Mullin

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[quote="Chicago Days" post=280477]Players are said to read this Board. Does Staff? Boggles my mind, that Mullin was not on campus for Femi's visit. Femi O is our best shot for a quality Grad Big and according to Paultz has two 'other' local schools in the hunt.
What the hell...?[/quote]
And if Seton Hall is one of those teams, I can hear Willard telling Femi he'll develop him like he did Delgado. Meanwhile, we can tell him how we developed big men like ... Hmm, Owens? Yakwe? Sima? (Help me out here.)
 
[quote="redken" post=280555][quote="Chicago Days" post=280477]Players are said to read this Board. Does Staff? Boggles my mind, that Mullin was not on campus for Femi's visit. Femi O is our best shot for a quality Grad Big and according to Paultz has two 'other' local schools in the hunt.
What the hell...?[/quote]
And if Seton Hall is one of those teams, I can hear Willard telling Femi he'll develop him like he did Delgado. Meanwhile, we can tell him how we developed big men like ... Hmm, Owens? Yakwe? Sima? (Help me out here.)[/quote]

Unfortunately Red, you nailed it.
 
[quote="redken" post=280555][quote="Chicago Days" post=280477]Players are said to read this Board. Does Staff? Boggles my mind, that Mullin was not on campus for Femi's visit. Femi O is our best shot for a quality Grad Big and according to Paultz has two 'other' local schools in the hunt.
What the hell...?[/quote]
And if Seton Hall is one of those teams, I can hear Willard telling Femi he'll develop him like he did Delgado. Meanwhile, we can tell him how we developed big men like ... Hmm, Owens? Yakwe? Sima? (Help me out here.)[/quote]
LeRoy Ellis :)
Actually heard Iona & Hofstra
 
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Paultzman wrote: LeRoy Ellis
Actually heard Iona & Hofstra


And then of course, there's your namesake. Would hope we could beat out those two schools for Femi, although I am sure there is some non-local competition from major conferences.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=280541][quote="L J S A" post=280523][quote="we are sju" post=280466]

Obviously going to be perimeter orientated team. Perimeter players will be good enough in a weaker BE to finish at 9-9. Ponds comes back we go 9-9 in BE, Ponds BE POY and we lose 8-9 game in tourney.
Owens was a force on D and that will be missed. But we will have enough to make Tourney.[/quote]

This actually sounds like a crappy season. Losing in 8-9 game isn't good enough at this point.[/quote]

It is and it is and is and is not the plan. Lavin went 10-8 two years in a row and put 2 players in the NBA and was canned.

The idea that we haven't had an exceptional team since 99-2000 is irrelevant since Mullin came here precisely to move the program out of mediocrity.

9-9 and squeezing into the NCAAs in year 4 as a last 4 in and then falling back to 4-14 is not acceptable and he knows it. The plan is to take a big step next year and be fully relevant in 2 years. Next year can help in recruiting as 2019 is going to be big and can be big. How he does it is ultimately up to CM. Meaning does he tweak the staff, change his approach etc. But I can assure you he did not come here to go 9-9 and then 4-14 and SJU did not make a change to be worse off in 5 years.[/quote]

But sadly that might be what it is but anther regime change would be a jackass move Have to have continuity
 
Here's what I am learning. Chris Mullin the player is not Chris Mullin the coach.

Chris Mullin the player was obsessed with perfection and addicted to hard work. He could barley be restrained from the gym and put more grunt work into his craft than any player I can remember. His work-ethic is, literally, legendary.

Alas, Chris is not 19 years old anymore. He is a wealthy, affable good guy who enjoys the company of others and life itself. I believe he still loves basketball, but I don't think he has ever been passionate about the arduous grind that coaches live outside of 30 games a year.

I continue to respect and support the staff, but now through a less confident and skeptical lens. I sincerely hope Matt can bail Chris out on the recruiting trail, or that Chris comes to accept some necessary adjustments. ......Soon!
 
