Mullin Stepping Down

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[quote="fan5577" post=339313][quote="shamsman2" post=339281]Lot of opinions on who is desirable and not.

From a prospective coaching perspective, do you think this is a good job? There is a saying that "culture eats strategy for breakfast." Since SJU has a brutal culture basketball wise for 20+ years, I think this job is not desirable for a promising up and comer, better to wait, then come here. Has it always been the coaches fault, over last 2 decades?

curious to your thoughts?[/quote]

I think Cragg was the key hire. I think after the way the garden rocked last year and a full CA that Cragg could sell the right coach on this position. Who ever puts this program back on the map will have a hugh feather in his resume, I would hope the success and what it would bring would make the coach want to stay, but you never know. Like I said yesterday there is no reason we can not be a Villanova, a Gonzaga or a Xavier; are those coaches going anywhere?[/quote]

1. Everyone aspires to be a Gonzaga or Villanova. Is there a reason anyone can't? Well, no, but there are more than 300 schools who would like to be there.
2. Xavier? You do know of course that Sean Miller came from Xavier, and Chris Mack just departed last season for Louisville
 
[quote="Moose" post=339340][quote="dee" post=339319]It is all the doing of the AD cragg. He wanted mullin gone since he got here and wants to give the job to his buddy from Duke. Pitino is the one they should want[/quote]

Doherty quit his job with the A-10
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?[/quote]

That wouldn't be Repole dough, or Doh.
 
[quote="dee" post=339320][quote="fan5577" post=339313][quote="shamsman2" post=339281]Lot of opinions on who is desirable and not.

From a prospective coaching perspective, do you think this is a good job? There is a saying that "culture eats strategy for breakfast." Since SJU has a brutal culture basketball wise for 20+ years, I think this job is not desirable for a promising up and comer, better to wait, then come here. Has it always been the coaches fault, over last 2 decades?

curious to your thoughts?[/quote]

I think Cragg was the key hire. I think after the way the garden rocked last year and a full CA that Cragg could sell the right coach on this position. Who ever puts this program back on the map will have a hugh feather in his resume, I would hope the success and what it would bring would make the coach want to stay, but you never know. Like I said yesterday there is no reason we can not be a Villanova, a Gonzaga or a Xavier; are those coaches going anywhere?[/quote]
Cragg wanted mullin gone from the start. He wants his dukie pal to get the job to build his resume and then go elsewhere.[/quote]

You do not know that. Most on this board wanted Mullin gone based on what they perceived to be his lack of the ability to "coach" basketball, the poor staff and his lack of emphasis on recruiting. You can not say he wanted him out from the beginning, there is just no proof of that. In so far as bringing in a Duke lackie, the jury is still out on that let's see who he brings in.
It seems many times on this board people base opinions on rumors and or emotion and then act like it is fact. We sound like a bunch of politicians, repeating our own talking point over and over whether they are based on fact or not. If it is said enough times, with enough conviction, then it has to be true.
Maybe a few on this board know the story behind this, maybe you are one of them, I don't know. It just seems a lot of people are taking opinion as fact and running with it.
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=339314]Zach Braziller
NYPost_Brazille

Mark Jackson on St. John's opening and Chris Mullin: "I'm not going to talk, I have no comment." Wouldn't say if he has any interest in job. #sjubb[/quote]

Zach may as well just find Grady Reynolds and ask him, because he and Jackson have an equal chance of getting the job.
 
You’re right! If Lapchick didn’t fit the SJ image, n (Don’t tell Gus Alfierii) then Pitino would be somehere under Jarvis as a candidate for the spot. Maybe , they should consult the Vatican.
 
I am just wondering Matt A. was the nuts and bolts of the coaching staff, he recruited the players and handled many duties for Chris, why didn't the school make an attempt to match Nebraska money wise? Or exceed their offer?

Did Cragg want Chris gone from Day 1 of his tenure? Why didn't Cragg try to keep this staff together, fight for Chris to have Mike Rice on his staff?

