Mullin

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72, those of us following the offseason moves on a daily basis or hourly basis are not the real fans. We are in the 1% category - the fanatics. The real fans support the team when the season rolls around. They may check in a few times from April to September, but they don't post and they don't obsess over every perceived move or lack of a move. They are sensible, but will turn on this staff next season if the team losses. This is New York.

As for Lavin bashers. I remember a couple of them that posted hate on Lavin several times a day during the end of that final season. It was pretty ridiculous stuff. They are now panicking over this off-season and on are firmly seated on your wagon with the wheels falling off.

Beast is spot on about the record. It comes down to improving the record in year three of the rebuild. Mullin has to get this team into the top half of the conference. And I'm not buying that line that he won't be fired. If this team stays at the bottom of league he's gone - three years faster than Norm.
 
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[quote="OLV72" post=280977]72, those of us following the offseason moves on a daily basis or hourly basis are not the real fans. We are in the 1% category - the fanatics. The real fans support the team when the season rolls around. They may check in a few times from April to September, but they don't post and they don't obsess over every perceived move or lack of a move. They are sensible, but will turn on this staff next season if the team losses. This is New York.

As for Lavin bashers. I remember a couple of them that posted hate on Lavin several times a day during the end of that final season. It was pretty ridiculous stuff. They are now panicking over this off-season and on are firmly seated on your wagon with the wheels falling off.

Beast is spot on about the record. It comes down to improving the record in year three of the rebuild. Mullin has to get this team into the top half of the conference. And I'm not buying that line that he won't be fired. If this team stays at the bottom of league he's gone - three years faster than Norm.[/quote]

I think that true Redmen fans are akin to Mets fans--long suffering, loyal, and very grumpy partisans of an 'Amazin' ' tradition grounded on the beach.
In my humble view, Mullin will not be fired IF we again slog in the basement of the BEC--but the Admin will be emboldened to force changes.
God forbid we see that.
Because it would mean the passage of one more miserable season--and even with 'the changes' would condemn the program and our fabulous tradition to more years of irrelevancy and disrespect.
So, i hope and pray that Mullin 'grows' with the lumps, corrals a good Grad Big this year, fills some slots with sit-outs, and fueled by a very good 2018-19 season, pads the roster with solid 4* types in the 2019 class--beginning the revival of St. John's basketball.
Lets go Johnnies.
 
Mullin had his chance to make changes this year. It's all on him if he fails. Plenty of legends have been pushed out the door across the sports world.

I'm not in the doom and gloom camp and have confidence in this group and staff. The first year is a throw out. There's been progress the past two years.

Let's hope no more defections and one more piece is added.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=280980]Mullin had his chance to make changes this year. It's all on him if he fails. Plenty of legends have been pushed out the door across the sports world.

I'm not in the doom and gloom camp and have confidence in this group and staff. The first year is a throw out. There's been progress the past two years.

Let's hope no more defections and one more piece is added.[/quote]

Hey, b, i appreciate your position, but i don't sense the same impatience among decision makers as you do. I've been around them, its unlike the past 2 coaching admins.

Keep in mind imo that since then fh is no longer here, there is no Vincentian who actually is running things with the board at his disposal. We have a lay president who can be bounced at any time unlike FH who had to do something egregious, and did.

The sense i get is that there is finally satisfaction that Mullin is one of us, who wants what we all want, who has the values we all have, who came from the same neighborhoods we did.

He's not the silver tongued Californian, the unknown guy from Queens who talked his way into Fh's favor, the Divo Jarvis, the character Fran. He's one of us who achieved more on the court than any SJU player yet in person never puts that on you with an air. But its still there, yea an idol worship that is unshakeable, but our idol, the guy who did us proud. The guy who had a homemade plywood backboard nailed to the garage, who shared a bedroom with 3 brothers, no sprawling long island lawn, no summers the the hamptons or weeks at sleepaway camp. One of us. Trust me, after 25 years of uggh, it counts.

