate experience with out taking up roster spots for sit outs. I don’t like the rule , but think it will benefit us w Matt.[/quote]

But beware of Matt burning out & considering other options. Anyone who assumes SJU will just pick up the transfer game quickly is sadly mistaken. Yes we have brought transfers in throughout program history, but not to this extent. I think my good friend Panther can attest to my points. We just need to balance recruiting better and winning this year may help the perception of the program. That said, having one recruiter is senseless, unfair & less productive.

Providence & Seton Hall don’t have more resources than SJU, but imo they both employ an “old hands on deck” successful approach to recruiting, while also mixing in complementary transfers. Their success over past five years re NCAA Tourney achievement seems to support the utility of their model. Yes we are digging out of a big hole, but so did both programs.

Lastly, don’t think for a moment that Matt isn’t very frustrated in not landing kids he put countless hours in on. Why wouldn’t he be? We sometimes tend to dismiss recruiting losses easily, noting we can just go transfer route. I don’t think he is as cavalier about that. On to the season.
 
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I personally don't think that things are as dire as everyone on this board are making them out to be. If Lovett plays a full season last year I think we would have made postseason tournament. As far as recruiting is concerned, I don't really care where we get the players from. I also don't believe our recruiting situation is as dire as it seems. We have Eli Wright and David Caraher already in the fold for next season. If we lose Ponds , Clark and Heron (assuming he's eligible and we have a great season), we only need one more guy may be two to replace Clark. With Wright and Caraher, if we sign one more combo forward type player will be fine next year with that roster as Roberts and Williams should be able to shoulder more of the load next season as well as a guy like Trimble playing a larger role. You still have Keita, Simon , Dixon and Figueroa. With one more combo forward we are still going ten deep next season with a quality roster. I would like Gaffney or Dawes also for next season if possible, but if not we still have a quality roster. Then I believe after next season we just lose Simon and maybe one more guy leaves for whatever reason. I would like to bring in two top guys in 2020 to really solidify things and keep the momentum going assuming a good season this year and next with the quality of guys that we have. Anyway, it's just how I see it. Trying to b positive here. Matt being discouraged, to me, is the real danger here.
 
Another thing to consider is that all transfers are not created equal. It remains to be seen, but one might make the case that the quality of our transfer classes has been in decline.

2016 -Simon/Clark
2017 -Dixon/Keita
2018 -Wright/Carraher

Now that the mystique of a new Mullin regime has past, only winning can impact our leverage.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=295390][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=295360]I Believe the sit out rule for transfers is going to be eliminated. Playing the transfer game well under the new rules will provide immediate experience with out taking up roster spots for sit outs. I don’t like the rule , but think it will benefit us w Matt.[/quote]
But beware of Matt burning out & considering other options. Anyone who assumes SJU will just pick up the transfer game quickly is sadly mistaken. Yes we have brought transfers in throughout program history, but not to this extent. I think my good friend Panther can attest to my points. We just need to balance recruiting better and winning this year will help. That said having one recruiter is senseless & all our eggs are in one basket.[/quote]

Agree 100%. Matt CAN burn out, but I also know he loves St. John's and also is close to AD staff. The reason Matt plays the transfer game so well is he a the real deal as a person and keeps up with his relationships with kids he has gotten to know - of course there is a business objective there re the prospect of transfers - but Matt appears to really like these kids and is a natural at it.

HS recruits shouldn't be ignored at the expense of transfers and they are not, but it underscores the necessity of having someone other than Matt doing this. Even if we grade Matt as a 10 out of 10, not having enough resources devoted to this area means we are overall not as effective as we could be, and our recruiting scores dips far below 10 because we shoudl have 2 guys doing it mostly full time, and not just GSJ pitching in when he can. Mitch and Chris are really not there to be in every HS gym, as Chris (I believe metaphorically) said at his coronation (sarcastic). But someone from SJU should be able to scour every place locally where great players play and one guy just isn't enough.

Don't agree with Matt getting frustrated as you suggest. Part of selling requires resiliency, and you have to quickly recover from a failed effort and move on to the next. You have to also focus on winnable deals as part of your marketing mix, with only a portion of your time invested in lower % opportunities. Matt's a tough guy, and I would doubt he is losing faith because he isn't closing guys. If that's his frustration at this point he has to focus more on the guys he can get signed, and not unwinnable deals.
 