Where did it go wrong?
 
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[quote="19854ever" post=341201]I am just wondering Matt A. was the nuts and bolts of the coaching staff, he recruited the players and handled many duties for Chris, why didn't the school make an attempt to match Nebraska money wise? Or exceed their offer?

Did Cragg want Chris gone from Day 1 of his tenure? Why didn't Cragg try to keep this staff together, fight for Chris to have Mike Rice on his staff?

Where did it go wrong?[/quote]

Two reasons:

1. Matt already hung an offer from LSU over the schools head to get a raise. Second time around, enjoy your new job.

2. I’m sure Cragg’s plan has been to not offer CM an extension, so why give more money and presumably a higher buyout to a guy with 1 year (max) left
 
During this last 2 weeks Louie has been ominously quiet regarding CM’s firing/resignation! This is Lou’s boy and he wanted him to succeed so badly! I wonder what his thoughts are regarding how this entire issue was handled? I feel badly for our beloved coach!
 
[quote="Enright" post=339295]IMO a major part of Mullin's failure to elevate the status of SJU basketball goes all the way back to the parting of ways with Slice who appeared to have the coaching and recruiting attributes Mullin needed.
Slice's departure left a hole in the high school recruiting effort which highlighted Mullin's adversion to participating in that effort. If he couldn't get along with Slice not replacing him with an ass't with similar qualities caused a huge problem.[/quote]

Slice's career coaching record, 58-95. Hasn't been able to hold any job for more than 1 year since. And we've seen quite a few guys do really well at Manhattan. He ain't one of them. Could he have helped the past few years? Likely, but the problems ran far deeper and the potential solutions more complicated.
 
[quote="austour" post=341770][quote="Enright" post=339295]IMO a major part of Mullin's failure to elevate the status of SJU basketball goes all the way back to the parting of ways with Slice who appeared to have the coaching and recruiting attributes Mullin needed.
Slice's departure left a hole in the high school recruiting effort which highlighted Mullin's adversion to participating in that effort. If he couldn't get along with Slice not replacing him with an ass't with similar qualities caused a huge problem.[/quote]

Slice's career coaching record, 58-95. Hasn't been able to hold any job for more than 1 year since. And we've seen quite a few guys do really well at Manhattan. He ain't one of them. Could he have helped the past few years? Likely, but the problems ran far deeper and the potential solutions more complicated.[/quote]

Coaching 101

Lesson 1: Don't hire your friends as associate head coach
Lesson 2: Don't hire your friends as special advisor
Lesson 3: Don't fire associate head coaches 1 year into a 6 year guaranteed deal
Lesson 4: Don't replace friend from lesson 1, with friend from lesson 2.
Lesson 5: Don't leave your staff short 1 position
Lesson 7: When you haven't coached at this level before, make sure at least 1 or 2 assistants have
Lesson 8: Assess your team's performance down the stretch before asking for an extension
Lesson 9: Learn the old sales adage: "If you're not out there selling, you're getting outsold"
Lesson 10: Quitters don't get severance pay.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=341854][quote="austour" post=341770][quote="Enright" post=339295]IMO a major part of Mullin's failure to elevate the status of SJU basketball goes all the way back to the parting of ways with Slice who appeared to have the coaching and recruiting attributes Mullin needed.
Slice's departure left a hole in the high school recruiting effort which highlighted Mullin's adversion to participating in that effort. If he couldn't get along with Slice not replacing him with an ass't with similar qualities caused a huge problem.[/quote]

Slice's career coaching record, 58-95. Hasn't been able to hold any job for more than 1 year since. And we've seen quite a few guys do really well at Manhattan. He ain't one of them. Could he have helped the past few years? Likely, but the problems ran far deeper and the potential solutions more complicated.[/quote]

