Mullin Stepping Down

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[quote="redmanwest" post=342506]I was and am a St. John's and Chris Mullin fan.

But to attribute this mess to the fanbase is not acurate. Fan sites such as this exist at EVERY school and many much more negative and crirtical than this one. Tha;'s a part of the terrain now, so if a coach or admin can't handle that, thye're not fit to be in their positions.

I only wish Chris had brought his "gym rat" menhtality to the coaching job. He didn't. The writing was on the wall long before Chris' brother was sick or critical (ie, several years ago). There were issues that he neither addressed nor seemed inclined to address (ie, recruiting, roster balance and sstanbiliyt, or college oriented schemes). In short, he was not "all in" on the job, and in this competitive environment, you need to be. He had a lackluster (charitable) staff that did not adequatley fill in the gaps.

So, while his leaving here (under whatever verison of the facts are accurater) was poorly done, it was necessary long-term. But it was also regrettable (the fact that the school is apprently paying him out the final 2 years leads me to believe that he was in fact forced out and that he did not leave on his own accord).

But the program was going nowhere and the prospects were not bright. Despite the several good points you pointed out, the fundamental flaws wiith his coaching style and energy were not going to change.

Notwithstanding all that, the execution of replacing him is a horrible embarrassment, in humble opinion. It not only further tarnishes the school's reputaiton, but calls into quesiton the leadershiop of the AD.

We will see how this plays out. I will support whomever is hired, because that's what I have done for decades. Even in the severely hampered state, the program gives me pleasure and enjoyment and entertainment. I only wish it could balance itslef and retore stabiltiy. Maybe the new guy will. Chris wasn't going to do that. Sorry to say.[/quote]

Agree with it all except the “ support whomever” but I have posted that caveat elsewhere.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=342508][quote="Brian W." post=342495]It was only about 1 month ago when Selection Sunday occurred. At that time we had:

- A head coach who is arguably the favorite basketball legend of both SJU and the entire borough of Brooklyn. A head coach who was perpetually ridiculed and attacked by fans on social media even while his own brother died. A head coach who did not miss a single game while this family emergency transpired. A coach who had improved every year and reached the NCAA tournament with a 21 win season. A head coach who would have likely never used the platform as a stepping stone, due to his loyalty to the school.
- A team that would have more than likely returned a very good core of Big East players (including Heron, Defensive player of the year Simon, and future Kansas wing LJ Figueroa)
- A team that had two quality recruits coming in successive years (Cam Mack and 4 star Nate Tabor)
- A team that had quality transfers including Valdir Manual
- A team that would have been competitive (if somewhat flawed) and an absolute miracle when compared to the recent history of the Jarvis/Clark/Pittsburg prostitute era.

But no. We had to "fire Mullin". Nothing else would do. Nothing else would satisfy a masochistic, virulent horde of online barkers - the vast majority of whom call this site home. This ritual - repeated every 4 years now - is only reinforced by callous, self important sportswriters whose only interest is getting clicks. They assess which way the wind is blowing checking in to sites like this and write something inflammatory to suit. Now, you can sit there and say that Mullin "stepped down" all you want but it is plainly obvious to all involved that he was a lame duck going into that negotiation. Which is ridiculous as he is:
a) the team's favorite son
b) a 21 game winner
c) an NCAA tournament entrant

All it would have taken was a fair assessment of our recent embarrassing past as compared to our current situation to realize that things were not at all that bad. But that was a month ago. Once again players, coaches and recruits are vacating the program like it was poison. Why?

Because it is poison. It is clear that a small but vociferous minority of fans desires upheaval more than stability, drama more than wins and accusation over reason. Well, you've got what you always wanted. There is little chance that these fans will admit their role in creating this unwelcoming, disdainful culture which drives talent away, ruins careers and creates deep, lasting resentments in the college BB community. And it looks like you all have toppled your last regime. Hope it was worth, because we aren't coming back from this one![/quote]

As you probably are not aware, I'm just about the biggest supporter of Mullin the person on Redmen.com, having met him for the first time when he was on campus for just a few days in 1981 outside of then Alumni Hall. Insofar as Mullin criticism, I've maintained that coaching strategy, staff composition, and recruiting deficits are all fair game, but draw the line at defaming his character.