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[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=280521]NCJohnnie, to be fair though , you would also miss his frequent early in game 2 fouls in 2 minutes of play leaving him sitting next to Yakwe for 18 minutes ? [/quote]

To be fair, Owens averaged over 30 minutes per game this season, same as Bash and Marvin.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=280445]The only thing people should be worried about is Ponds coming back. If he does we will sneak into tourney and everyone can take one year off from worrying and complaining.[/quote]

That's it in a nutshell. I don't see him returning. Just a gut feel.
 
[quote="salty dog" post=280567][quote="fordham96" post=280541][quote="L J S A" post=280523][quote="we are sju" post=280466]

Obviously going to be perimeter orientated team. Perimeter players will be good enough in a weaker BE to finish at 9-9. Ponds comes back we go 9-9 in BE, Ponds BE POY and we lose 8-9 game in tourney.
Owens was a force on D and that will be missed. But we will have enough to make Tourney.[/quote]

This actually sounds like a crappy season. Losing in 8-9 game isn't good enough at this point.[/quote]

It is and it is and is and is not the plan. Lavin went 10-8 two years in a row and put 2 players in the NBA and was canned.

The idea that we haven't had an exceptional team since 99-2000 is irrelevant since Mullin came here precisely to move the program out of mediocrity.

9-9 and squeezing into the NCAAs in year 4 as a last 4 in and then falling back to 4-14 is not acceptable and he knows it. The plan is to take a big step next year and be fully relevant in 2 years. Next year can help in recruiting as 2019 is going to be big and can be big. How he does it is ultimately up to CM. Meaning does he tweak the staff, change his approach etc. But I can assure you he did not come here to go 9-9 and then 4-14 and SJU did not make a change to be worse off in 5 years.[/quote]

But sadly that might be what it is but anther regime change would be a jackass move Have to have continuity[/quote]

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am not talking about him being fired. I don't want to see that. I don't think it has to come to that. There is talent here and if the work gets put in and maybe a staff change a big 19 class could combine with the existing kids (most of whom are not seniors even with Ponds leaving early) could make 19-20 even better. But there needs to be some serious work by the staff.

The other point I will make is these very low expectations that have suddenly become the norm here? Really? That is why Lavin was fired so we could be WORSE then 10-8 and 8-9 NCAA game? Really?

I remind people of the MIke Vaccaro article a month ago. Time to make SJU great again...LOL

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

This part is what I have been saying for 3 years:

They’re a tough team in other ways, too, because if Xavier can reach this level, if Villanova can, there is no good reason St. John’s can’t, either.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=280584][quote="salty dog" post=280567][quote="fordham96" post=280541][quote="L J S A" post=280523][quote="we are sju" post=280466]

Obviously going to be perimeter orientated team. Perimeter players will be good enough in a weaker BE to finish at 9-9. Ponds comes back we go 9-9 in BE, Ponds BE POY and we lose 8-9 game in tourney.
Owens was a force on D and that will be missed. But we will have enough to make Tourney.[/quote]

This actually sounds like a crappy season. Losing in 8-9 game isn't good enough at this point.[/quote]

It is and it is and is and is not the plan. Lavin went 10-8 two years in a row and put 2 players in the NBA and was canned.

The idea that we haven't had an exceptional team since 99-2000 is irrelevant since Mullin came here precisely to move the program out of mediocrity.

9-9 and squeezing into the NCAAs in year 4 as a last 4 in and then falling back to 4-14 is not acceptable and he knows it. The plan is to take a big step next year and be fully relevant in 2 years. Next year can help in recruiting as 2019 is going to be big and can be big. How he does it is ultimately up to CM. Meaning does he tweak the staff, change his approach etc. But I can assure you he did not come here to go 9-9 and then 4-14 and SJU did not make a change to be worse off in 5 years.[/quote]

But sadly that might be what it is but anther regime change would be a jackass move Have to have continuity[/quote]

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am not talking about him being fired. I don't want to see that. I don't think it has to come to that. There is talent here and if the work gets put in and maybe a staff change a big 19 class could combine with the existing kids (most of whom are not seniors even with Ponds leaving early) could make 19-20 even better. But there needs to be some serious work by the staff.

