Mullin

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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=284461][quote="Logen" post=284459][quote="Mike Zaun" post=284238][quote="Logen" post=284232][quote="Chicago Days" post=284229][quote="NCJohnnie" post=284217]In my view, we should be a little less specific in our expectations in terms of recruits. I think team needs to win 20 games next year, make the dance and sign a couple of approximately 4 star recruits for 2019. Would love for one to be Kofi, but who knows. Anything less than the tournament next year is a major miss.[/quote]

Hi NCJohnnie. Minimum win totals to qualify for the NCAA aren't written in stone, but 20 wins by us may get us in the NIT--not the NCAA. That'd be a major bummer I think and likely a recruiting setback.
I agree it's likely 'healthy' to not 'expect' to get certain recruits--but Kofi and JG are the two most-mentioned of our 2019 top targets.
This Board would erupt like Mt. Kilauea on the Big Island (Hawaii) IF we missed on those two and two very credible alternatives were not 'netted' in a NY minute afterwards.
Can you imagine?!!?[/quote]

This board is an anti-Mullin pile of unrealistic expectations now and has been almost since his hiring. Why, I don’t know. By any measure he has done a decent job but many here obviously think that his yardstick is one that some of the greatest modern coaches didn’t meet. The fact he inherited NOTHING and was COMPLETELY inexperienced means nothing. I would get the criticism if pointed towards his hiring but at the end of the day, he was hired. I will not post the basketball arguments I have previously posted because no Mullin haters will address them because they can’t but most people I talk to outside of this board think Mullin has done a phenomenal job in getting the program to a quasi-respectable level this quickly. I realize that is just not good enough for most here, criticism is easy especially when one ignores context completely.
The two criticisms I agree with are the hiring of Rohressen and the inability to get a big who could play. Emphasis on “who could play.” We have tried and struck out and depth matters, having a flexible roster matters. But the fact remains we missed LoVett last year more than a big and I wonder what the tenor of the board would be had he not turned out to be a quitter.[/quote]

Battling DePaul for last place for the past 3 years is doing a "decent" job? These past 3 years have been some of the worst in program history and they might even be a low water mark in the 100+ year history. If they aren't the actual low water mark, they have to be close. We all knew it was a big task but Mullin was given a grace period. The evidence is that he is in over his head, which is why there are national articles having him firmly on the hot seat. This is a competitive business...you can't let nostalgia cloud reality. We all love Mullin the player. We all love Mullin the person. But he has shown no ability to coach this program to the point of competing for NCAA berths thus far. What is the evidence you are going by to back your claim that he has been doing "decent"? Of course he started with nothing. But guess what? He has something, and he hasn't done anything with that something other than a few shocking OOC wins. No one is talking about year 1. He just finished year 3 and is on to year 4. You can't hide behind his first year when he was afforded honeymoon status. Let's talk about the here and now. The experiment has been an objective failure, however he has 1 more season to prove he can right the ship. I will wish him the best while also trusting my gut based on the evidence thus far.[/quote]

Again, still you and others don’t recognize or acknowledge any context to Mullin’s three years. You are the type of “fan” who would have looked for Jay Wright’s, K’s, or Calhoun’s job after a similar time span as Mullin. You offer the “battling DePaul” nonsense when all it does for me is show me how little you know about the game, program building, or just basketball in general. But don’t feel bad, this board is full of people with as little knowledge or perspective as you. So keep posting, I can use the laughs. It breaks up the monotony of trying to figure out how a staff that doesn’t recruit has a full roster.[/quote]

To be fair, I think the unrest is not an issue of being impatient about results. It's more about the perception of effort, strategy and the flawed make-up of the staff. I would guess Wright, K and Calhoun were not using the hands-off, unorthodox approach that we are seeing with Mullin.[/quote]

It's ok fan, I'm sure Chris thinks this his way can work.
Gotta show that it can in year 4.
 