You are getting repetitive and have to give it a rest. You've made your point, many times, and now are resorting to starting threads to get yourself attention. We get it. You aren't happy.[/quote]. Beast , you made some good comments but, think a bit harsh on Brian W... You said Mullin’s Coaching Strategy , Recruiting , Staff Composition we’re fair game for criticism and they were . But , the many who made the Mullin Bashing a Crusade over stepped the lines of decency ma ny times over . And , in the most offensive ways . You rightly took a stand against those personal attacks and wound up being a target yourself .. The Recruiting for High School Players was legitimately not good . But , other than Lavin’s first class of DLO, Harkless , Pointer, etc ., he had great difficulty in getting any top level local or other areas kids to come here , with few exception . I also don’t give Steve a lot of credit for Jordan or Obepka for obvious reasons . And , Steve missed on the Delgado’s , Rodriguez , etc who wound up at SH . Many fans here tout the idea that NYC , MSG , etc are magnets to attract kids to come here . Certainly , under both Lavin and Mullin that hasn’t happened . True , the Transfers and Juco came but , not the 4-5 star High School kid . No one really factored in that with Ponds, Clark and Simon in place , there wasn’t going to be a lot of PT available for a couple of seasons and the 4-5 star player wants PT from minute 1 . Look at Quinerly for Nova , a McD AA and he could not crack the Nova lineup with Booth and Gillespie . He got pissed, said a few things he shouldn’t have and owned a seat on Wright’s bench for most of the season . Now he’s gone . So , my point is getting the Prime Recruit to Utopia Parkway wasn’t just a Mullin or Lavin failure but , dates back to Norm’s era here as well . And , wasn’t Slice suppose to be the Blue Chip recruiter ? But , didn’t deliver a one , even in his short time here . Anyway , I think any Coach , Mullin included , would have been offended by much of the personal crap that was directed his way by a number of posters here . Far too many , were over the line . One would have thought the best Player in St John’s history was due more courtesy than he ever got on this site .
 
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[quote="Brian W." post=342495]It was only about 1 month ago when Selection Sunday occurred. At that time we had:

- A head coach who is arguably the favorite basketball legend of both SJU and the entire borough of Brooklyn. A head coach who was perpetually ridiculed and attacked by fans on social media even while his own brother died. A head coach who did not miss a single game while this family emergency transpired. A coach who had improved every year and reached the NCAA tournament with a 21 win season. A head coach who would have likely never used the platform as a stepping stone, due to his loyalty to the school.
- A team that would have more than likely returned a very good core of Big East players (including Heron, Defensive player of the year Simon, and future Kansas wing LJ Figueroa)
- A team that had two quality recruits coming in successive years (Cam Mack and 4 star Nate Tabor)
- A team that had quality transfers including Valdir Manual
- A team that would have been competitive (if somewhat flawed) and an absolute miracle when compared to the recent history of the Jarvis/Clark/Pittsburg prostitute era.

But no. We had to "fire Mullin". Nothing else would do. Nothing else would satisfy a masochistic, virulent horde of online barkers - the vast majority of whom call this site home. This ritual - repeated every 4 years now - is only reinforced by callous, self important sportswriters whose only interest is getting clicks. They assess which way the wind is blowing checking in to sites like this and write something inflammatory to suit. Now, you can sit there and say that Mullin "stepped down" all you want but it is plainly obvious to all involved that he was a lame duck going into that negotiation. Which is ridiculous as he is:
a) the team's favorite son
b) a 21 game winner
c) an NCAA tournament entrant

All it would have taken was a fair assessment of our recent embarrassing past as compared to our current situation to realize that things were not at all that bad. But that was a month ago. Once again players, coaches and recruits are vacating the program like it was poison. Why?

Because it is poison. It is clear that a small but vociferous minority of fans desires upheaval more than stability, drama more than wins and accusation over reason. Well, you've got what you always wanted. There is little chance that these fans will admit their role in creating this unwelcoming, disdainful culture which drives talent away, ruins careers and creates deep, lasting resentments in the college BB community. And it looks like you all have toppled your last regime. Hope it was worth, because we aren't coming back from this one![/quote]

Ok...so if I got you right...a couple of dozen fans on a website are are responsible for destroying the nirvana than had been constructed by our last coach...or something like that.

I don't really have the time to take on most of the absurdities in that post, but I'd like you to answer one question for me so I can see how seriously your points should be considered:

If everything was so rosy a month ago, and this program was in such great shape and under such proficient management by our former coach, why is Matt A. in Nebraska and not in Queens?

4 years ago, Matt left the coach he works for today in order to come home, work for his idol, in his dream job at his alma mater. He was in charge of recruiting and was one of the more highly paid assistants in the league. Why the quick exit for the safety of a life raft that isn't a better opportunity?
 