Coaching 101

Lesson 1: Don't hire your friends as associate head coach
Lesson 2: Don't hire your friends as special advisor
Lesson 3: Don't fire associate head coaches 1 year into a 6 year guaranteed deal
Lesson 4: Don't replace friend from lesson 1, with friend from lesson 2.
Lesson 5: Don't leave your staff short 1 position
Lesson 7: When you haven't coached at this level before, make sure at least 1 or 2 assistants have
Lesson 8: Assess your team's performance down the stretch before asking for an extension
Lesson 9: Learn the old sales adage: "If you're not out there selling, you're getting outsold"
Lesson 10: Quitters don't get severance pay.[/quote]

Lesson 11: When you are the GOAT, your reputation can only go down.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=341854][quote="austour" post=341770][quote="Enright" post=339295]IMO a major part of Mullin's failure to elevate the status of SJU basketball goes all the way back to the parting of ways with Slice who appeared to have the coaching and recruiting attributes Mullin needed.
Slice's departure left a hole in the high school recruiting effort which highlighted Mullin's adversion to participating in that effort. If he couldn't get along with Slice not replacing him with an ass't with similar qualities caused a huge problem.[/quote]

Slice's career coaching record, 58-95. Hasn't been able to hold any job for more than 1 year since. And we've seen quite a few guys do really well at Manhattan. He ain't one of them. Could he have helped the past few years? Likely, but the problems ran far deeper and the potential solutions more complicated.[/quote]

Coaching 101

Lesson 1: Don't hire your friends as associate head coach
Lesson 2: Don't hire your friends as special advisor
Lesson 3: Don't fire associate head coaches 1 year into a 6 year guaranteed deal
Lesson 4: Don't replace friend from lesson 1, with friend from lesson 2.
Lesson 5: Don't leave your staff short 1 position
Lesson 7: When you haven't coached at this level before, make sure at least 1 or 2 assistants have
Lesson 8: Assess your team's performance down the stretch before asking for an extension
Lesson 9: Learn the old sales adage: "If you're not out there selling, you're getting outsold"
Lesson 10: Quitters don't get severance pay.[/quote]

St. John's Administration 101

Lesson 1: Don't let an extraordinarily loud group of aimless, hateful fans determine coaching decisions every 4 years through online screeds. (This same group is suspiciously quiet during actual games, remaining seated the entire game with their arms folded)

Lesson 2: When faced with a decision to renew or withdraw a contract extension from the SJU's only remaining link to success and glory at the behest of above mentioned fans (i.e. Mullin) please do so with consideration to the cumulative chaos that has transpired over the past 25+ years. Things to consider might be:
a) the inexplicable regression of Felipe Lopez, the most highly regarded recruit in SJU history
b) Fran Fraschilla's sexual harrasment of male players
c) Elijah Ingram's cell phone - which saved the team and University from massive rape scandal (and instead left us with a slightly smaller prostitution scandal)
d) the mid season firing of "Boston" Mike Jarvis & The Kevin Clark interim head cocah era: where the the team could barely bring 5,000 fans into the garden...
e) Paying players under the table during Jarvis era
f) getting blown out by teams like Fordham and years of embarrassing losses to College BB greats such as "Marathon Oil".
g) Five subsequent scandal free years of losing Norm Roberts
g) Progress under lavin (which wasn't quite good enough)
h) More progress under Mullin (every year he coached)

Lesson 3: these fans operate under the mistaken notion that they are owed something, based on some perceived historical slight. They do not realize the changing landscape of college BB, nor do they care that their vitriol and histrionics has now made another 3 year recovery period imminent.

Lesson 4: Throwing away an entire team and coach staff after a 21 win NCAA season would be pointless and unnecessary. The players coming in would have stayed and been competitive. The recruits coming in may have stayed and been competitive. The fans who fostered this change DO NOT speak for the silent majority of SJU fans who are sick to death of them, their advice and their sickening dedication to upheaval.
------------

I was looking forward to a decent year, perhaps a very good year with LJ, Heron and maybe Simon and Mack. A decent team by any standards - especially when compared with our own RECENT PAST. I was looking forward to seeing Tabor come in the following year. I was looking forward to attending more games at MSG with family and some ACTUAL fans.