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Beast wrote:
"With zero coaching experience it took mullin 2+ full seasons to become a real coach on the sidelines. We will see if he will become a very good coach. Did you have any reason to expect otherwise at this point? To me the signs are there, "

We all appreciate your optimism. But this topic is about recruiting and the loaded 2019 class the staff has supposedly been after for 3 full seasons. If all these targets, mostly local NY area kids, go elsewhere there are no signs that, other than the occasional transfer malcontent, Mullin, Richmond or GSJ have learned a damn thing about recruiting.
The ONLY THING that made the unorthodox Mullin hire palpable was the hiring of two recruiters with experience. As you know Matt came THIS CLOSE to leaving before being given a huge salary increase. Salary may not be the issue next time around but quality of life for his family. Long Island City is not exactly the place to raise children.
Matt has targeted every single recruit. The three amigos from California know zilch, nada, zero about identifying and pursuing recruiting targets. To me there are no signs that Mullin will have long term success with this method of recruiting and recruiting is 90% of the job. We may have a very successful season this year and possibly even the following but it is also very possible everyone splits after their 6 year contracts are up and the rebuild from ground zero repeats itself. Should that happen this will go down to a huge hiring blunder and we will be forever Fordham.
 
I warned about this (to laughter and condemnation) during the time we thought we were going to get Rice. Matt has expressed frustration on social media and has dropped hints here and there as to being frustrated as well. This, after he asked for a raise and was reportedly overworked being the only recruiter. No I never actually heard anyone say "Matt is going to leave", but it was implied if things didn't get drastically better on the recruiting front. Either Mullin doesn't realize this which is shocking or Mullin is really that stubborn...or maybe he doesn't really care at the end of the day like we do. All of the above are unacceptable. You could see the cracks forming for years with this stuff and there were tons of alarms and warnings, but this is what happens when you ignore them. My hope is that we have a great season next year and everyone including Matt is rejuvenated.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295399]I warned about this (to laughter and condemnation) during the time we thought we were going to get Rice. Matt has expressed frustration on social media and has dropped hints here and there as to being frustrated as well. This, after he asked for a raise and was reportedly overworked being the only recruiter. No I never actually heard anyone say "Matt is going to leave", but it was implied if things didn't get drastically better on the recruiting front. Either Mullin doesn't realize this which is shocking or Mullin is really that stubborn...or maybe he doesn't really care at the end of the day like we do. All of the above are unacceptable. You could see the cracks forming for years with this stuff and there were tons of alarms and warnings, but this is what happens when you ignore them. My hope is that we have a great season next year and everyone including Matt is rejuvenated.[/quote]

Disagree strongly with your take on things, where you draw conclusions as if fact, which is faulty all by itself.

HEre's what I would say, though. When you have only 1 person in a key position, all by itself, it puts that person in an advantageous position so far as salary demands. If we had Matt1 and Matt2 as recruiters, if Matt1 comes in and wants a big raise above his market value, you can say, sorry, we can't pay you that, and if you leave MAtt2 will carry on until we find your replacement. Having no Matt2 only put Matt in a better position to make a salary demand and anyone worth his weight in his position could take advantage of that.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=295400][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295399]I warned about this (to laughter and condemnation) during the time we thought we were going to get Rice. Matt has expressed frustration on social media and has dropped hints here and there as to being frustrated as well. This, after he asked for a raise and was reportedly overworked being the only recruiter. No I never actually heard anyone say "Matt is going to leave", but it was implied if things didn't get drastically better on the recruiting front. Either Mullin doesn't realize this which is shocking or Mullin is really that stubborn...or maybe he doesn't really care at the end of the day like we do. All of the above are unacceptable. You could see the cracks forming for years with this stuff and there were tons of alarms and warnings, but this is what happens when you ignore them. My hope is that we have a great season next year and everyone including Matt is rejuvenated.[/quote]

Disagree strongly with your take on things, where you draw conclusions as if fact, which is faulty all by itself.

