Lavin's Future in Doubt at SJU

Seems like yesterday we were throwing around dozens of names, including those that were supposedly at the top of the school's list (Hewitt and Doherty).

Then I remember hearing we were about to announce Lavin as our next coach, which was a name pretty much out of left field.

Why do I have a feeling this is about to happen again?
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking also
 
My suggestion:

It is one thing to throw out the names of coaches you would like to see come here, but it is another thing as to whether they are offered and if so, would they come.

Like (and forgive me I don't want to go back and look up who said it right now) a fellow poster said, "There are those I want who wouldn't come and those who would who I don't want."

You have to look at the person and if they are presently coaching somewehere?
1. Would they leave their present situation at all?
2. If so, would they leave for us and why. What makes this a better situation than they are in presently. As part of this part of the discussion you also should take into account whether or not they had opportunities in the past and if so, why didn't they go then and why would they leave now.
3. How would they play up here in NYC and with recruits period.

If they are not coaching:
1. Would they leave what they are doing now for a college Head Coach job?
2. What evidence do you have that they would succeed here?
3. Would they even want to coach?

And while you are doing that, you have to remember the BE is not what it use to be as a conference and St. John's as a program has not been a consistent winner and Top 40 program let alone Top 25 in a long time (consistent being the word, not that we were ranked this year).

I don't know what the ultimate decision will be regarding Lavin, It will be interesting to see how this all plays out be either way, decision needs to be made quickly and decisively, one way or the other.
 
Come on now. Chris Mullin. Greatest player in SJU history. Wooden award winner. All american. Basketball Hall of Fame. Gold medal winner. NBA GM. But he's not qualified to fill Norm Roberts Florsheim shoes and Steve Lavin's sweat suit? Come on now. -FUN

I would hire you over Norm. At least your interviews would be must see.
Do I think Chris Mullin knows more about basketball than Lavin? Of course. But so do a ton of people that are not or have ever been a coach. Could Mullin step into the pros and be succesful. I think so. Recruiting is the issue and even with the last couple years failures, a fully engaged Lavin is our best hope to get kids to come here. I am not a Lavin fan, but I honestly believe that last sentence.
 
Seems like yesterday we were throwing around dozens of names, including those that were supposedly at the top of the school's list (Hewitt and Doherty).

Then I remember hearing we were about to announce Lavin as our next coach, which was a name pretty much out of left field.

Why do I have a feeling this is about to happen again?
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking also
Click to expand...
We've all been conditioned!
 
So with Howland off the board, the school has two possible directions: up and comers, and legends.

In the up and comers category you have Archie Miller, Bobby Hurley, Danny Hurley, Rick Pitino Jr, and Masiello for obvious choices.

Masiello is out for reasons that should be obvious. Rick Pitino Jr is mediocre and there are better choices. Danny Hurley isn't cooked yet, he needs to do more at a higher level before he is more than a hope and a dream.

As between Miller and Bobby, Miller has done more and at a higher level, so he has a clear edge. However Bobby would certainly be a good gamble. If you are one of those who disqualifies him because "he's a Dukie", then I can't help you with that, because you're being irrational.

In the legends category, you have Mark Jackson and Chris Mullin. Mark seems a whOle lot like Clyde Drexler to Houston. Plus he may in fact be off his rocker. Clearly he has a big ego, and I dont see how that works with going and begging some high school kid to come play for him in college. I think Mark would be a terrible risk.

On the other hand, I think Chris could actually be a success, given the right staff. Would he be my first choice over a more proven commodity, no. I would certainly prefer him to everyone on the list above other than Miller and Bobby. If it were Bobby vs Chris I would probably go with Hurley, but I can see the contrary argument.

It does appear that Miller is the strongest potentially available candidate and the closest thing to a sure thing, though.

Hopefully the school will not reach and do something stupid if Lavin is indeed gone.
Click to expand...

I think Danny is more cooked than Bobby.
 
If you strapped Pointer, Harrison, Harkless and Sampson to a lie detector, I bet at least one of them did not know who Chris Mullin was before they got here.

Yet Lavin convinced all four to come and play here.

Listen if there was a clear cut guy who I thought SJU could get, I would help Lavin pack, however.......
 
Would take Miller or Smart in a heartbeat, but would be very very happy with Bobby Hurley. The only downside to Hurley that I can see is his small sample size as a head coach, but what he's done at Buffalo in 2 years is nothing short of amazing. He's also got pedigree, local ties, and a work ethic likely taught to him by his blue collar Dad. Also know that his Dad had plenty of opportunities to leave St. Anthony's for greener pastures and more money but didn't, out of loyalty to the school. If we were to hire Hurley, I suspect we'll be getting ourselves a very loyal long-term coach. IE the kind of stability we haven't had around here since Lou retired. Heard an interview a few weeks back with Justin Moss, the Buffalo PF, where he talked about Hurley's work ethic and his infectious burning desire to win.

Again, a small sample size, but well worth the risk IMO.
 
