Mullin Stepping Down

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[quote="Marillac" post=338482][quote="Jack Williams" post=338464][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I have only been around for the last 3 coaches. But it is my understanding that Jarvis had to go because of factors off the basketball court.

Norm needed to go. He could not win. Lavin and Mullin both clearly had the best seasons they were ever gonna have at St. John's. As the years go by we forget that Lav essentially gave up recruiting. We had a year where our prized recruit had a fake transcript. We were looking at Brandon Sampson and Samir Doughty taking 30 shots a game each before we parted ways with Lav.

Mullin needed to go also. Hell yea this is happening because of expectations. And rightfully so. The day SJU settles for being a Wednesday Night Special in the Big East Tournament every year, is the day I stop supporting. Im glad Mike Cragg appears to have the desire to uplift this basketball program to greater heights. There is no reason we should not be able to have the 5 year stretch Willard just had at Seton Hall. How is that unrealistic? Couple Big East Tournament final appearances. NCAA win. Not asking for a National Championship here.

Here is my big unrealistic expectation. Whoever the next coach is, I want him to get us to Friday night at the BET in his first 3 years as coach.[/quote]

Jarvis made the Elite Eight in 1999 and won the old Big East in 2000. He made the NCAA tournament in 2002 and our fans were chanting “Fire Jarvis!” that year in Gampel Pavilion. He was still recruiting at a high level. Rumors spread about him — some exaggerated and some untrue — and that led to the fans turning on him.

He was also perceived as bad coach which, as someone who watched all of the team’s alumni hall practices, is completely false. We learned what bad coaches looked like after he left.

Jarvis asked for support from a nonexistent athletic department (along with coaches from other sports). The administration refused him and kind of upgrades or support and scrapped the programs of other sports — many of whom had repeatedly asked for more support like my football coach, Bob Ricca.

You should hear some stories about the low budget official visits during the Jarvis years.[/quote]

I was at that game at Gampel. I remember that being one of my low points as a sports fan. A chant like that occuring on the road. Just unheard of.
 
"The chasm between Cluess and Hurley is enormous. You don’t fire Mullin to hire a guy like Cluess."

Hurley is by far the #1 available candidate. But I don't get the anti-Cluess part, other than he is maybe older than we'd like.

He has won at EVERY level he's coached at. he seems to have a system and he seems to live and breathe basketball and coaching. THAT is what has been lacking. The gym rat (Chris) did not bring that passion to the coaching job. Cluess I believe would and would be a big upgrade. But Hurley is the #1 guy. Just don't know if he will come ($$$). I don't see the brother thing as an issue at all.
 
[quote="Room112" post=338523][quote="Marillac" post=338482][quote="Jack Williams" post=338464][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I have only been around for the last 3 coaches. But it is my understanding that Jarvis had to go because of factors off the basketball court.

Norm needed to go. He could not win. Lavin and Mullin both clearly had the best seasons they were ever gonna have at St. John's. As the years go by we forget that Lav essentially gave up recruiting. We had a year where our prized recruit had a fake transcript. We were looking at Brandon Sampson and Samir Doughty taking 30 shots a game each before we parted ways with Lav.

Mullin needed to go also. Hell yea this is happening because of expectations. And rightfully so. The day SJU settles for being a Wednesday Night Special in the Big East Tournament every year, is the day I stop supporting. Im glad Mike Cragg appears to have the desire to uplift this basketball program to greater heights. There is no reason we should not be able to have the 5 year stretch Willard just had at Seton Hall. How is that unrealistic? Couple Big East Tournament final appearances. NCAA win. Not asking for a National Championship here.

Here is my big unrealistic expectation. Whoever the next coach is, I want him to get us to Friday night at the BET in his first 3 years as coach.[/quote]

Jarvis made the Elite Eight in 1999 and won the old Big East in 2000. He made the NCAA tournament in 2002 and our fans were chanting “Fire Jarvis!” that year in Gampel Pavilion. He was still recruiting at a high level. Rumors spread about him — some exaggerated and some untrue — and that led to the fans turning on him.

He was also perceived as bad coach which, as someone who watched all of the team’s alumni hall practices, is completely false. We learned what bad coaches looked like after he left.

Jarvis asked for support from a nonexistent athletic department (along with coaches from other sports). The administration refused him and kind of upgrades or support and scrapped the programs of other sports — many of whom had repeatedly asked for more support like my football coach, Bob Ricca.