HEre's what I would say, though. When you have only 1 person in a key position, all by itself, it puts that person in an advantageous position so far as salary demands. If we had Matt1 and Matt2 as recruiters, if Matt1 comes in and wants a big raise above his market value, you can say, sorry, we can't pay you that, and if you leave MAtt2 will carry on until we find your replacement. Having no Matt2 only put Matt in a better position to make a salary demand and anyone worth his weight in his position could take advantage of that.[/quote]

Disagree with which part? And I think it goes beyond salary with him now...he's making a lot but quality of life is also a factor and he's always on the go nonstop (while yes it's part of the job), though he's the one shouldering all of the recruiting effort. He posted something about how hard it is to be away from his family so much all the time because he's always out recruiting. He now has a baby, so perhaps money isn't the end all be all for him anymore? He's being paid very well, but he's not happy.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295401][quote="Beast of the East" post=295400][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295399]I warned about this (to laughter and condemnation) during the time we thought we were going to get Rice. Matt has expressed frustration on social media and has dropped hints here and there as to being frustrated as well. This, after he asked for a raise and was reportedly overworked being the only recruiter. No I never actually heard anyone say "Matt is going to leave", but it was implied if things didn't get drastically better on the recruiting front. Either Mullin doesn't realize this which is shocking or Mullin is really that stubborn...or maybe he doesn't really care at the end of the day like we do. All of the above are unacceptable. You could see the cracks forming for years with this stuff and there were tons of alarms and warnings, but this is what happens when you ignore them. My hope is that we have a great season next year and everyone including Matt is rejuvenated.[/quote]

Disagree strongly with your take on things, where you draw conclusions as if fact, which is faulty all by itself.

HEre's what I would say, though. When you have only 1 person in a key position, all by itself, it puts that person in an advantageous position so far as salary demands. If we had Matt1 and Matt2 as recruiters, if Matt1 comes in and wants a big raise above his market value, you can say, sorry, we can't pay you that, and if you leave MAtt2 will carry on until we find your replacement. Having no Matt2 only put Matt in a better position to make a salary demand and anyone worth his weight in his position could take advantage of that.[/quote]

Disagree with which part? And I think it goes beyond salary with him now...he's making a lot but quality of life is also a factor and he's always on the go nonstop (while yes it's part of the job), though he's the one shouldering all of the recruiting effort. He posted something about how hard it is to be away from his family so much all the time because he's always out recruiting. He now has a baby, so perhaps money isn't the end all be all for him anymore? He's being paid very well, but he's not happy.[/quote]

If you recruit, you have to hit the road. Period. All I'm saying is that going in and asking for a big raise requires you have some leverage. Inferring that you may quiet and move on can be a helpful, almost necessary posture. Franny F. tried that and it got him fired, not the silly drop the pants stuff, which came out in the aftermath. Matt is smart, played his cards right, and got a big raise. I'm sure he loves doing this, and he isn't about to become a HC, so this is a role in basketball that suits him best, and travel is part of the job.
 
Off topic, but a funny anecdote about that 247 crystal ball thing - josiah james just committed to tennessee. he had no predictions there. his last 15 predictions this week were all to clemson. LOL
 
If Mullin wins here it renders a lot of the debates that seem to dominate mostly moot. Let's modestly call it 21-22 wins + Top 5 in BE more years than not + an NCAA 2-3 out of 5. Might seem remote for SJU but shouldn't be because other similarly situated programs in our conference are doing better than that like it's a layup line.

If Mullin wins like that I really don't care if he coaches games via FaceTime from a scorers' table in his house in California, leaves 1 of the 3 assistant slots entirely vacant (think of the $$ savings!) and puts a bowl of rice on the chair next to him during games to troll the fan base, parts with a highly paid associate HC after 1 year and has that compensation scenario linger with downstream implications for years, has suboptimal staff composition, loses high profile / high risk recruits, loses freshman transfers before the first day of classes freshman year, and goes on 4 month vacation during spring and summer AAU circuits and fields a team of exclusively transfers.

I'm happy there has been real progress. I'm disappointed there hasn't been more. The lack of additional improvement would be easier to accept if not completely acceptable if it was clear the men's basketball program was running with max effort and operational efficiency. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it certainly isn't clear.

Perception matters, definitely in this sport, and while mistakes happen that perception coupled with at least some of the blunders in the first paragraph likely hasn't helped and isn't helping. If and until we get to some sustained success that perception - again even if inaccurate - matters more, there is less margin for error re: some of these mistakes, and it would probably be helpful if it seemed like basic things well within program's control (i.e. staff construction) was making things easier as opposed to potentially more difficult. More than enough external competition for SJU hoops to seem to be fighting itself as often as it appears to.

