Mullin Stepping Down

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We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.
 
[quote="SJU85" post=338444][quote="fordham96" post=338386][quote="Paultzman" post=338367]Interesting perspective
[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/j...-make-helped-set-the-stage-for-his-departure/[/URL][/quote]

Not sure JP got all of his facts straight on the Mike Rice scenario...[/quote]

I was told that the Administration would never sign off on it. I am not sure if it was ever "formally" raised.[/quote]

I don't think that's the story at all, and the subject of getting an experienced guy in here last year may have been the beginning of the end.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

It's not just about the coaches though. Structurally, we haven't had an athletic department that's been setup for success in a very long time.That's why the Cragg hire was such a slam dunk. When's the last time we had an AD we all felt confident would guide this program into the future? I really believe a Cragg-Hurley combo would give us the infrastructure to make us successful for a long time. Bobby has taken two different programs to the tournament. Coaching is in his blood. This city is in his blood. I'm really excited that this might happen.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I have only been around for the last 3 coaches. But it is my understanding that Jarvis had to go because of factors off the basketball court.

Norm needed to go. He could not win. Lavin and Mullin both clearly had the best seasons they were ever gonna have at St. John's. As the years go by we forget that Lav essentially gave up recruiting. We had a year where our prized recruit had a fake transcript. We were looking at Brandon Sampson and Samir Doughty taking 30 shots a game each before we parted ways with Lav.

Mullin needed to go also. Hell yea this is happening because of expectations. And rightfully so. The day SJU settles for being a Wednesday Night Special in the Big East Tournament every year, is the day I stop supporting. Im glad Mike Cragg appears to have the desire to uplift this basketball program to greater heights. There is no reason we should not be able to have the 5 year stretch Willard just had at Seton Hall. How is that unrealistic? Couple Big East Tournament final appearances. NCAA win. Not asking for a National Championship here.

Here is my big unrealistic expectation. Whoever the next coach is, I want him to get us to Friday night at the BET in his first 3 years as coach.
 
I predict whoever our next coach is will get us into NCA tourney in his 4th year then resign or get fired. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

Rick Barnes was fired after 17 years (16 tournaments) at Texas.
 
I find it alarming that the school has yet to release an official statement regarding any of this. It's a terrible look for all parties involved to have these 'rumors' flying around. If they are true, then the announcement needs to be made ASAP.
 
[quote="Moose" post=338378][quote="SJ_NYC" post=338376][quote="Moose" post=338373]
Thanks for the landscape but no definitive choice.[/quote]
Moose, who do you want? You have been active with the coaching discussion these past weeks.[/quote]

From the names we've heard (Hurley, Cluess, Pitino) I want Hurley. I said I was all for making a change and would fully be behind any candidate. They all have their warts. We're not in a position to be having our pick of the litter with the coach that shines the brightest. I would fully support Cluess but similar I think fans would grow tired of some points quickly and Pitino sure great idea but not with NCAA violations. I could care less who he sleeps with in what restaurant.[/quote]

And if who he "sleeps" with in a restaurant was the only dirty laundry that would be different. We all know that is not the case.
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=338470]I find it alarming that the school has yet to release an official statement regarding any of this. It's a terrible look for all parties involved to have these 'rumors' flying around. If they are true, then the announcement needs to be made ASAP.[/quote]

Buyout?
If has to pay off Mullin next coach coming from discount rack
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=338440][quote="DoodyNY33" post=338435]For what it's worth, Pitino wants the SJU job[/quote]

what makes you say that[/quote]

One of the few sources I have. Unfortunately, I doubt St. John's will even consider it.
 
[quote="DoodyNY33" post=338476][quote="Jack Williams" post=338440][quote="DoodyNY33" post=338435]For what it's worth, Pitino wants the SJU job[/quote]

what makes you say that[/quote]

One of the few sources I have. Unfortunately, I doubt St. John's will even consider it.[/quote]


The Pitino text Zagoria posted proves you right. But it does not sound like it will happen
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=338464][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I have only been around for the last 3 coaches. But it is my understanding that Jarvis had to go because of factors off the basketball court.

Norm needed to go. He could not win. Lavin and Mullin both clearly had the best seasons they were ever gonna have at St. John's. As the years go by we forget that Lav essentially gave up recruiting. We had a year where our prized recruit had a fake transcript. We were looking at Brandon Sampson and Samir Doughty taking 30 shots a game each before we parted ways with Lav.

Mullin needed to go also. Hell yea this is happening because of expectations. And rightfully so. The day SJU settles for being a Wednesday Night Special in the Big East Tournament every year, is the day I stop supporting. Im glad Mike Cragg appears to have the desire to uplift this basketball program to greater heights. There is no reason we should not be able to have the 5 year stretch Willard just had at Seton Hall. How is that unrealistic? Couple Big East Tournament final appearances. NCAA win. Not asking for a National Championship here.

Here is my big unrealistic expectation. Whoever the next coach is, I want him to get us to Friday night at the BET in his first 3 years as coach.[/quote]

Jarvis made the Elite Eight in 1999 and won the old Big East in 2000. He made the NCAA tournament in 2002 and our fans were chanting “Fire Jarvis!” that year in Gampel Pavilion. He was still recruiting at a high level. Rumors spread about him — some exaggerated and some untrue — and that led to the fans turning on him.