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On the contrary, my belief is the 2 Wins over Number 4 Duke and Number 1,Villanova in a week’s time negate nearly the entire 11 Game losing streak . Not too many teams can claim that distinction . And , to be fair , I believe the 2 Coaches for those 2 Games were Coach K and Jay Wright. 2 Kings of the Court by any and all standards . I watched those 2 games closely , no where was the remotest evidence that Chris Mullin was being outcoached ! And, there were several games in the 11 game skid that , arguably could have gone either way , for a break or basket or not committing a awful foul , with the game won . I do hope and believe , a lot of St John’s fans and others know that Mullin was tasked with a very difficult job and took it only on the basis of trying to regain St John’s basketball at the behest of Lou C and others within the School’s Administration . Lastly , in my book , Chris Mullin because of his pedigree here , in the NBA and the HOF gets as long as he needs to bring our Program to the level we all want . Short changing him , is not what this University or its fans, Students and Alumni want . Live with it . It will happen .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=284543]On the contrary, my belief is the 2 Wins over Number 4 Duke and Number 1,Villanova in a week’s time negate nearly the entire 11 Game losing streak . Not too many teams can claim that distinction . And , to be fair , I believe the 2 Coaches for those 2 Games were Coach K and Jay Wright. 2 Kings of the Court by any and all standards . I watched those 2 games closely , no where was the remotest evidence that Chris Mullin was being outcoached ! And, there were several games in the 11 game skid that , arguably could have gone either way , for a break or basket or not committing a awful foul , with the game won . I do hope and believe , a lot of St John’s fans and others know that Mullin was tasked with a very difficult job and took it only on the basis of trying to regain St John’s basketball at the behest of Lou C and others within the School’s Administration . Lastly , in my book , Chris Mullin because of his pedigree here , in the NBA and the HOF gets as long as he needs to bring our Program to the level we all want . Short changing him , is not what this University or its fans, Students and Alumni want . Live with it . It will happen .[/quote]

Sly, those two wins made the season for me also, especially the classic Duke win at the Garden. However, that 11 game losing streak was ugly, no matter how we paint it. As far as Mullin getting all the time he needs, HOF or no HOF, this is a big business and hopefully he turns it around next season but you are setting yourself up for a major disappointment if you think the powers that be will not pull the plug should next year be a failure. Hopefully you will remain a happy fox next year as we all want Mullin to succeed.
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Your comments are well taken and i appreciate the civility with which you replied . Jay Wright was well into his Villanova Career , when in 2011-22 the Wildcats went 13-19 and 5-13 in the BE Regular Season . Mention is made because , even a great program can have a awful year . I doubt many Wildcat fans were calling for Jay’s head but, it is a interesting commentary . I share your hope for the 2018-19 season . Perhaps I am more optimistic than you about that but, we will see . I am almost 100 percent certain Ponds will return and have a Monster year , perhaps similar to Brunson’s this year . And, in my opinion , Shamorie outplayed Brunson in both, games head to head . DiVencenzo was another story as he torched us in his usual fashion. Have a nice Summer .
 
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Anyone who says they didn't love those two games is obviously lying. Anyone who says they can explain them is also obviously lying. That said to me they were like a birdie on 18 to cap off a round of 101. I'm not going to forget that most of the round stunk. My stepfather calls those scores whipped cream on poop. Tend to agree with him.

Now before Sly goes all in on my negativity, after the Figgy signing I am cautiously optimistic about next year, of course only if Ponds returns. But to say the last three years was anything besides an abject failure for me would be lying as well. I wonder if my being more critical has something to do with not being an alum. My fandom, while it may appear that way, has no reason to be unconditional. Hell, I gave up my tickets and moved across the country. My neighborhood school is now UCLA. You'd think after 20 years in LA I'd have switched by now. So at least you all know I'm just the crazy guy off in the corner babbling to himself.
 
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[quote="austour" post=284563]Anyone who says they didn't love those two games is obviously lying. Anyone who says they can explain them is also obviously lying. That said to me they were like a birdie on 18 to cap off a round of 101. I'm not going to forget that most of the round stunk. My stepfather calls those scores whipped cream on poop. Tend to agree with him.

