New Graphic Identity and Brand Story

Joe,
I do not claim to be an expert in these matters or anything close to it. I do understand your sentiment, which I will not try to re-state since you've expressed it clearly and simply.

However, do you realize that if you are a living Native American (NA) born before 1924, you were considered a US citizen at birth Do you realize that in the early 1900s NAs were considered wards of the state, and their travel was severely restricted? This means that a NA had to obtain a pass in order to leave a reservation. If they overstayed the permit, the military was called to detain them and return them to the reservation. The civil rights act of 1866, defined by the 14th amendment, granted citizenship to all people born in the US, but excluded NAs. What an affront, to be denied citizenship in a land that your forbearers lived for thousands of years.

Roll this forward to the 1940s. Imagine being a heroic American in WWII, even raising the flag at Iwo Jima, and returning home to be legally denied hotel lodging, eating in whites only restaurants. Imagine that wonderful NYC communities like Garden City and Forest Hills Garden had exercised the right until the 1948 restrictive covenants which did not allow Jews, African Americans, or NA's the right to purchase a home or live in those neighborhoods. The after effects of these covenants exist to this very day.

Joe, imagine that you can visit your father's grave, your grandfather, great grandfather, and further if you wished to find and explore. But many NA ancestral burial grounds were desecrated without thought as America developed cities and towns coast to coast. It's no wonder then, when a well meaning white police officer on eastern LI recently found human remains while digging the foundation for a garage on his property, that Shinnecocks tried UNSUCCESSFULLY to have the property declared theirs to restore ancestral burial grounds.

NA's remain the poorest of Americans. Today there are 564 federally recognized tribes, about 2 million NA's in this country, and about 800,000 living on reservations. FORTY PERCENT of Native Americans STILL live on land to which their ancestors were forced to accept as part of treaties signed to hand over much of what is the United states. The land reserved for NA use, came to be known as reservations. There are 300 of those in the US today, meaning not all recognized tribes even own a reservation. Conditions on those reservations are often deplorable.

So, yea, it's very easy for us to say, "Hey, get over it. You have rights now. Join the ranks of educated successful Americans." If present conditions for many NAs contain answers, it isn't all that easy.
Click to expand...

I'm not totally heartless to their plight, they obviously went through a lot but to be honest everyone has a story. The Japanese were in internment camps, the Irish had "Irish need not apply" signs in the windows of stores. The Italians were considered non-whites until fairly recently and my uncle even had to change schools because he was called a guinea so much. Blacks were enslaved, whites were enslaved, everyone has been through adversity. To also clear things up, Native Americans may have lived on the land that we live on today, but it was never the United States of America. They never had their own country, in fact they didn't believe in borders...just general areas of land with different tribes who by the way were extremely violent with each other. The assertion that there were birds chirping and little Indian kids running around singing kumbaya until the white man came and ruined everything is just a load of crap. Many Indians willfully sold their land to whites from Europe and betrayed other tribes. At some point this country has to get over this stuff. We are talking about the 1800's and it's 2013. The only way to get over something is to keep it in the past. Sure, remember it always, but move on. Also, many people who live here today have families who only came over to America from the very early 1900's to as recently as the 1950's or 1960's and were still in Europe when Indians were being slaughtered. The concept of original sin (not talking religiously but literally) is so stupid, you can't blame unborns for what their ancestors might have done even if they were around at that time. The bottom line is, everyone has had a history of adversity at some point. Some people move on, some people harp on the past 100+ years ago. Quite frankly, the successful ones are often the ones who choose to move on.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to beat you up on this. I agree with your point that you cannot legislate success, you cannot correct past wrongs by throwing money at it, and you can't lift the fortunes of an entire ethnic or racial group by making things easier for them without one important factor. Afflicted marginalized people, whether African American, Latino, Asian, whatever, must respond with hard work and diligence in order to break out from the poverty or other social ill that afflicts their group in disproportionate numbers. I am guessing that is your point, and I'd agree with it.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point, yes. And by the way, saying "da white man stole mah land" is not meant to be "blackface"...who's the real racist assuming that was blackface? It's a sarcastic way of showing what uneducated people say. If you are white and male this day in age, chances are you have been blamed for everything the world has ever suffered one way or another. And even if no one speaks up, I know plenty agree. There are a ton of bleeding heart liberals on this site because only a liberal could imply someone else is racist when they are really being racist themselves. Bringing in black stereotypes when I said "da white man" is YOUR bias. You attached what you wanted to it, so that makes you the evil "r" word. Only racists make connections to race where there is none. How about everyone learns how to stand on their own 2 instead of blaming an entire race for everything? Anyway, I don't want to get topic (probably too late anyway), but yeah bottom line Redmen will never be used again.
 