Come on now. Chris Mullin. Greatest player in SJU history. Wooden award winner. All american. Basketball Hall of Fame. Gold medal winner. NBA GM. But he's not qualified to fill Norm Roberts Florsheim shoes and Steve Lavin's sweat suit? Come on now. -FUN

I would hire you over Norm. At least your interviews would be must see.
Do I think Chris Mullin knows more about basketball than Lavin? Of course. But so do a ton of people that are not or have ever been a coach. Could Mullin step into the pros and be succesful. I think so. Recruiting is the issue and even with the last couple years failures, a fully engaged Lavin is our best hope to get kids to come here. I am not a Lavin fan, but I honestly believe that last sentence.
Click to expand...

Mullin has succeeded at everything he's tried in basketball. I assume if he took it he'd take it to succeed. He can hire a someone to recruit. (Dave mentioned a package deal with Barry Rohrssen.)

Lavin is clearly not fully engaged and anyway the bloom is off his rose. It's hard to believe all of a sudden he's going to turn things around.
 
Would take Miller or Smart in a heartbeat, but would be very very happy with Bobby Hurley. The only downside to Hurley that I can see is his small sample size as a head coach, but what he's done at Buffalo in 2 years is nothing short of amazing. He's also got pedigree, local ties, and a work ethic likely taught to him by his blue collar Dad. Also know that his Dad had plenty of opportunities to leave St. Anthony's for greener pastures and more money but didn't, out of loyalty to the school. If we were to hire Hurley, I suspect we'll be getting ourselves a very loyal long-term coach. IE the kind of stability we haven't had around here since Lou retired. Heard an interview a few weeks back with Justin Moss, the Buffalo PF, where he talked about Hurley's work ethic and his infectious burning desire to win.

Again, a small sample size, but well worth the risk IMO.
Click to expand...

I think it's a big stretch to assume he would stay long term because his father has stayed put. I have trouble believing that he would stay loyal when another school comes calling for him with $3 million.
 
B
Avon and Paultz:

What level of confidence do you have that this administration will make a good hire? I'm hearing via word of mouth that this may be a cost cutting decision.
Click to expand...

Better pool of candidates than the last time so thehire will be better.

When I posted early in the year that he was gone no matter what, that was from info I received that the SJU higher ups were not happy spending as much as they have on a coach (and a very very overpaid staff) and not getting a return on the investment.

I wouldn't say they are going to be cheaper, but they will be smarter this time in how the staff is compensated
Click to expand...

And by smarter compensation packages an example would be not paying Gene Keady 350k a year. This is the nonsense that was completely unnecessary
Click to expand...

Just curious, what is the rest of the Staff's compensation packages?
Click to expand...

300-400 k range.
very overpaid for the product we've received.....
Click to expand...

While I think the University should be looking at ROI from investment in bball, it's really not my concern or yours. If they invest $5 million per year and we win 25 games per year, we wou;dn't care a bit. On the other hand if they spend $1 million per to be an NIT team, we'd all have a big problem with that.
Click to expand...

please just speak for yourself and dont tell me what my concern is.

thanks
Click to expand...

Unless you are kicking in, it's literally none of your business. It's not your business, since you are a fan, not a proprietor. I have a rooting interest in the team and that's all. I donate, but as soon as the check leaves my hands its not mine anymore - it just affects future donations if they aren't doing the right thing. You go to games, and you are a gigantic liar if you'd say that if we won big, but the team lost money that you would care. I'm not attacking you, but the idiot who thanked you is another story
Click to expand...

Beast, I have to disagree with you on the compensation issue. First, as a fan, I consider everything within reason that affects the team's prospects to be my business. And how much money the school (or the big-money donors) are willing to fork over for a head coach is hugely important. It's not the be-all-and-end-all, but it gives you a very good idea of what kind of caliber coach we could be getting in Lavin's stead.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it has no effect on our program. I am saying that for those bringing up assistant coach's salaries is to pile more garbage on the heap of complaints against Lavin. For me it's very simple: Did he win enough to warrant bringing him back. If he didn't win enough it doesn't matter if he's making $2 million or $200,000.
 
Fun
So that would be your first choice Mullin?
Speaking of engaged, my understanding is he is very happy out West.

If hired it would take away a good deal of my posting style as I won't criticize him no matter what he does. So that is a negative or positive depending on people's feelings about me.
 
After calming down a bit and having a chance to think about it. I changed my mind and think Lavin should be extended. But not for the reasons you might expect. I think he should be extended not on his body of work(that's up for debate) but because this is an extremely unique and opportune time in the NYC area recruiting, with Boeheim retiring this season should be his last easy get of great recruits, and UConn did not make the tourney in the struggling AAC. The recruits for the first time in 25 years will be ours to for the taking, even the NJ guys. We need to stay on course with a guy who's in place not start over again giving Hopkins at Cuse a chance to take all these guys.
 