Now before Sly goes all in on my negativity, after the Figgy signing I am cautiously optimistic about next year, of course only if Ponds returns. But to say the last three years was anything besides an abject failure for me would be lying as well. I wonder if my being more critical has something to do with not being an alum. My fandom, while it may appear that way, has no reason to be unconditional. Hell, I gave up my tickets and moved across the country. My neighborhood school is now UCLA. You'd think after 20 years in LA I'd have switched by now. So at least you all know I'm just the crazy guy off in the corner babbling to himself.[/quote]

Birdie on 18th while shooting over 100 keeps you coming back ;)
 
No controversy , austour. You said your piece . Civilly . I an sure you know Steve Alford UCLA Coach and Chris Mullin were teammates on the 84 Olympic Team and later the Warriors . Alford was a great shooter at Indiana for Bobby Knight. It would be interesting to have a Mullin - Alford shootout one day . Or, at least another UCLA- St John’s game at MSG. I recall Mullin playing against a Reggie Miller UCLA team back in the mid 80’s. We won .,
 
[quote="we are sju" post=284584][quote="austour" post=284563]Anyone who says they didn't love those two games is obviously lying. Anyone who says they can explain them is also obviously lying. That said to me they were like a birdie on 18 to cap off a round of 101. I'm not going to forget that most of the round stunk. My stepfather calls those scores whipped cream on poop. Tend to agree with him.

Now before Sly goes all in on my negativity, after the Figgy signing I am cautiously optimistic about next year, of course only if Ponds returns. But to say the last three years was anything besides an abject failure for me would be lying as well. I wonder if my being more critical has something to do with not being an alum. My fandom, while it may appear that way, has no reason to be unconditional. Hell, I gave up my tickets and moved across the country. My neighborhood school is now UCLA. You'd think after 20 years in LA I'd have switched by now. So at least you all know I'm just the crazy guy off in the corner babbling to himself.[/quote]

Birdie on 18th while shooting over 100 keeps you coming back ;)[/quote]

I was always coming back anyway. Though not nearly so much the past 3 years since I blew out my knee. Oh well.
 
One other thing to add about my lack of patience and understanding for the present situation is that my fandom started when I moved into NYC in 1984 and for the next 17 years I watched teams with at least 2 nba players on them dance every year but the Brian Mahoney period. I don't know about you guys but I just figured that Mahoney hire (clearly not qualified for the job) was going to be the exception, not the rule. The Mullin hiring is very similar. Both hired due to STJ ties, one had no success as a head coach, the other had no experience as a coach. It just looked like the same small town easy solution thinking which has left me jaded about the staff since the beginning and I'm still waiting (hoping?) they can prove that feeling wrong but nothing yet.
 
[quote="austour" post=284655]One other thing to add about my lack of patience and understanding for the present situation is that my fandom started when I moved into NYC in 1984 and for the next 17 years I watched teams with at least 2 nba players on them dance every year but the Brian Mahoney period. I don't know about you guys but I just figured that Mahoney hire (clearly not qualified for the job) was going to be the exception, not the rule. The Mullin hiring is very similar. Both hired due to STJ ties, one had no success as a head coach, the other had no experience as a coach. It just looked like the same small town easy solution thinking which has left me jaded about the staff since the beginning and I'm still waiting (hoping?) they can prove that feeling wrong but nothing yet.[/quote]

I was ecstatic with the Mullin signing. I knew there would be mucho OJT involved but was extremely confident CM would recruit like hell, planting himself in NYC gyms and establishing links to major NY Metro AAU teams.
For a host of reasons, including the emptied-out roster, the further losses of Obekpa and Jordan, and the failed-attempts to sign Sampson and Diallo, which resulted in a woeful 8-24 1st season, buoyancy was lost and the Mullin bus had a few recruiting blowouts, losing several major targets, including Adebayo, Atkins, Rowan, and Heron in 2016, the Zach Brown gambit in 2017, the aborted Sid Wilson commitment also in 2017, and Luther Mohammad in 2018.
I’m not blaming CM for not getting these guys. considering the collapse of our program over the 2015-16 season, and the resulting roster turmoil, and losing Sima, Williams, Ellison, and Mussini over the 2015-17 period.
I actually think it was a perfect storm of bad timing and bad luck that caused those fissures in our roster, with the Slice debacle a fatal blow to our recruiting capability.
I do think that these losses soured Chris on recruiting and, hence, further impeded our recruiting efforts.
At this point, perhaps a very successful 2018-19 season will revive Chris’s enthusiasm for recruiting in the years ahead.
I know he hates to lose at this game that has become his life.
Let’s hope.
 