One of the things I admire most about Jews is that they will NEVER let you forget about the Holocaust and they will make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. They "harp" on it, yet they are very successful and high echieving people. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As far as moving on, racism and oppression (economic and otherwise) still exist. Deny it if you wish. "Moving on" isn't as easy as you would make it out to be.

Signed: Bleeding Heart Liberal
 
Joe,
I do not claim to be an expert in these matters or anything close to it. I do understand your sentiment, which I will not try to re-state since you've expressed it clearly and simply.

However, do you realize that if you are a living Native American (NA) born before 1924, you were considered a US citizen at birth Do you realize that in the early 1900s NAs were considered wards of the state, and their travel was severely restricted? This means that a NA had to obtain a pass in order to leave a reservation. If they overstayed the permit, the military was called to detain them and return them to the reservation. The civil rights act of 1866, defined by the 14th amendment, granted citizenship to all people born in the US, but excluded NAs. What an affront, to be denied citizenship in a land that your forbearers lived for thousands of years.

Roll this forward to the 1940s. Imagine being a heroic American in WWII, even raising the flag at Iwo Jima, and returning home to be legally denied hotel lodging, eating in whites only restaurants. Imagine that wonderful NYC communities like Garden City and Forest Hills Garden had exercised the right until the 1948 restrictive covenants which did not allow Jews, African Americans, or NA's the right to purchase a home or live in those neighborhoods. The after effects of these covenants exist to this very day.

Joe, imagine that you can visit your father's grave, your grandfather, great grandfather, and further if you wished to find and explore. But many NA ancestral burial grounds were desecrated without thought as America developed cities and towns coast to coast. It's no wonder then, when a well meaning white police officer on eastern LI recently found human remains while digging the foundation for a garage on his property, that Shinnecocks tried UNSUCCESSFULLY to have the property declared theirs to restore ancestral burial grounds.

NA's remain the poorest of Americans. Today there are 564 federally recognized tribes, about 2 million NA's in this country, and about 800,000 living on reservations. FORTY PERCENT of Native Americans STILL live on land to which their ancestors were forced to accept as part of treaties signed to hand over much of what is the United states. The land reserved for NA use, came to be known as reservations. There are 300 of those in the US today, meaning not all recognized tribes even own a reservation. Conditions on those reservations are often deplorable.

So, yea, it's very easy for us to say, "Hey, get over it. You have rights now. Join the ranks of educated successful Americans." If present conditions for many NAs contain answers, it isn't all that easy.
Click to expand...