Should it? Some of you say, hell no. I get it, and i can't disagree fully. But i can tell you its real, and its there. It's your grandmother's lasagna or risotto, that to us tastes better than anything at Raos. Maybe it isn't, but all the same, if she's gone you'd do anything for a dishful.

No, Mullin will get more rope, and to me, deservedly, than other guys in his role. He doesn't want it, I'm sure. He doesn't want to be the kid who only made his CYO team because hid dad is the coach. No he wants to be here because he earned it. Not as a player, but with W's, and post seasons that count, and Big East championships.

For once on forever, i think we gave a guy who really burns for that more than anyone since Looie, and as much as Looie, because like Looie he went here and is one of us. There is no other college job Looie would have taken, and the same is true for Chris. I believe that if we get there, and i hope we will, that he will be satisfied in the exact same way as us, precisely. Because he is one of us.

It may be a mom and pop way of running things as 72 would say, and he is right. But in any family, and any family business, right or wrong, family gets the nod over any outsider. And right or wrong that's just the way it is.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=280984][quote="OLV72" post=280980]Mullin had his chance to make changes this year. It's all on him if he fails. Plenty of legends have been pushed out the door across the sports world.

I'm not in the doom and gloom camp and have confidence in this group and staff. The first year is a throw out. There's been progress the past two years.

Let's hope no more defections and one more piece is added.[/quote]

Hey, b, i appreciate your position, but i don't sense the same impatience among decision makers as you do. I've been around them, its unlike the past 2 coaching admins.

Keep in mind imo that since then fh is no longer here, there is no Vincentian who actually is running things with the board at his disposal. We have a lay president who can be bounced at any time unlike FH who had to do something egregious, and did.

The sense i get is that there is finally satisfaction that Mullin is one of us, who wants what we all want, who has the values we all have, who came from the same neighborhoods we did.

He's not the silver tongued Californian, the unknown guy from Queens who talked his way into Fh's favor, the Divo Jarvis, the character Fran. He's one of us who achieved more on the court than any SJU player yet in person never puts that on you with an air. But its still there, yea an idol worship that is unshakeable, but our idol, the guy who did us proud. The guy who had a homemade plywood backboard nailed to the garage, who shared a bedroom with 3 brothers, no sprawling long island lawn, no summers the the hamptons or weeks at sleepaway camp. One of us. Trust me, after 25 years of uggh, it counts.

Should it? Some of you say, hell no. I get it, and i can't disagree fully. But i can tell you its real, and its there. It's your grandmother's lasagna or risotto, that to us tastes better than anything at Raos. Maybe it isn't, but all the same, if she's gone you'd do anything for a dishful.

No, Mullin will get more rope, and to me, deservedly, than other guys in his role. He doesn't want it, I'm sure. He doesn't want to be the kid who only made his CYO team because hid dad is the coach. No he wants to be here because he earned it. Not as a player, but with W's, and post seasons that count, and Big East championships.

For once on forever, i think we gave a guy who really burns for that more than anyone since Looie, and as much as Looie, because like Looie he went here and is one of us. There is no other college job Looie would have taken, and the same is true for Chris. I believe that if we get there, and i hope we will, that he will be satisfied in the exact same way as us, precisely. Because he is one of us.

It may be a mom and pop way of running things as 72 would say, and he is right. But in any family, and any family business, right or wrong, family gets the nod over any outsider. And right or wrong that's just the way it is.[/quote]

@Beast of the East. While I have had disagreements with you of things outside of basketball, I do respect you as poster.

That being said, if what you’re saying is true about how the administration is running and wanting things done ( mom and pop, one of us mentality), then that’s a horrible way to run a Basketball program and a National University. I hope for Mullin success ( I really do), but that’s not fair to the university and younger alumni who may not have an emotional connection to Mullin or Lou Carnesecca.

*Again I’m not blaming you specifically.

For a university like ours ( notoriously cheap) we’re cutting a big check for 2 years of mediocrity. This doesn’t seem like a good way or smart way to run a program. I understand the appeal of Mullin, All-time great, high work ethic, Catholic, NYer, Irish, etc. But this can’t be considered acceptable.