You should hear some stories about the low budget official visits during the Jarvis years.[/quote]

I was at that game at Gampel. I remember that being one of my low points as a sports fan. A chant like that occuring on the road. Just unheard of.[/quote]

I was there as well. I was ashamed. The chants actually started in 2001 on a smaller scale. Looking at the timeline it makes our fans look ridiculous. He won the Big Eadt in 2000! He has the #1 recruiting class in the country that year. Jarvis was landing top 25 talent with a budget that made him pickup recruits in a station wagon while guys like Pitino were rolling out the red carpet and giving recruits the best weekend of their lives.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338501][quote="Class of 72" post=338493][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

This release is extra messy because of who the coach is but getting an unexpected NCAA bid wasn't enough to hide all the blemishes. I thought Matt bailing out was just the beginning of the unraveling of the staff. None of the remaining coaches were adept at the recruiting game and as soon as Mullin became unavailable to the press it became apparent that the separation was being orchestrated above Cragg and perhaps being influenced by big donors who had seen enough (or too little) of Chris Mullin. Also, once it became clear that an extension was out of the question the little support he had left had rendered him a lame duck which was a big blow to his ego. He went into invisible mode when Golden State sent him the same message. Losing the last 5 of 7 games may have been a bad visual but there had been countless bad visuals to overcome. It was never going to be a happy ending and it would have never happened with a competent AD and an experienced President.[/quote]

All I will say at the moment is that signs of discontent were there last summer. You are likely aware also.[/quote]

Can I ask (and I don't want to start a shit storm with you) but if you know there were signs last summer why did you fight with such vengeance those who knew things were awry as well.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338514][quote="Paultzman" post=338509][quote="Marillac" post=338503][quote="Paultzman" post=338498][quote="Jack Williams" post=338497]Would love to beat Xavier's ass with Matta as coach. They have become my most hated BE team the last couple of years[/quote]

Have to agree, very chippy crew[/quote]

Their head coach is a psycho. So is Bobby Hurley :)[/quote]
Can’t argue w that[/quote]

Adding a new coach, just doesn't feel very hopeful. Have we killed hope yet?[/quote]
Not really, expressed myself on pros and cons of BH earlier.
 
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[quote="Rehobie" post=338517]A tidbit on BH. He was the type of player who thought he never committed a foul. He would show his displeasure we faces and gestures. Duke put together a low light video of BH to show him what a fool he was making of himself. Message received.

Perhaps a similar video is needed for his coaching antics.[/quote]

Again I posted earlier that ASU players were t'ed up 6 times this year. I think SJU players had close to 6 in one game. I couldn't find data about coaches techs but its clear the ASU players weren't following their coach like our guys seemed to do.
 
[quote="Moose" post=338527][quote="Beast of the East" post=338501][quote="Class of 72" post=338493][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

This release is extra messy because of who the coach is but getting an unexpected NCAA bid wasn't enough to hide all the blemishes. I thought Matt bailing out was just the beginning of the unraveling of the staff. None of the remaining coaches were adept at the recruiting game and as soon as Mullin became unavailable to the press it became apparent that the separation was being orchestrated above Cragg and perhaps being influenced by big donors who had seen enough (or too little) of Chris Mullin. Also, once it became clear that an extension was out of the question the little support he had left had rendered him a lame duck which was a big blow to his ego. He went into invisible mode when Golden State sent him the same message. Losing the last 5 of 7 games may have been a bad visual but there had been countless bad visuals to overcome. It was never going to be a happy ending and it would have never happened with a competent AD and an experienced President.[/quote]

All I will say at the moment is that signs of discontent were there last summer. You are likely aware also.[/quote]

Can I ask (and I don't want to start a shit storm with you) but if you know there were signs last summer why did you fight with such vengeance those who knew things were awry as well.[/quote]

I don't have anything personal against you. You should know that. What I was intensely irritated by any inferences that impugned Mullin's character, not his ability to manage and coach this team. I'm not sure if many of our fans understand the difference between questioning hit ability or fitness to run a college program, and things that attacked his character. That's all. I do know he considerably annoyed people with authority last summer, and I'm not even sure there was conflict about it.
 
I liked mjmaher’s candidates , especially Mike Brey of Notre Dame . I think several of the former BE Coaches , now in the ACC have tired of that League . Brey has many of the key attributes , classy , good Coach and until this year at ND , a winner . He might like a change of scenery , although I doubt he is getting heat at ND . Don’t think he was happy to leave the BE, as Boeheim wasn’t either . Speaking of Boeheim, how about Mike Hopkins of Washington ? He’s won there and has long time BE roots . Took a look at Hurley’s PAC 10 record in a weak league is 32-40 . Is that a upgrade from Mullin ? Maybe to some but, it’s not a great accomplishment , is it ? And , to be fair , how many posters on here are going to speak out about Hurley’s lunatic antics on the sidelines , when he gets the obligatory technicals . Many of Mullin’s critics used his getting on the Refs as poor Coaching . We’ll see if those apply the same criteria to Hurley , if he is the choice . Remember who you are.. Dawkins and Amaker will not be attractive choices either . Pitino ? Short of photos having Confession with the Pope and a thorough NCAA clearance , I would think he isn’t going to get the job . Thanks be to God ! I would include Billy Donavan as a decent candidate and who would object to him ? Chris Collins at Northwestern fits Cragg’s Duke roots . Scheyer is still too young and Learning . Jamie Dixon would be a good choice but, if UCLA could not buy him out , nether can we . Steve Alford has won everywhere but , he likely is looking for a bigger job , Tennessee ? If Barnes leaves . There are equally or better Coaches out there, if we have the $$$ . I’m not sold on Hurley , Bobby or Danny . How about a Bruce Webber at K State . Bill Self is likely not in danger at Kansas but , 1 more year like this one and the Jay Hawk fans will be screaming . The question would be , does Norm come too ? Only kidding , Self is not in play . Yet .
 