I'm not totally heartless to their plight, they obviously went through a lot but to be honest everyone has a story. The Japanese were in internment camps, the Irish had "Irish need not apply" signs in the windows of stores. The Italians were considered non-whites until fairly recently and my uncle even had to change schools because he was called a guinea so much. Blacks were enslaved, whites were enslaved, everyone has been through adversity. To also clear things up, Native Americans may have lived on the land that we live on today, but it was never the United States of America. They never had their own country, in fact they didn't believe in borders...just general areas of land with different tribes who by the way were extremely violent with each other. The assertion that there were birds chirping and little Indian kids running around singing kumbaya until the white man came and ruined everything is just a load of crap. Many Indians willfully sold their land to whites from Europe and betrayed other tribes. At some point this country has to get over this stuff. We are talking about the 1800's and it's 2013. The only way to get over something is to keep it in the past. Sure, remember it always, but move on. Also, many people who live here today have families who only came over to America from the very early 1900's to as recently as the 1950's or 1960's and were still in Europe when Indians were being slaughtered. The concept of original sin (not talking religiously but literally) is so stupid, you can't blame unborns for what their ancestors might have done even if they were around at that time. The bottom line is, everyone has had a history of adversity at some point. Some people move on, some people harp on the past 100+ years ago. Quite frankly, the successful ones are often the ones who choose to move on.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to beat you up on this. I agree with your point that you cannot legislate success, you cannot correct past wrongs by throwing money at it, and you can't lift the fortunes of an entire ethnic or racial group by making things easier for them without one important factor. Afflicted marginalized people, whether African American, Latino, Asian, whatever, must respond with hard work and diligence in order to break out from the poverty or other social ill that afflicts their group in disproportionate numbers. I am guessing that is your point, and I'd agree with it.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point, yes. And by the way, saying "da white man stole mah land" is not meant to be "blackface"...who's the real racist assuming that was blackface? It's a sarcastic way of showing what uneducated people say. If you are white and male this day in age, chances are you have been blamed for everything the world has ever suffered one way or another. And even if no one speaks up, I know plenty agree. There are a ton of bleeding heart liberals on this site because only a liberal could imply someone else is racist when they are really being racist themselves. Bringing in black stereotypes when I said "da white man" is YOUR bias. You attached what you wanted to it, so that makes you the evil "r" word. Only racists make connections to race where there is none. How about everyone learns how to stand on their own 2 instead of blaming an entire race for everything? Anyway, I don't want to get topic (probably too late anyway), but yeah bottom line Redmen will never be used again.
Click to expand...

Joe, in recent months I've defended your passion -- albeit over-the-top passion at times -- for St. John's basketball, but this ongoing rant of yours is, sadly, pathetic ... and with each additional post of yours, it only gets more and more pathetic. Please do everyone (especially yourself) a favor: put this "angry white man" victimization (ironically, the very type of victimization you seem to detest) to rest and move on to another thread. This board is about our shared love of St. John's basketball (be it Redmen, or Red Storm, or whatever), not about your rage against "bleeding heart liberals."
 
One of the things I admire most about Jews is that they will NEVER let you forget about the Holocaust and they will make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. They "harp" on it, yet they are very successful and high echieving people. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As far as moving on, racism and oppression (economic and otherwise) still exist. Deny it if you wish. "Moving on" isn't as easy as you would make it out to be.

Signed: Bleeding Heart Liberal
Click to expand...

I've never heard Jews complaining or talking about how people hold them down. I've never heard them say they don't get a fair deal. In fact, they are the perfect example that you can overcome the worst hardships if you just work hard enough and persevere. If you are still blaming an entire race of people for your shortcomings in life in 2013 for things from the 17 and 1800's then it's truly pathetic and shows a total lack of responsibility. Like I said never forget, but that doesn't mean going around like black hebrew israelites on the corner of MSG preaching about how an evil race exists that holds you back. Big difference. Of course there is still racism...no one denies that. But for too long it's only assumed to be one way. According to polls you will actually see that more whites feel victimized with the massive push for diversity and affirmative action. The pendulum is absolutely starting to swing the other way. I don't see why we can't just say we all went through adversity at some point and move on.
 
One of the things I admire most about Jews is that they will NEVER let you forget about the Holocaust and they will make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. They "harp" on it, yet they are very successful and high echieving people. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As far as moving on, racism and oppression (economic and otherwise) still exist. Deny it if you wish. "Moving on" isn't as easy as you would make it out to be.