And about Bobby. He needs to stop being a penny pincher, it’s costing us a lot reputation wise. But if what you’re saying his true he could get the axe at anytime.
 
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Beast I’ve always felt what you do about Mullin’s desire to win generally but specifically at St John’s. But assuming that is true - as we believe - how can you then explain the seeming apathy when it comes to recruiting and taking other steps (staff change, perhaps) that only can help achieve that goal?
 
[quote="Sju grad 13" post=280986][quote="Beast of the East" post=280984][quote="OLV72" post=280980]Mullin had his chance to make changes this year. It's all on him if he fails. Plenty of legends have been pushed out the door across the sports world.

I'm not in the doom and gloom camp and have confidence in this group and staff. The first year is a throw out. There's been progress the past two years.

Let's hope no more defections and one more piece is added.[/quote]

Hey, b, i appreciate your position, but i don't sense the same impatience among decision makers as you do. I've been around them, its unlike the past 2 coaching admins.

Keep in mind imo that since then fh is no longer here, there is no Vincentian who actually is running things with the board at his disposal. We have a lay president who can be bounced at any time unlike FH who had to do something egregious, and did.

The sense i get is that there is finally satisfaction that Mullin is one of us, who wants what we all want, who has the values we all have, who came from the same neighborhoods we did.

He's not the silver tongued Californian, the unknown guy from Queens who talked his way into Fh's favor, the Divo Jarvis, the character Fran. He's one of us who achieved more on the court than any SJU player yet in person never puts that on you with an air. But its still there, yea an idol worship that is unshakeable, but our idol, the guy who did us proud. The guy who had a homemade plywood backboard nailed to the garage, who shared a bedroom with 3 brothers, no sprawling long island lawn, no summers the the hamptons or weeks at sleepaway camp. One of us. Trust me, after 25 years of uggh, it counts.

Should it? Some of you say, hell no. I get it, and i can't disagree fully. But i can tell you its real, and its there. It's your grandmother's lasagna or risotto, that to us tastes better than anything at Raos. Maybe it isn't, but all the same, if she's gone you'd do anything for a dishful.

No, Mullin will get more rope, and to me, deservedly, than other guys in his role. He doesn't want it, I'm sure. He doesn't want to be the kid who only made his CYO team because hid dad is the coach. No he wants to be here because he earned it. Not as a player, but with W's, and post seasons that count, and Big East championships.

For once on forever, i think we gave a guy who really burns for that more than anyone since Looie, and as much as Looie, because like Looie he went here and is one of us. There is no other college job Looie would have taken, and the same is true for Chris. I believe that if we get there, and i hope we will, that he will be satisfied in the exact same way as us, precisely. Because he is one of us.

It may be a mom and pop way of running things as 72 would say, and he is right. But in any family, and any family business, right or wrong, family gets the nod over any outsider. And right or wrong that's just the way it is.[/quote]

@Beast of the East. While I have had disagreements with you of things outside of basketball, I do respect you as poster.

That being said, if what you’re saying is true about how the administration is running and wanting things done ( mom and pop, one of us mentality), then that’s a horrible way to run a Basketball program and a National University. I hope for Mullin success ( I really do), but that’s not fair to the university and younger alumni who may not have an emotional connection to Mullin or Lou Carnesecca.

*Again I’m not blaming you specifically.

For a university like ours ( notoriously cheap) we’re cutting a big check for 2 years of mediocrity. This doesn’t seem like a good way or smart way to run a program. I understand the appeal of Mullin, All-time great, high work ethic, Catholic, NYer, Irish, etc. But this can’t be considered acceptable.

And about Bobby. He needs to stop being a penny pincher, it’s costing us a lot reputation wise. But if what you’re saying his true he could get the axe at anytime.[/quote]

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I don't disagree with the way you feel. As for Bobby, i don't agree. He doesn't waste money, has tried to get rid of dead wood, and while very careful with expenses has spent on real talent to improve the university. Some of the initiatives are resulting in a markedly improved student body. Last year alone about 20 Chaminade grads chose st johns - the 3rd most popular choice among seniors last year.