[quote="Rehobie" post=338517]A tidbit on BH. He was the type of player who thought he never committed a foul. He would show his displeasure we faces and gestures. Duke put together a low light video of BH to show him what a fool he was making of himself. Message received.

Perhaps a similar video is needed for his coaching antics.[/quote]

Bobby Hurley was one of the best point guards to ever play college basketball. He was a winner, smart, gritty, tough nosed, and an extreme competitor. If I get all of that with some antics I would take it every day of the week. Booby Knight was known to be a little bit of a nut on the sideline but was a hell of a coach. and I don;t think BH is anywhere as crazy as Knight.
 
Must say after speaking extensively to my “former friend” Moose and another hoops guy & reader of RM over past week, these two guys nailed it almost right down to the day of Chris stepping down. Waiting for the “Nostradamus Brothers” to nail the next coach selection. :)
 
[quote="Redmen88" post=338534][quote="Rehobie" post=338517]A tidbit on BH. He was the type of player who thought he never committed a foul. He would show his displeasure we faces and gestures. Duke put together a low light video of BH to show him what a fool he was making of himself. Message received.

Perhaps a similar video is needed for his coaching antics.[/quote]

Bobby Hurley was one of the best point guards to ever play college basketball. He was a winner, smart, gritty, tough nosed, and an extreme competitor. If I get all of that with some antics I would take it every day of the week. Booby Knight was known to be a little bit of a nut on the sideline but was a hell of a coach. and I don;t think BH is anywhere as crazy as Knight.[/quote]

Hurley was good but not in top 25 college point guards that I have seen play.
And Mullin was way better and as everyone has pointed out that means nothing.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=338542][quote="Redmen88" post=338534][quote="Rehobie" post=338517]A tidbit on BH. He was the type of player who thought he never committed a foul. He would show his displeasure we faces and gestures. Duke put together a low light video of BH to show him what a fool he was making of himself. Message received.

Perhaps a similar video is needed for his coaching antics.[/quote]

Bobby Hurley was one of the best point guards to ever play college basketball. He was a winner, smart, gritty, tough nosed, and an extreme competitor. If I get all of that with some antics I would take it every day of the week. Booby Knight was known to be a little bit of a nut on the sideline but was a hell of a coach. and I don;t think BH is anywhere as crazy as Knight.[/quote]

Hurley was good but not in top 25 college point guards that I have seen play.
And Mullin was way better and as everyone has pointed out that means nothing.[/quote]

Man you just hate Hurley if you don't consider him one of the top 25 college PGs. :huh:

[URL]https://www.ncaa.com/news/bask...college-basketball-point-guards-last-30-years[/URL]

This is going to be fun to watch
 
Just like St. John's to ruin a good night of watching a great college game. I loved Chris Mullin the player. However, somewhere along the line it became apparent that Chris Mullin wasn't really up to the task of running a college program. The "I'll be present" recruiting in every gym never really materialized (at least according to what people are saying) and as evidenced by our limited success on the court. I do wish him well but I also now wish he had never taken the job. I don't think he realized the time and effort needed at a floundering program at St. John's. If he was going to run the program like a CEO you can't have only one guy recruiting, another guy coaching and apparently one doing absolutely nothing.
Now that its over we are looking at another 3-5 year rebuild. That's reality. Odds are Hurley ain't coming here as that is going to cost major$$$. I am not even sure he is the right guy. Cluess is a good coach but let's be real, he is a 60 year old man so is he up to running around to gyms all over the country to find players?
Cragg really has his work cut out for him. What a mess. As usual. Its always something.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=338546]Just like St. John's to ruin a good night of watching a great college game. I loved Chris Mullin the player. However, somewhere along the line it became apparent that Chris Mullin wasn't really up to the task of running a college program. The "I'll be present" recruiting in every gym never really materialized (at least according to what people are saying) and as evidenced by our limited success on the court. I do wish him well but I also now wish he had never taken the job. I don't think he realized the time and effort needed at a floundering program at St. John's. If he was going to run the program like a CEO you can't have only one guy recruiting, another guy coaching and apparently one doing absolutely nothing.
Now that its over we are looking at another 3-5 year rebuild. That's reality. Odds are Hurley ain't coming here as that is going to cost major$$$. I am not even sure he is the right guy. Cluess is a good coach but let's be real, he is a 60 year old man so is he up to running around to gyms all over the country to find players?
Cragg really has his work cut out for him. What a mess. As usual. Its always something.[/quote]

Spot on. But if Cluess can get a couple hungry assistant's I think we will be ok. Sort of like a redo on McKillop mistake.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I’d rather shoot for the stars then settle for mediocrity, which is the very best we would have achieved under the last 3 coaches.
 
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