The other point I will make is these very low expectations that have suddenly become the norm here? Really? That is why Lavin was fired so we could be WORSE then 10-8 and 8-9 NCAA game? Really?

I remind people of the MIke Vaccaro article a month ago. Time to make SJU great again...LOL

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

This part is what I have been saying for 3 years:

They’re a tough team in other ways, too, because if Xavier can reach this level, if Villanova can, there is no good reason St. John’s can’t, either.[/quote]

I've already stated several are lowering expectations. If you continue to lower the bar, then you'll always reach the goal or come damn close. It's all BS, if you ask me.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=280457][quote="Mike Zaun" post=280454][quote="we are sju" post=280445]The only thing people should be worried about is Ponds coming back. If he does we will sneak into tourney and everyone can take one year off from worrying and complaining.[/quote]

Even with Ponds back, who are our bigs? Keita and Roberts are supposed to be very raw. Diakate is recovering from a pretty significant injury and is an OSNA kid which means he's also raw. Yakwe and Owens left. We still haven't gotten any grad transfers. Even if Ponds has a NPOY type season, I have a hard time believing we make the tourney next year even totally healthy without a real assistant coach and at least 2 real bigs added.[/quote]

Keita will get 7 and 6.
That matches Owens.
Perimeter players will carry us in weaker BE. Ponds comes back and we make the tourney. If we don't Ponds should never ever be mentioned in same breath as Hatten again as the players around him will be better than Hatten's were.
Ponds back we Dance. Book it.
Following year everyone can go back to panic mode.[/quote]Unless someone gets injured. We have no depth that's the main problem.
 
What in the world is Mullin doing? The whole Owens fiasco turned out really ugly. The article in the Post did not paint a pretty picture of the culture of the team. Sure Owens seems like a jerk throwing his teammates under the bus, but I thought Mullin's comments (or lack thereof) in the press release spoke even more. Mullin seems to hold grudges and take things personally to the point of being arrogant. Everybody and their grandmother knows he could use help on the bench but i think he is too stubborn to allow it. I don't have much negative to say on Matt A since he seems to be doing his job, or at least trying. greg st. jean is somehow the X and O guy despite never coaching before. I dont know what Mitch Richmond does. Why not bring in somebody who has experience with X and O and who knows the local teams, to help get SJU back on high school kids radar. The apparent lack of effort Mullin puts forth in recruiting is disappointing to say the least considering his initial press conference where he would be all around the city gyms, etc. Seems like he is relying entirely on his reputation of an NBA great to get kids to come, which obviously hasn't worked. We seem to have no direction on what the future of the team will look like. Just grab whatever transfers are available seems to be the strategy, because we cant get any high school kids to commit for the future. That won't work either if Mullin doesn't even meet the players when they visit (Femi). At this moment, it looks like Mullin thinks he is doing the school a favor by being the coach. I have serious concerns about him being fully committed to putting in the time and effort needed to pull this rebuild off.
 
Just to give you some perspective. Danny Hurley hired Tom Moore, former HC at Qunnipiac and long time assistant to Jim Calhoun, Kimani Young who was with Pitino Jr at Minny and Kenya Hunter who was with Tim Miles at Nebraska. I show 3 coaches with deep previous experience on college staff's.

Pitino Jr replaced Young with Rob Jeter former HC at UW-Milwaukee who was just at UNLV as an assistant.

None of these coaches are hiring NBA guys with zero experience in college. I just don't understand his formula. Bottom line is he generally had the right formula when he got two experienced college recruiters in Slice and Matt. The Slice fiasco has had such deep repercussions.
 