If i thought of the sidelines mullin the way i thought of Norm (and in year 1 i thought it was possibly worse) id be (and was) among the first to say this guy doesn't have what it takes. But i think he has grown leaps and bounds. Maybe not fast enough for you and i understand that but a good progression. While 11 losses in a row was a horror, can you think of any coach who could have turned it around the way our coaches did. At one point there was talk we could get to .500 or close in the BE and get to the post season.

Thanks for a thoughtful post to an obviously contentious subject.
 
It will be a moot point when he gets the program over another hurdle next season and makes the NCAA.

I think it's success this upcoming season or bust.

It's become more of a business, schools are in an arms race and he's very well compensated.

On a postive note, over the past few days it does seem that our name is attached to several transfers and high school or prep school players. We'll have a better view of the future in the Fall.
 
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[quote="OLV72" post=280989]It will be a moot point when he gets the program over another hurdle next season and makes the NCAA.

I think it's success this upcoming season or bust.

It's become more of a business, schools are in an arms race and he's very well compensated.

On a postive note, over the past few days it does seem that our name is attached to several transfers and high school or prep school players. We'll have a better view of the future in the Fall.[/quote]

I admire your loyalty to Mullin, but what evidence has he given you that makes you so optimistic in the face of mountains of evidence that just the opposite is true? Any unbiased and objective person in the know in college hoops knows the experiment has been a disaster thus far. He was mentioned among the top coaches on the hot seat. That shocked some fans here...my question is, why?

I agree it's do or die next year. And btw when did it become an accomplishment just to be "mentioned" with good recruits? We should be mentioned with them. That should be granted. But it's not nearly enough just to be in the running...tons of schools are. You have to actually win some of the battles eventually. I never expect to get everyone, but we're not winning any of the battles for real impact recruits. With low standards comes the acceptance of failure and I don't want that to happen to us. We should not be comfortable with this.
 
Ok. We have a coach that has learned on the job for three years, all the bumps and bruises, potholes, premature player exits, recruiting flubs and successes, coaching staff shakeup, etc.

Well, he is no longer a new coach. He's going into his fourth season. His legacy as the best player in the history of the program cannot be disputed, but the time has come for Mullin to prove his worth as a coach, for which he is handsomely paid.

I think his in-game management has improved. His players play hard, but are undermanned. Get them more help.

The biggest problem now is his dedication to the recruiting process and the lack of a visible effort on his part which has frustrated the vast majority of posters on this site.

Kudos to Matt and St. Jean, but it is past time for our Hall of Famers to step up their recruiting games.
 
Nicely said by Beast but before you deem California Mullin a lifer remember Chris Mack coaching his alma mater Xavier to heights only dreamed about here now head coach of gasp....Louisville
 
Based on some of the recent posts, I'm cautiously optimistic staff is going to pick up a big for 2018-2019 and a transfer or two who can help us next year when we will lose any grad transfer we pick up, Clark and probably Shamorie at a minimum. I think most of the posters are in agreement that 2018-2019 is a make or break year for staff. However, I am going to wait until June to make any judgments on which it might be and in the meantime continue to root for our staff to succeed. Happy to see we are also getting visits with some key 2019 recruits. Certainly true that a visit doesn't guarantee success, but it is an indication they are working and can't have success w/o hard work. Fingers crossed.
 
[quote="salty dog" post=280992]Nicely said by Beast but before you deem California Mullin a lifer remember Chris Mack coaching his alma mater Xavier to heights only dreamed about here now head coach of gasp....Louisville[/quote]

I pretty much know for a fact that at this point St. John's is Chris' last job no matter what. I think he will eventually settle full time back on the East Coast, but that's speculation on my part.
 