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When will Mullin expect to get an extension of his contract?
 
[quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=284681][quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.[/quote]

You said "we'll have debt so no excuses.". I disagree. We have debt because of Slice's salary.:p The team on the other hand has good depth and I still think that a player change will happen.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=284688][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=284681][quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.[/quote]

You said "we'll have debt so no excuses.". I disagree. We have debt because of Slice's salary.:p The team on the other hand has good depth and I still think that a player change will happen.[/quote]

Didn't Mullin hire Slice? And if so isn't He ultimately responsible?
 
[quote="41ndone" post=284781][quote="Class of 72" post=284688][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=284681][quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.[/quote]

You said "we'll have debt so no excuses.". I disagree. We have debt because of Slice's salary.:p The team on the other hand has good depth and I still think that a player change will happen.[/quote]

Didn't Mullin hire Slice? And if so isn't He ultimately responsible?[/quote]

It will be resolved in no more than 3 more years. Have patience.
 
[quote="41ndone" post=284781][quote="Class of 72" post=284688][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=284681][quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.[/quote]

You said "we'll have debt so no excuses.". I disagree. We have debt because of Slice's salary.:p The team on the other hand has good depth and I still think that a player change will happen.[/quote]

Didn't Mullin hire Slice? And if so isn't He ultimately responsible?[/quote]

You guys are total hypocrites. There was not a soul on here, not a single one of you, who didn't think that out of the gate Mullin ate Calipari's lunch by snaring Slice. Is that Mullin's fault, or Slice's fault for thinking he was the head coach and not Mullin. I'm pretty sure Matt couldn't stand Slice either. Slice would have been sent packing by Cal if he behaved like that in Ky. And he wouldn't dare try it. Was it a mistake? Yes. Does chris own it? Yes. But don't think for a second that you guys aren't hypocrites because not one of you had a single negative thing to say when we "stole" Cals ace recruiter. In fact, only Cal knew we overpaid , because only a coach and his staff knows who is doing the heavy lifting in recruiting, and not a single one of us.

Respectfully, kind of
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=284784][quote="41ndone" post=284781][quote="Class of 72" post=284688][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=284681][quote="JohnnyFan" post=284678][quote="Manhattan1" post=284671]It should be NCAA or bust. If they do not make the tournament he needs to get out of here and fast. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

Mullin chose "my way or the highway". So, if this season doesn't work out......hit the road.[/quote]

exactly. Agree 100%
No staff changes, which means the staff is 100% fine to him.
No big man, so it's gonna be launch and a pray.

He want it his way? Fine. Lets see how his way works out next year, and we'll have debt so no excuses.
If he fails, I agree it's time for him to go.[/quote]

You said "we'll have debt so no excuses.". I disagree. We have debt because of Slice's salary.:p The team on the other hand has good depth and I still think that a player change will happen.[/quote]

Didn't Mullin hire Slice? And if so isn't He ultimately responsible?[/quote]

You guys are total hypocrites. There was not a soul on here, not a single one of you, who didn't think that out of the gate Mullin ate Calipari's lunch by snaring Slice. Is that Mullin's fault, or Slice's fault for thinking he was the head coach and not Mullin. I'm pretty sure Matt couldn't stand Slice either. Slice would have been sent packing by Cal if he behaved like that in Ky. And he wouldn't dare try it. Was it a mistake? Yes. Does chris own it? Yes. But don't think for a second that you guys aren't hypocrites because not one of you had a single negative thing to say when we "stole" Cals ace recruiter. In fact, only Cal knew we overpaid , because only a coach and his staff knows who is doing the heavy lifting in recruiting, and not a single one of us.

Respectfully, kind of[/quote]

Mullin found out after he hired Slice that he was a great recruiter because he was passing money to the players and their families. Kudos to Mullin for taking the high road, but that does not completely resolve him for being naive enough to hire him in the first place.
 
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