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[quote="Storm Tracker" post=280665]What in the world is Mullin doing? The whole Owens fiasco turned out really ugly. The article in the Post did not paint a pretty picture of the culture of the team. Sure Owens seems like a jerk throwing his teammates under the bus, but I thought Mullin's comments (or lack thereof) in the press release spoke even more. Mullin seems to hold grudges and take things personally to the point of being arrogant. Everybody and their grandmother knows he could use help on the bench but i think he is too stubborn to allow it. I don't have much negative to say on Matt A since he seems to be doing his job, or at least trying. greg st. jean is somehow the X and O guy despite never coaching before. I dont know what Mitch Richmond does. Why not bring in somebody who has experience with X and O and who knows the local teams, to help get SJU back on high school kids radar. The apparent lack of effort Mullin puts forth in recruiting is disappointing to say the least considering his initial press conference where he would be all around the city gyms, etc. Seems like he is relying entirely on his reputation of an NBA great to get kids to come, which obviously hasn't worked. We seem to have no direction on what the future of the team will look like. Just grab whatever transfers are available seems to be the strategy, because we cant get any high school kids to commit for the future. That won't work either if Mullin doesn't even meet the players when they visit (Femi). At this moment, it looks like Mullin thinks he is doing the school a favor by being the coach. I have serious concerns about him being fully committed to putting in the time and effort needed to pull this rebuild off.[/quote]

Not going to get into another pissing match with you but:

1) What personal knowledge do you have that Mullin is stubborn?
2) What personal knowledge do you have that Mullin is lazy and not working?
3) Are you certain that Mullin isn't being instructed that he cannot augment staff until Slice comes off the books?
4) everyone is free to question his current staffing decisions of who he has fired or hired
5) Without calling out specific strategic errors, or who he played or should have played, to impugn in game decisions without backup is hard to justify. I don't recall a Max Hooper moment (when a bad decision was made to put Hooper in at a critical moment by Lavin vs. Providence)

I'm not attacking you, but my points seem reasonable.

I know for a fact that in many (if not all programs) the head coach does not bird dog and go on initial visits. They are closers. Coach K only shows up once to close the deal. When Cluess took the job at Iona I said, "Now you really have to work to recruit at this level." He said actually its a lot different. At Post he had to do all of that stuff from start to finish by himself. Lavin got killed on here for not being all over the city in gyms. Maybe he was lazy, I don't know. But also maybe he was used to the ways things work at UCLA, at Purdue, and most big program - where the head coach doesn't make initial visits, and basically once a recruit is interested, goes to work to seal the deal.

You may not realize it, but I was among the very very first people on here to question whether Mullin could coach even a lick. He seemed like a deer in headlights for a good chunk of year 1. I've been there, and as much as you think you know basketball, coaching is a whole different thing. But there were improvements in year 2 with Slice gone, and in year 3 Mullin ran most timeouts, and while St. Jean was always in his ear,, it was Mullin almost all the time who was interacting with his team on the court. I believe he's made the full transition to coach, but will continue to improve to become a very good coach. Mediocrity is not in his makeup.

I also like his candor. When asked about the unfairness of playing 2 BET games within 24 hours, didn't make any excuses. "That's what you get for finshing in 9th place". After 5 years of Lavin answers and 6 years of Norm ("St. Francis is a really tough team. They gave us everything we could handle..." I think that honesty counts for a lot. Not an exchange for winning team, but I believe we are on the right track.

It appears to me that St. Jean is out recruiting now, at least working hard on it, and following recruits on Twitter, which is a sign I guess. I don't really pay much attention to recruiting specifics, because I figure I'll just wait to see who is coming here since there's nothing I can do about it anyways. I'm appreciative of the guys that do follow it, and keep us up to date on here, like Paultz
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=280669]Just to give you some perspective. Danny Hurley hired Tom Moore, former HC at Qunnipiac and long time assistant to Jim Calhoun, Kimani Young who was with Pitino Jr at Minny and Kenya Hunter who was with Tim Miles at Nebraska. I show 3 coaches with deep previous experience on college staff's.

Pitino Jr replaced Young with Rob Jeter former HC at UW-Milwaukee who was just at UNLV as an assistant.

None of these coaches are hiring NBA guys with zero experience in college. I just don't understand his formula. Bottom line is he generally had the right formula when he got two experienced college recruiters in Slice and Matt. The Slice fiasco has had such deep repercussions.[/quote]

Slice was a big mistake, and I also believe that instead of Richmond should have hired someone w college experience. Two guys learning on the job seems like too much. I'm very happy with St. Jean and Matt, both who will have long careers with big upsides.
 