He was also perceived as bad coach which, as someone who watched all of the team’s alumni hall practices, is completely false. We learned what bad coaches looked like after he left.

Jarvis asked for support from a nonexistent athletic department (along with coaches from other sports). The administration refused him and kind of upgrades or support and scrapped the programs of other sports — many of whom had repeatedly asked for more support like my football coach, Bob Ricca.

You should hear some stories about the low budget official visits during the Jarvis years.
 
I never really see these things coming and am surprised Mullin is stepping down after the public statement made the other day indicating that "Chris Mullin is our Head Coach." That said, this was clearer to me than when Lavin was let go probably because there were similarities to that situation here and I now have had the experience of seeing that one play out.

All that said, I believe that the next hire will have a Duke connection on his resume. Mike Cragg spent 31 years at Duke and it would very surprising to me if he went outside of that comfort zone when hiring our next coach. In that regard, the hiring of Bobby Hurley makes complete sense. However this does not mean it will happen, because there are a millions of reasons why people do or do not make decisions to change jobs.

Here is a look at some of the Duke connected coaches (see article below) currently out there. You can add Jon Scheyer's name (current Duke Assistant) to the list of Head Coaches with Duke connections on their resume. If it is not Hurley, than my guess is it will be one of these guys connected with Duke in their past.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...-11e9-922c-64d6b7840b82_story.html?noredirect[/URL]=on&utm_term=.a26f93751baf
 
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[quote="Andrew" post=338419]As for getting outbid for Hurley, he will be making 2.2 million next season with a raise that will bring him to 2.4 million in 2021. He also gets a 1 million retention bonus in 2021 so you are looking at having to offer him close to 3 million already. Don’t think ASU will go much higher then that and I don’t know if it’s an Apples to Apples situation. ASU can always hire Pitino as well. I like Hurley and would be very happy if he took the job.[/quote]

Add to this analysis that the cost of living in the NYC area is far higher than the Phoenix area and that could sway the calculation in Hurley's mind.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=338464][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

I have only been around for the last 3 coaches. But it is my understanding that Jarvis had to go because of factors off the basketball court.

Norm needed to go. He could not win. Lavin and Mullin both clearly had the best seasons they were ever gonna have at St. John's. As the years go by we forget that Lav essentially gave up recruiting. We had a year where our prized recruit had a fake transcript. We were looking at Brandon Sampson and Samir Doughty taking 30 shots a game each before we parted ways with Lav.

Mullin needed to go also. Hell yea this is happening because of expectations. And rightfully so. The day SJU settles for being a Wednesday Night Special in the Big East Tournament every year, is the day I stop supporting. Im glad Mike Cragg appears to have the desire to uplift this basketball program to greater heights. There is no reason we should not be able to have the 5 year stretch Willard just had at Seton Hall. How is that unrealistic? Couple Big East Tournament final appearances. NCAA win. Not asking for a National Championship here.

Here is my big unrealistic expectation. Whoever the next coach is, I want him to get us to Friday night at the BET in his first 3 years as coach.[/quote]

You are not incorrect. Of all the terminated coaches listed, only one of them (Roberts) was terminated solely for performance. Maybe, you throw Lavin into that group but he clearly annoyed people in administration who were on the fence about him.
 
[quote="mattc" post=338460][quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

It's not just about the coaches though. Structurally, we haven't had an athletic department that's been setup for success in a very long time.That's why the Cragg hire was such a slam dunk. When's the last time we had an AD we all felt confident would guide this program into the future? I really believe a Cragg-Hurley combo would give us the infrastructure to make us successful for a long time. Bobby has taken two different programs to the tournament. Coaching is in his blood. This city is in his blood. I'm really excited that this might happen.[/quote]

We don't know squat about Cragg. Let's not beatify him yet. For all you know, he'll leave for a big conference team that has major football and other sports on his plate. Please.
 
Hurley needs to be priority #1. Pitino would be extremely divisive and shouldn't be our top target.

Despite Pitino's high ceiling he is definitely a risky hire. There is a reason nobody else has offered him a job these past few years.

If we strike out on a couple hires, then I'd be open to Pitino.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=338458]We've now released the last two coaches a few days after the season ended where our team got a rare NCAA bid both NCAA losses souring fans and leadership..
Norm was released after getting an NIT bid (his best showing) also. Going out right away in the NIT didn't help him.
Jarvis was released early in the season after his previous team won the NIT. His arrogance played into his firing as well as the team's slow start.
Fraschilla was fired after getting an NCAA bid.

Once again, clearing the deck, but the pattern is undeniably there in terms of an expectation that may not be realistic for this program.[/quote]

This release is extra messy because of who the coach is but getting an unexpected NCAA bid wasn't enough to hide all the blemishes. I thought Matt bailing out was just the beginning of the unraveling of the staff. None of the remaining coaches were adept at the recruiting game and as soon as Mullin became unavailable to the press it became apparent that the separation was being orchestrated above Cragg and perhaps being influenced by big donors who had seen enough (or too little) of Chris Mullin. Also, once it became clear that an extension was out of the question the little support he had left had rendered him a lame duck which was a big blow to his ego. He went into invisible mode when Golden State sent him the same message. Losing the last 5 of 7 games may have been a bad visual but there had been countless bad visuals to overcome. It was never going to be a happy ending and it would have never happened with a competent AD and an experienced President.
 
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