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[quote="SJUFAN2" post=342555][quote="Brian W." post=342495]It was only about 1 month ago when Selection Sunday occurred. At that time we had:

- A head coach who is arguably the favorite basketball legend of both SJU and the entire borough of Brooklyn. A head coach who was perpetually ridiculed and attacked by fans on social media even while his own brother died. A head coach who did not miss a single game while this family emergency transpired. A coach who had improved every year and reached the NCAA tournament with a 21 win season. A head coach who would have likely never used the platform as a stepping stone, due to his loyalty to the school.
- A team that would have more than likely returned a very good core of Big East players (including Heron, Defensive player of the year Simon, and future Kansas wing LJ Figueroa)
- A team that had two quality recruits coming in successive years (Cam Mack and 4 star Nate Tabor)
- A team that had quality transfers including Valdir Manual
- A team that would have been competitive (if somewhat flawed) and an absolute miracle when compared to the recent history of the Jarvis/Clark/Pittsburg prostitute era.

But no. We had to "fire Mullin". Nothing else would do. Nothing else would satisfy a masochistic, virulent horde of online barkers - the vast majority of whom call this site home. This ritual - repeated every 4 years now - is only reinforced by callous, self important sportswriters whose only interest is getting clicks. They assess which way the wind is blowing checking in to sites like this and write something inflammatory to suit. Now, you can sit there and say that Mullin "stepped down" all you want but it is plainly obvious to all involved that he was a lame duck going into that negotiation. Which is ridiculous as he is:
a) the team's favorite son
b) a 21 game winner
c) an NCAA tournament entrant

All it would have taken was a fair assessment of our recent embarrassing past as compared to our current situation to realize that things were not at all that bad. But that was a month ago. Once again players, coaches and recruits are vacating the program like it was poison. Why?

Because it is poison. It is clear that a small but vociferous minority of fans desires upheaval more than stability, drama more than wins and accusation over reason. Well, you've got what you always wanted. There is little chance that these fans will admit their role in creating this unwelcoming, disdainful culture which drives talent away, ruins careers and creates deep, lasting resentments in the college BB community. And it looks like you all have toppled your last regime. Hope it was worth, because we aren't coming back from this one![/quote]

Ok...so if I got you right...a couple of dozen fans on a website are are responsible for destroying the nirvana than had been constructed by our last coach...or something like that.

I don't really have the time to take on most of the absurdities in that post, but I'd like you to answer one question for me so I can see how seriously your points should be considered:

If everything was so rosy a month ago, and this program was in such great shape and under such proficient management by our former coach, why is Matt A. in Nebraska and not in Queens?

4 years ago, Matt left the coach he works for today in order to come home, work for his idol, in his dream job at his alma mater. He was in charge of recruiting and was one of the more highly paid assistants in the league. Why the quick exit for the safety of a life raft that isn't a better opportunity?[/quote]. First , do you really think Matt will have great success at Nebraska , a FB School . Sure he’ll continue to get the unhappy Transfer kid who isn t getting PT at the school he originally selected and wants a new home . The transfer market in College BB is booming .,I think a couple of things gave impetus to Matt Leaving . One , he knew Mullin wasn’t going to stick around or , second knowing Hoiberg would pay him more money to go to Lincoln . , Nebraska . I don’t think Matt would have left Mullin otherwise .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=342543] Beast , you made some good comments but, think a bit harsh on Brian W... You said Mullin’s Coaching Strategy , Recruiting , Staff Composition we’re fair game for criticism and they were . But , the many who made the Mullin Bashing a Crusade over stepped the lines of decency ma ny times over . And , in the most offensive ways . You rightly took a stand against those personal attacks and wound up being a target yourself .. The Recruiting for High School Players was legitimately not good . But , other than Lavin’s first class of DLO, Harkless , Pointer, etc ., he had great difficulty in getting any top level local or other areas kids to come here , with few exception . I also don’t give Steve a lot of credit for Jordan or Obepka for obvious reasons . And , Steve missed on the Delgado’s , Rodriguez , etc who wound up at SH . Many fans here tout the idea that NYC , MSG , etc are magnets to attract kids to come here . Certainly , under both Lavin and Mullin that hasn’t happened . True , the Transfers and Juco came but , not the 4-5 star High School kid . No one really factored in that with Ponds, Clark and Simon in place , there wasn’t going to be a lot of PT available for a couple of seasons and the 4-5 star player wants PT from minute 1 . Look at Quinerly for Nova , a McD AA and he could not crack the Nova lineup with Booth and Gillespie . He got pissed, said a few things he shouldn’t have and owned a seat on Wright’s bench for most of the season . Now he’s gone . So , my point is getting the Prime Recruit to Utopia Parkway wasn’t just a Mullin or Lavin failure but , dates back to Norm’s era here as well . And , wasn’t Slice suppose to be the Blue Chip recruiter ? But , didn’t deliver a one , even in his short time here . Anyway , I think any Coach , Mullin included , would have been offended by much of the personal crap that was directed his way by a number of posters here . Far too many , were over the line . One would have thought the best Player in St John’s history was due more courtesy than he ever got on this site .[/quote]