Missing on a projection happens, shifting the goal-post to reset expectations is frustrating, missing again on your own reset projection is borderline inexcusable. Rewind two years and there was a lot of chatter regarding the crucial nature of '18 class, which ended up being supplemental from a HS perspective. Focus and buzz then shifted to big '19 class, and with a lot of time to go unfortunately doesn't look like there is a tremendous amount of momentum currently. With continued open questions about whether SJU has positioned itself for max recruiting success.

We'll see, and even if not there are select few examples of programs around the country that are winning without quality HS talent. But Ponds committed to SJU almost 3 years ago. I don't think at that time there was any reasonable expectation that 3 years later he would be the only Top 100 player recruited directly out of HS on the roster. This is not a high bar to clear in 36 months of recruiting. Maybe an excellent year upcoming propels things, but until something changes on that front it's an awful fact pattern in a critical area.

The progress is great, but a key question is this staff doing everything in their control to have even more success than incremental improvement? On some level it seems like this staff is being afforded some of the flexibility and excuse me's that usually comes with winning, without having won. If and when they do I don't care much about any of this stuff. Until they do it's frustrating.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=295396]Another thing to consider is that all transfers are not created equal. It remains to be seen, but one might make the case that the quality of our transfer classes has been in decline.

2016 -Simon/Clark
2017 -Dixon/Keita
2018 -Wright/Carraher


How can you say that?? can you at least wait until you see the other guys play?? You certainly didn't feel that way until after Simon and Clark proved themselves last year. Just casting more negativity in an area that doesn't warrant it
 
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[quote="gonzalo" post=295371][quote="Paultzman" post=295276][quote="Chicago Days" post=295275][quote="Paultzman" post=295268]Bishop to LSU highly likely. Thus no Hatten effect.[/quote]


Any 'clue' on Dawes at all?
If no on Dawes as well, is DaShawn Davis our fallback?
Happy likes him, and looks pretty good from the clips I've seen, plus some building 'buzz'.[/quote]
Dawes may be possible. Davis has not received an offer & hear staff is not prepared to yet.[/quote]

I would take Davis now. Local, good student, teammate of Posh Alexander and it looks like he has improved in the summer. And we are in his Top 3 when we haven´t offered, so he has some interest in us.
If not, we will have to wait AGAIN to the transfer market (March/April).[/quote]

I agree. Davis is looking good. I think it’s the Hall and ODU who are also in his top 3. I think ODU has offered. Not sure about the Hall.
The problem is though, we have but 1 ’official’ schollie—but likely definitely 2 (Ponds), and very possibly 3 (if Heron plays, then opts for the NBA)—but that’s 3, with very key targets of Precious and Kofi still ‘possible’, and maybe Dawes, with Bouknight having committed to UCONN.
 
Las Vegas Review Journal, in their weekly local recruiting memo said Jalen Hill, 6-7 forward, and top 100 player, from Clark HS, will announce Thurs. where he will attend college. Stated he was a top UNLV target and had taken visits to Oklahoma and TCU. Worth noting that TCU's top recruiter was a former assistant at UNLV, under Dave Rice, and probably still has some strong contacts in LV.
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=295361]So what's the difference from having a transfer who sits out a year, practices with the team for that year, matures as a basketball player and then plays 2 or 3 years, from recruiting a 5 star high schooler who only stays one or two years max? Who will contribute more in the long term.?[/quote]

Very good questions, Al. I ve got no problems with transfers—we do it better than most—but the sit-out rule inhibits year/year player quality and continuity, so I think HS would provide needed balance and depth.
But, if as Richard says, the sit-out transfer rule will be eliminated—that is another story, but also would heighten risk overall.
Players can leave pell-mell from us as well.
Which again, makes recruiting HS players a wise strategy, imo.
 
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[quote="Las Vegan" post=295413]Las Vegas Review Journal, in their weekly local recruiting memo said Jalen Hill, 6-7 forward, and top 100 player, from Clark HS, will announce Thurs. where he will attend college. Stated he was a top UNLV target and had taken visits to Oklahoma and TCU. Worth noting that TCU's top recruiter was a former assistant at UNLV, under Dave Rice, and probably still has some strong contacts in LV.[/quote]
Oklahoma
 
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