Signed: Bleeding Heart Liberal
Click to expand...

I've never heard Jews complaining or talking about how people hold them down. I've never heard them say they don't get a fair deal. In fact, they are the perfect example that you can overcome the worst hardships if you just work hard enough and persevere. If you are still blaming an entire race of people for your shortcomings in life in 2013 for things from the 17 and 1800's then it's truly pathetic and shows a total lack of responsibility. Like I said never forget, but that doesn't mean going around like black hebrew israelites on the corner of MSG preaching about how an evil race exists that holds you back. Big difference. Of course there is still racism...no one denies that. But for too long it's only assumed to be one way. According to polls you will actually see that more whites feel victimized with the massive push for diversity and affirmative action. The pendulum is absolutely starting to swing the other way. I don't see why we can't just say we all went through adversity at some point and move on.
Click to expand...

Nevermind!
 
Joe, I can only offer up one piece of advice (which might even have been suggested earlier in this thread): what the best thing to do when you're in a hole? Stop digging...
 
Ignorance can be such a dangerous thing, not always bliss for sure.
 
One of the things I admire most about Jews is that they will NEVER let you forget about the Holocaust and they will make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. They "harp" on it, yet they are very successful and high echieving people. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As far as moving on, racism and oppression (economic and otherwise) still exist. Deny it if you wish. "Moving on" isn't as easy as you would make it out to be.

Signed: Bleeding Heart Liberal
Click to expand...

I don't see why we can't just say we all went through adversity at some point and move on.
Click to expand...

we all went through adversity at some point ................now, move on!
 
I thought I read it was because the student body voted down "Orange you glad I didn't say Bananas"

Maybe I'm mistaken.

Edit: Missed the quote button apparently but obviously this was in response to why Syracuse changed their name to Orange.
 
Worst thread ever..
Click to expand...

Are you surprised?
Click to expand...
I am surprised he gets this many chances.
Click to expand...

Well he acknowledged and played off of the fact he's been banned countless times. It's not for lack of trying on the administration's part.

At a certain point you just kind of throw your arms up in the air.
Click to expand...

So you'd welcome Scotch back? I'll have to send him a PM.
Click to expand...

I think he's back already
 
Worst thread ever..
Click to expand...

Are you surprised?
Click to expand...
I am surprised he gets this many chances.
Click to expand...

Well he acknowledged and played off of the fact he's been banned countless times. It's not for lack of trying on the administration's part.

At a certain point you just kind of throw your arms up in the air.
Click to expand...

So you'd welcome Scotch back? I'll have to send him a PM.
Click to expand...

I think he's back already
Click to expand...
Me thinks he could be the poster " Mr Glass "
 
Worst thread ever..
Click to expand...

Are you surprised?
Click to expand...
I am surprised he gets this many chances.
Click to expand...

Well he acknowledged and played off of the fact he's been banned countless times. It's not for lack of trying on the administration's part.

At a certain point you just kind of throw your arms up in the air.
Click to expand...

So you'd welcome Scotch back? I'll have to send him a PM.
Click to expand...

The others answered your question. But also its not my playground. I just play in the sandbox like the rest of us.
 
Worst thread ever..
Click to expand...

Are you surprised?
Click to expand...
I am surprised he gets this many chances.
Click to expand...

Well he acknowledged and played off of the fact he's been banned countless times. It's not for lack of trying on the administration's part.

At a certain point you just kind of throw your arms up in the air.
Click to expand...

So you'd welcome Scotch back? I'll have to send him a PM.
Click to expand...

I think he's back already
Click to expand...
Me thinks he could be the poster " Mr Glass "
Click to expand...

Bingo! I'm waiting for the large fonts in different colors as he tells us about who he ran into on campus.

Speaking of Scotch, I was driving from work and I saw Mase today. He looks like he put on some size. Looks much stronger. Sporting a mohawk ala DLo and Felix.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top