Beast -- i dont want to fight either and i am sorry about our previous battle. to be fair, i have ZERO personal knowledge to answer your questions. just venting my frustration at how i interpret the situation and from what i hear. TY for the insight on HC recruiting specifics (i am not trolling). though i did not want to hire mullin in beginning i was a big supporter year one, knowing situation he stepped into was a ridiculously barren roster. there are just so many negative things going on and have happened since year 1, the preponderance of evidence seems to point to the mullin experiment being a failure. i would love to be proven wrong, but i do not like what i see and hear right now.
 
[quote="Storm Tracker" post=280678]Beast -- i dont want to fight either and i am sorry about our previous battle. to be fair, i have ZERO personal knowledge to answer your questions. just venting my frustration at how i interpret the situation and from what i hear. TY for the insight on HC recruiting specifics (i am not trolling). though i did not want to hire mullin in beginning i was a big supporter year one, knowing situation he stepped into was a ridiculously barren roster. there are just so many negative things going on and have happened since year 1, the preponderance of evidence seems to point to the mullin experiment being a failure. i would love to be proven wrong, but i do not like what i see and hear right now.[/quote]

I apologize also for my part in that - uncalled for. I know you know the 114 guys who are all good guys, and that's good enough for me. I see it a little differently that you in terms of staff progression, am also not pleased with the season we just had (no one is and we didn't hear a peep from staff about being happy). Roster churn is almost epidemic in college basketball today - it seemed every NCAA contender had at least one significant transfer. For where Mullin started it's all painful because we couldn't afford a single defection of someone who could have helped us. Let's meet next season and have a beer on me at the Garden.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=280680][quote="Storm Tracker" post=280678]Beast -- i dont want to fight either and i am sorry about our previous battle. to be fair, i have ZERO personal knowledge to answer your questions. just venting my frustration at how i interpret the situation and from what i hear. TY for the insight on HC recruiting specifics (i am not trolling). though i did not want to hire mullin in beginning i was a big supporter year one, knowing situation he stepped into was a ridiculously barren roster. there are just so many negative things going on and have happened since year 1, the preponderance of evidence seems to point to the mullin experiment being a failure. i would love to be proven wrong, but i do not like what i see and hear right now.[/quote]

I apologize also for my part in that - uncalled for. I know you know the 114 guys who are all good guys, and that's good enough for me. I see it a little differently that you in terms of staff progression, am also not pleased with the season we just had (no one is and we didn't hear a peep from staff about being happy). Roster churn is almost epidemic in college basketball today - it seemed every NCAA contender had at least one significant transfer. For where Mullin started it's all painful because we couldn't afford a single defection of someone who could have helped us. Let's meet next season and have a beer on me at the Garden.[/quote]

sounds good to me. go redmen!
 
[quote="fordham96" post=280669]Just to give you some perspective. Danny Hurley hired Tom Moore, former HC at Qunnipiac and long time assistant to Jim Calhoun, Kimani Young who was with Pitino Jr at Minny and Kenya Hunter who was with Tim Miles at Nebraska. I show 3 coaches with deep previous experience on college staff's.

Pitino Jr replaced Young with Rob Jeter former HC at UW-Milwaukee who was just at UNLV as an assistant.

None of these coaches are hiring NBA guys with zero experience in college. I just don't understand his formula. Bottom line is he generally had the right formula when he got two experienced college recruiters in Slice and Matt. The Slice fiasco has had such deep repercussions.[/quote]

This is the problem. To me, it's extremely assuming (even for an NBA HOFer) to decide there is nothing to be learned from individuals who have spent their entire professional lives coaching college basketball. And when things are not going well, to remain steadfast, does appear thickheaded.
 
The school rolled the dice on a beloved legend with no coaching experience. It was a crapshoot from the beginning. I'm a optimist but I'm struggling to find the light amongst the darkness right now. Seems like they're grasping at straws and just reacting to things as they happen without any real plan. Seems like we're in another slow motion disaster.
 
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