Would take Miller or Smart in a heartbeat, but would be very very happy with Bobby Hurley. The only downside to Hurley that I can see is his small sample size as a head coach, but what he's done at Buffalo in 2 years is nothing short of amazing. He's also got pedigree, local ties, and a work ethic likely taught to him by his blue collar Dad. Also know that his Dad had plenty of opportunities to leave St. Anthony's for greener pastures and more money but didn't, out of loyalty to the school. If we were to hire Hurley, I suspect we'll be getting ourselves a very loyal long-term coach. IE the kind of stability we haven't had around here since Lou retired. Heard an interview a few weeks back with Justin Moss, the Buffalo PF, where he talked about Hurley's work ethic and his infectious burning desire to win.

Again, a small sample size, but well worth the risk IMO.
Click to expand...

I think it's a big stretch to assume he would stay long term because his father has stayed put. I have trouble believing that he would stay loyal when another school comes calling for him with $3 million.
Click to expand...

None of us have any way of knowing for sure, but that will be the case with anyone. The fact that he's a local guy and his family is still here certainly can't hurt. And if he were to meet with success here, he'd not only be the king of college hoops in NY, but in NJ as well. No reasonable candidate is going to come without some risk, but I like the guy(not that it matters lol) and I think his pros far outweigh his cons.
 
After calming down a bit and having a chance to think about it. I changed my mind and think Lavin should be extended. But not for the reasons you might expect. I think he should be extended not on his body of work(that's up for debate) but because this is an extremely unique and opportune time in the NYC area recruiting, with Boeheim retiring this season should be his last easy get of great recruits, and UConn did not make the tourney in the struggling AAC. The recruits for the first time in 25 years will be ours to for the taking, even the NJ guys. We need to stay on course with a guy who's in place not start over again giving Hopkins at Cuse a chance to take all these guys.
Click to expand...

I also believe Lavin should remain. Especially since he has recruited that kid Sampson who supposedly shoots lights out like Stephen Curry. We need the outside shooter and if Lavin gets the extension he will come up with some other recruits as well. Also I dont think the new President has a true handle on things yet so he shouldnt cut the Lavin umbilical chord at this point
 
If Lavin is retained he should take a look at how Xavier is handling a possible infraction concerning one of their players. A four to six week investigation and if warranted the player sits out next year's opener.
If he is a senior a bawling out.
This method was not originated by Jim Boeheim but he certainly utilized it.
 
After calming down a bit and having a chance to think about it. I changed my mind and think Lavin should be extended. But not for the reasons you might expect. I think he should be extended not on his body of work(that's up for debate) but because this is an extremely unique and opportune time in the NYC area recruiting, with Boeheim retiring this season should be his last easy get of great recruits, and UConn did not make the tourney in the struggling AAC. The recruits for the first time in 25 years will be ours to for the taking, even the NJ guys. We need to stay on course with a guy who's in place not start over again giving Hopkins at Cuse a chance to take all these guys.
Click to expand...

I also believe Lavin should remain. Especially since he has recruited that kid Sampson who supposedly shoots lights out like Stephen Curry. We need the outside shooter and if Lavin gets the extension he will come up with some other recruits as well. Also I dont think the new President has a true handle on things yet so he shouldnt cut the Lavin umbilical chord at this point
Click to expand...
Heard B Sampson outside shot is inconsistent but regardless to compare him to one of the greatest shooters in the history of Basketball is pure folly.
 
Fun
So that would be your first choice Mullin?
Speaking of engaged, my understanding is he is very happy out West.

If hired it would take away a good deal of my posting style as I won't criticize him no matter what he does. So that is a negative or positive depending on people's feelings about me.
Click to expand...

I don't have a choice but I don't think Mullin's a crazy one. I'd rather root for him than Bobby Hurley.

I halfway think Lavin should have to endure the shit sandwich that next year's going to be. It'd be fun to watch him implode.
 
Seems like yesterday we were throwing around dozens of names, including those that were supposedly at the top of the school's list (Hewitt and Doherty).

Then I remember hearing we were about to announce Lavin as our next coach, which was a name pretty much out of left field.

Why do I have a feeling this is about to happen again?
Click to expand...

We are Ground Hog's Day...I mean We are St. John's
 
Aside from an impossible hire like Pitino Sr., Cal, Self, Izzo, etc., I think Miller is the strongest of the "obtainable" choices, and we don't even know how obtainable he really is.

He seems like the best choice of all the reasonable names we are throwing around.

I just hope some of you don't jump off a bridge if SJU announces a 3 year extension for Lavin on Friday. You guys are counting your coaches before they've hatched.
Click to expand...

Frank, are you daring me? You know I live walking distance from the Brooklyn Bridge. And by the way, my latest count of unhatched coaches has reaches five. I think I reached my limit though.
 
Aside from an impossible hire like Pitino Sr., Cal, Self, Izzo, etc., I think Miller is the strongest of the "obtainable" choices, and we don't even know how obtainable he really is.

He seems like the best choice of all the reasonable names we are throwing around.

I just hope some of you don't jump off a bridge if SJU announces a 3 year extension for Lavin on Friday. You guys are counting your coaches before they've hatched.
Click to expand...

Frank, are you daring me? You know I live walking distance from the Brooklyn Bridge. And by the way, my latest count of unhatched coaches has reaches five. I think I reached my limit though.
Click to expand...

Call me before you jump...I may join you!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top