This a demented cycle that needs to end.
 
And don't forget to NEVER repeat the SENSELESS idea of relying on ONLY having ONE coach on the staff DOING THE RECRUITING. A brief survey of 8 Div. I coaches from NY to California resulted in everyone relating that they had NEVER head of such a thing. Plus EVERY H.S. coach (over 15) from NYC, LI & NJ schools also say they had never heard of or experienced something like that. Oh yeah, make sure future coach remembers to tie his shoes before he calls a timeout.
 
NM. Thought better than to post my disappointment.
 
It was only about 1 month ago when Selection Sunday occurred. At that time we had:

- A head coach who is arguably the favorite basketball legend of both SJU and the entire borough of Brooklyn. A head coach who was perpetually ridiculed and attacked by fans on social media even while his own brother died. A head coach who did not miss a single game while this family emergency transpired. A coach who had improved every year and reached the NCAA tournament with a 21 win season. A head coach who would have likely never used the platform as a stepping stone, due to his loyalty to the school.
- A team that would have more than likely returned a very good core of Big East players (including Heron, Defensive player of the year Simon, and future Kansas wing LJ Figueroa)
- A team that had two quality recruits coming in successive years (Cam Mack and 4 star Nate Tabor)
- A team that had quality transfers including Valdir Manual
- A team that would have been competitive (if somewhat flawed) and an absolute miracle when compared to the recent history of the Jarvis/Clark/Pittsburg prostitute era.

But no. We had to "fire Mullin". Nothing else would do. Nothing else would satisfy a masochistic, virulent horde of online barkers - the vast majority of whom call this site home. This ritual - repeated every 4 years now - is only reinforced by callous, self important sportswriters whose only interest is getting clicks. They assess which way the wind is blowing checking in to sites like this and write something inflammatory to suit. Now, you can sit there and say that Mullin "stepped down" all you want but it is plainly obvious to all involved that he was a lame duck going into that negotiation. Which is ridiculous as he is:
a) the team's favorite son
b) a 21 game winner
c) an NCAA tournament entrant

All it would have taken was a fair assessment of our recent embarrassing past as compared to our current situation to realize that things were not at all that bad. But that was a month ago. Once again players, coaches and recruits are vacating the program like it was poison. Why?

Because it is poison. It is clear that a small but vociferous minority of fans desires upheaval more than stability, drama more than wins and accusation over reason. Well, you've got what you always wanted. There is little chance that these fans will admit their role in creating this unwelcoming, disdainful culture which drives talent away, ruins careers and creates deep, lasting resentments in the college BB community. And it looks like you all have toppled your last regime. Hope it was worth, because we aren't coming back from this one!
 
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If the program you like is making big decisions based on emotional and unstable loud fans online, then the program is not worth following.

I don’t believe this decision was made because of fans online. I think Mullin actually wanted to go. But who knows. Either way, let’s just see who they hire
 
Mullin asked for an extension he didn't deserve and then stepped down. He is trying his hardest to get paid the next two years. That, along with Slice, is negatively impacting our coaching search.

Regardless of who our new coach is, anyone (besides GSJ) would be better.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=342498]If the program you like is making big decisions based on emotional and unstable loud fans online, then the program is not worth following.

I don’t believe this decision was made because of fans online. I think Mullin actually wanted to go. But who knows. Either way, let’s just see who they hire[/quote]

I believe Brian W's feelings are hurt because he has to now shelve his Mullin bobblehead. Brian is more invested in Mullin than he is St. John's. All that other stuff he's posted recently is just noise and deflection.

If he says he's more for the program than Mullin, then he's FOS.
 
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I was and am a St. John's and Chris Mullin fan.

But to attribute this mess to the fanbase is not acurate. Fan sites such as this exist at EVERY school and many much more negative and crirtical than this one. Tha;'s a part of the terrain now, so if a coach or admin can't handle that, they're not fit to be in their positions.