The biggest complaint people have agaist Mullin is having primarily 1 recruiter. Mitch doesn’t recruit and many fans feel he is being stubborn for not hiring another assistant. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. It doesn’t look like we are getting another assistant. The perception is Mullin doesn’t recruit that much.. Mullin is going to have to start banging down the HS gym doors like he promised. If he doesn’t posters will rightfully continue to criticize.The first order of business is convincing a competent grad big to come here.
 
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[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=281003]The biggest complaint people have agaist Mullin is having primarily 1 recruiter. Mitch doesn’t recruit and many fans feel he is being stubborn for not hiring another assistant. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. It doesn’t look like we are getting another assistant. The perception is Mullin doesn’t recruit that much.. Mullin is going to have to start banging down the HS gym doors like he promised. If he doesn’t posters will rightfully continue to criticize.The first order of business is convincing a competent grad big to come here.[/quote]

I've said it elsewhere, but head coaches rarely bang down HS doors are lead generators, but often attend tournaments where multiple targets are playing. Mullin, as with all other high level D1 coaches, is there to close a deal once a kid is somewhat interested, not fly all over the place scouting potential targets. I would agree, however, that we could use a second guy whose primary responsibility is recruiting. St. Jean may be engaged, but his coaching responsibilities in season are second only to Mullin. As for Richmond,.....
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=281009]
I've said it elsewhere, but head coaches rarely bang down HS doors are lead generators, but often attend tournaments where multiple targets are playing. Mullin, as with all other high level D1 coaches, is there to close a deal once a kid is somewhat interested, not fly all over the place scouting potential targets. I would agree, however, that we could use a second guy whose primary responsibility is recruiting. St. Jean may be engaged, but his coaching responsibilities in season are second only to Mullin. As for Richmond,.....[/quote]

Agreed but Mullin did say that he was going to be in every gym in NYC which to me wasn't a casual remark but a reference to sentiments among fans and high schools that have been alienated by Jarvis, loss of credibility by Norm and pretty much completely ignored by Lavin. i.e. something devout fans were desperate to hear
 
Mullin should be knocking down ALL doors, not just NYC area ones either. We must remember that 90% of good NYC area talent do not want to stay here. If we want to be a national program, we must recruit nationally. Emphasis on the metro area is fine and understandable, but we need to look all over. For every Shamorie Ponds, there are another 100 NYC recruits who want to get away.
 
I will agree that it is not necessary for Mullin to be at every visit with recruits and almost all posters do not expect that but the head scratcher is what made him change from signing two top recruiters upon his getting the job which indicated how important he felt recruiting is to losing his main recruiter right off the bat and replacing him with a non recruiter.
Slice would have been extremely valuable in local recruiting as well as being an experienced bench coach to help Mullin. It just seems Mullin is being hard headed in not reaching out to Rice or someone with similar qualifications unless the administration is cutting back on expenses which I seriously doubt. The more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems. At least Mullin should tell a local reporter why he seems to feel the current make up of his staff is the best way to go.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=281011][quote="Beast of the East" post=281009]
I've said it elsewhere, but head coaches rarely bang down HS doors are lead generators, but often attend tournaments where multiple targets are playing. Mullin, as with all other high level D1 coaches, is there to close a deal once a kid is somewhat interested, not fly all over the place scouting potential targets.[/quote]

Agreed but Mullin did say that he was going to be in every gym in NYC which to me wasn't a casual remark but a reference to sentiments among fans and high schools that have been alienated by Jarvis, loss of credibility by Norm and pretty much completely ignored by Lavin. i.e. something devout fans were desperate to hear[/quote]

Kenny Anderson was going to go to Georgetown, but JT was not involved enough, so he went elsewhere.

A little closer to home for us, and particularly for me because I lived in Elmont, Zendon was 100 percent set on Syracuse, but BM recruited the hell out of him.

Mullin may not have to be everywhere, but he sure as hell needs to be somewhere when it comes to landing guys we absolutely need. So if he wants to pop in every so often on a 2021 kid and let Matt do all the work for a few years, that's one thing. But if we need a big man desperately right now, he needs to get his butt in gear.
 
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