:woohoo:
 
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I'm gonna get backlash here, but I'm ready.

I serious think that sju should go the way of nyu.
I mean.we are no way a div.I school.
We got IDIOT'S in charge, it amazes me.
We booted oliva from the ad role because he was garbage, we get a guy from Duke, who we think is the real deal.
So he does the search, he supposed to be making the call for the new coach. Now we're finding iut that the former ad has more influence than the current ad??
Are you freaking crapping me?
So why fire oliva? Why get cragg, to use a scapegoat?

Why would cragg put up with this joke of a school?
Gotta wonder why we have been a nothing school for the last 20yrs. Why are these coaches turning us down? Yeah, i wonder why too.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=342579]I'm gonna get backlash here, but I'm ready.

I serious think that sju should go the way of nyu.
I mean.we are no way a div.I school.
We got IDIOT'S in charge, it amazes me.
We booted oliva from the ad role because he was garbage, we get a guy from Duke, who we think is the real deal.
So he does the search, he supposed to be making the call for the new coach. Now we're finding iut that the former ad has more influence than the current ad??
Are you freaking crapping me?
So why fire oliva? Why get cragg, to use a scapegoat?

Why would cragg put up with this joke of a school?
Gotta wonder why we have been a nothing school for the last 20yrs. Why are these coaches turning us down? Yeah, i wonder why too.[/quote]
So true. Sad.
 
We all love this program and have spent so much time rooting and cheering for the teams over the years.

I know we are all very frustrated with the coaching search. I will be watching from a distance until this program shows it deserves more monetary support. I will always root for them but I will keep a little distance for a little bit. I think I’m drained from having my absolute idol be hired and then it fall apart.

How many people have been turned off by this current process and why?
 
[quote="djramps" post=342606]We all love this program and have spent so much time rooting and cheering for the teams over the years.

I know we are all very frustrated with the coaching search. I will be watching from a distance until this program shows it deserves more monetary support. I will always root for them but I will keep a little distance for a little bit. I think I’m drained from having my absolute idol be hired and then it fall apart.

How many people have been turned off by this current process and why?[/quote]

I look forward to this every 4-5 years!
 
[quote="stjohnnie75" post=342613][quote="djramps" post=342606]We all love this program and have spent so much time rooting and cheering for the teams over the years.

I know we are all very frustrated with the coaching search. I will be watching from a distance until this program shows it deserves more monetary support. I will always root for them but I will keep a little distance for a little bit. I think I’m drained from having my absolute idol be hired and then it fall apart.

How many people have been turned off by this current process and why?[/quote]

I look forward to this every 4-5 years![/quote]

Ha ha seems like the usual timeline
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=342565] First , do you really think Matt will have great success at Nebraska , a FB School . Sure he’ll continue to get the unhappy Transfer kid who isn t getting PT at the school he originally selected and wants a new home . The transfer market in College BB is booming .,I think a couple of things gave impetus to Matt Leaving . One , he knew Mullin wasn’t going to stick around or , second knowing Hoiberg would pay him more money to go to Lincoln . , Nebraska . I don’t think Matt would have left Mullin otherwise .[/quote]

That's the point. He took a lateral move because despite having the keys to the kingdom, he could see the disaster on the horizon.

What does that tell you about the job Mullin was doing? That a kid who had his dream job with a HUGE salary bailed on his idol and alma mater for a lateral move in the middle of nowhere?

If you think we are where we are today because of a handful of fans who complained about the very things that drove Matt to bail on Mullin, then I can't help you.
 
This is one of the saddest and most laugh worthy posts I have ever read on this site. The site and its posters have exactly zero impact (NONE) on the running of the program. SJU Administration is solely responsible for doing its best to kill the golden goose. Sad but true.
 