I only wish Chris had brought his "gym rat" mentality to the coaching job. He didn't. The writing was on the wall long before Chris' brother was sick or critical (ie, several years ago). There were issues that he neither addressed nor seemed inclined to address (ie, recruiting, roster balance and stabiltiy, or college oriented schemes). In short, he was not "all in" on the job, and in this competitive environment, you need to be. He had a lackluster (charitable) staff that did not adequatley fill in the gaps.

So, while his leaving here (under whatever verison of the facts are accurater) was poorly done, it was necessary long-term. But it was also regrettable (the fact that the school is apprently paying him out the final 2 years leads me to believe that he was in fact forced out and that he did not leave on his own accord).

But the program was going nowhere and the prospects were not bright. Despite the several good points you pointed out, the fundamental flaws wiith his coaching style and energy were not going to change.

Notwithstanding all that, the execution of replacing him is a horrible embarrassment, in humble opinion. It not only further tarnishes the school's reputaiton, but calls into quesiton the leadershiop of the AD.

We will see how this plays out. I will support whomever is hired, because that's what I have done for decades. Even in the severely hampered state, the program gives me pleasure and enjoyment and entertainment. I only wish it could balance itslef and retore stabiltiy. Maybe the new guy will. Chris wasn't going to do that. Sorry to say.
 
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[quote="Brian W." post=342495]It was only about 1 month ago when Selection Sunday occurred. At that time we had:

- A head coach who is arguably the favorite basketball legend of both SJU and the entire borough of Brooklyn. A head coach who was perpetually ridiculed and attacked by fans on social media even while his own brother died. A head coach who did not miss a single game while this family emergency transpired. A coach who had improved every year and reached the NCAA tournament with a 21 win season. A head coach who would have likely never used the platform as a stepping stone, due to his loyalty to the school.
- A team that would have more than likely returned a very good core of Big East players (including Heron, Defensive player of the year Simon, and future Kansas wing LJ Figueroa)
- A team that had two quality recruits coming in successive years (Cam Mack and 4 star Nate Tabor)
- A team that had quality transfers including Valdir Manual
- A team that would have been competitive (if somewhat flawed) and an absolute miracle when compared to the recent history of the Jarvis/Clark/Pittsburg prostitute era.

But no. We had to "fire Mullin". Nothing else would do. Nothing else would satisfy a masochistic, virulent horde of online barkers - the vast majority of whom call this site home. This ritual - repeated every 4 years now - is only reinforced by callous, self important sportswriters whose only interest is getting clicks. They assess which way the wind is blowing checking in to sites like this and write something inflammatory to suit. Now, you can sit there and say that Mullin "stepped down" all you want but it is plainly obvious to all involved that he was a lame duck going into that negotiation. Which is ridiculous as he is:
a) the team's favorite son
b) a 21 game winner
c) an NCAA tournament entrant

All it would have taken was a fair assessment of our recent embarrassing past as compared to our current situation to realize that things were not at all that bad. But that was a month ago. Once again players, coaches and recruits are vacating the program like it was poison. Why?

Because it is poison. It is clear that a small but vociferous minority of fans desires upheaval more than stability, drama more than wins and accusation over reason. Well, you've got what you always wanted. There is little chance that these fans will admit their role in creating this unwelcoming, disdainful culture which drives talent away, ruins careers and creates deep, lasting resentments in the college BB community. And it looks like you all have toppled your last regime. Hope it was worth, because we aren't coming back from this one![/quote]

As you probably are not aware, I'm just about the biggest supporter of Mullin the person on Redmen.com, having met him for the first time when he was on campus for just a few days in 1981 outside of then Alumni Hall. Insofar as Mullin criticism, I've maintained that coaching strategy, staff composition, and recruiting deficits are all fair game, but draw the line at defaming his character.

You are getting repetitive and have to give it a rest. You've made your point, many times, and now are resorting to starting threads to get yourself attention. We get it. You aren't happy.
 
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