[hide][/hide][quote="MJDinkins" post=342505][quote="Jack Williams" post=342498]If the program you like is making big decisions based on emotional and unstable loud fans online, then the program is not worth following.

I don’t believe this decision was made because of fans online. I think Mullin actually wanted to go. But who knows. Either way, let’s just see who they hire[/quote]

I believe Brian W's feelings are hurt because he has to now shelve his Mullin bobblehead. Brian is more invested in Mullin than he is St. John's. All that other stuff he's posted recently is just noise and deflection.

If he says he's more for the program than Mullin, then he's FOS.[/quote]. You are a decades long demeanor of people and while you have your posse of supporters , you are the one FOS! You are not qualified to comment on Brian’s feelings but , as usual you take the cheapest of shots. How you have gotten away with your BS all these years is baffling . If you have something to say about the Program , say it . Don’t pretend to think your opinions are any more important than any one else’s . But , stuff your cheap shots , it’s not productive to anyone but , you .
 
The higher ups.

Clean house or keep them

I'm a nobody, but you alumni has a voice with your donations, the student body has a voice, the professors could unite and demand change. If theres no professors to teach then there cant be class

Are you fine with the last 20years? Well if you do nothing then the next 20yrs .

SPEAK UP IF YOU ARE SICK OF THIS TRASH.
 
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[quote="danfog" post=342601]This is the league we should join when they throw us out of the Big East[/quote]

Top contribution
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=342718][quote="MJDinkins" post=342505][quote="Jack Williams" post=342498]If the program you like is making big decisions based on emotional and unstable loud fans online, then the program is not worth following.

I don’t believe this decision was made because of fans online. I think Mullin actually wanted to go. But who knows. Either way, let’s just see who they hire[/quote]

I believe Brian W's feelings are hurt because he has to now shelve his Mullin bobblehead. Brian is more invested in Mullin than he is St. John's. All that other stuff he's posted recently is just noise and deflection.

If he says he's more for the program than Mullin, then he's FOS.[/quote]. You are a decades long demeanor of people and while you have your posse of supporters , you are the one FOS! You are not qualified to comment on Brian’s feelings but , as usual you take the cheapest of shots. How you have gotten away with your BS all these years is baffling . If you have something to say about the Program , say it . Don’t pretend to think your opinions are any more important than any one else’s . But , stuff your cheap shots , it’s not productive to anyone but , you .[/quote]

This is what I think of you and all of your posts....

[attachment=866]85248c380950cdda62e38644133757b1--sanford-and-son-tv-quotes.jpg[/attachment]
 
Weird........after three years of complaining, I would love to have just one recruiter on the road right now.


We Are!
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=342933]Weird........after three years of complaining, I would love to have just one recruiter on the road right now.


We Are![/quote]

Someone recruiting a coach?
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=342620][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=342565] First , do you really think Matt will have great success at Nebraska , a FB School . Sure he’ll continue to get the unhappy Transfer kid who isn t getting PT at the school he originally selected and wants a new home . The transfer market in College BB is booming .,I think a couple of things gave impetus to Matt Leaving . One , he knew Mullin wasn’t going to stick around or , second knowing Hoiberg would pay him more money to go to Lincoln . , Nebraska . I don’t think Matt would have left Mullin otherwise .[/quote]

That's the point. He took a lateral move because despite having the keys to the kingdom, he could see the disaster on the horizon.

What does that tell you about the job Mullin was doing? That a kid who had his dream job with a HUGE salary bailed on his idol and alma mater for a lateral move in the middle of nowhere?

If you think we are where we are today because of a handful of fans who complained about the very things that drove Matt to bail on Mullin, then I can't help you.[/quote]

He is very very close to Hoiberg. After whiffing with the bulls Hoiberg will be there a while. As long as Hoiberg coaches college, Matt will be on his staff.

I posted several years ago that when I spoke to Matt and asked him how it was to be back, he did mention that his wife was bothered by how nasty some fans are here on social media. Matt knows New York is tough and it didn't bother him. But he said his wife is from the midwest and it didn't happen in Iowa like this and it bothered her. When Matt says he did the best thing for his family he was thinking of his wife's happiness being closer to home and the environment his kids will grow up in. If some people here think that players, some coaches, their families, and friends don't read the nasty stuff you're wrong. Most dismiss it as the rantings of morons, but not all, and no one likes to read garbage about themselves or family.
 
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