Lavin's Future in Doubt at SJU

[beast of the east]

B

Avon and Paultz:

What level of confidence do you have that this administration will make a good hire? I'm hearing via word of mouth that this may be a cost cutting decision.

Better pool of candidates than the last time so thehire will be better.

When I posted early in the year that he was gone no matter what, that was from info I received that the SJU higher ups were not happy spending as much as they have on a coach (and a very very overpaid staff) and not getting a return on the investment.

I wouldn't say they are going to be cheaper, but they will be smarter this time in how the staff is compensated

And by smarter compensation packages an example would be not paying Gene Keady 350k a year. This is the nonsense that was completely unnecessary

Just curious, what is the rest of the Staff's compensation packages?

300-400 k range.
very overpaid for the product we've received.....

While I think the University should be looking at ROI from investment in bball, it's really not my concern or yours. If they invest $5 million per year and we win 25 games per year, we wou;dn't care a bit. On the other hand if they spend $1 million per to be an NIT team, we'd all have a big problem with that.

please just speak for yourself and dont tell me what my concern is.

thanks

Unless you are kicking in, it's literally none of your business. It's not your business, since you are a fan, not a proprietor. I have a rooting interest in the team and that's all. I donate, but as soon as the check leaves my hands its not mine anymore - it just affects future donations if they aren't doing the right thing. You go to games, and you are a gigantic liar if you'd say that if we won big, but the team lost money that you would care. I'm not attacking you, but the idiot who thanked you is another story

 

[beast of the east]

As far as I know this Zags blog is way off. Not to say Lavin won't be fired, but in his thinking that because there is a meeting scheduled that the meeting is called because of how the season ended. The committee has been in place since before the season began, and this meeting is a perfunctory part of their existence.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

To me, this whole hiring a new coach situation (if we need to) is sort of like the NFL draft. You can do all the scouting reports and all the analysis in the world, but in the end, you never know what kind of results you are going to get. In the end. Andrew Luck was a can't miss prospect, and he is working out great. Tim Couch was also a can't miss prospect, but we all know how well that ended.

When it comes to finding the right guy, I honestly believe that it's really just a matter of getting incredibly lucky.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

B

Avon and Paultz:

What level of confidence do you have that this administration will make a good hire? I'm hearing via word of mouth that this may be a cost cutting decision.

Better pool of candidates than the last time so thehire will be better.

When I posted early in the year that he was gone no matter what, that was from info I received that the SJU higher ups were not happy spending as much as they have on a coach (and a very very overpaid staff) and not getting a return on the investment.

I wouldn't say they are going to be cheaper, but they will be smarter this time in how the staff is compensated

And by smarter compensation packages an example would be not paying Gene Keady 350k a year. This is the nonsense that was completely unnecessary

Just curious, what is the rest of the Staff's compensation packages?

300-400 k range.
very overpaid for the product we've received.....

While I think the University should be looking at ROI from investment in bball, it's really not my concern or yours. If they invest $5 million per year and we win 25 games per year, we wou;dn't care a bit. On the other hand if they spend $1 million per to be an NIT team, we'd all have a big problem with that.

please just speak for yourself and dont tell me what my concern is.

thanks

Unless you are kicking in, it's literally none of your business. It's not your business, since you are a fan, not a proprietor. I have a rooting interest in the team and that's all. I donate, but as soon as the check leaves my hands its not mine anymore - it just affects future donations if they aren't doing the right thing. You go to games, and you are a gigantic liar if you'd say that if we won big, but the team lost money that you would care. I'm not attacking you, but the idiot who thanked you is another story

Thanks beast.

Maybe you can do a conference call with the mods to have the redmen.com rules re-written to suit your point of view.

This way no one can disagree with you and when they do you can tell them what they should be thinking and posting.

and to think youre the one who called me a baby....at least i let people have their opinion although i may be at the other end of it - you just come off like a pompous arrogant asshole telling people what is/isnt their business.

have a nice day.

 

[Redmen88]

To me, this whole hiring a new coach situation (if we need to) is sort of like the NFL draft. You can do all the scouting reports and all the analysis in the world, but in the end, you never know what kind of results you are going to get. In the end. Andrew Luck was a can't miss prospect, and he is working out great. Tim Couch was also a can't miss prospect, but we all know how well that ended.

When it comes to finding the right guy, I honestly believe that it's really just a matter of getting incredibly lucky.

Like the draft it is lucky if you go with an up and comer. If you go with a Free Agent like, Peyton Manning, in our case Archie Miller it is not luck at all. You have a proven commodity. That is why it is best to spend on someone with a track record. Lavin has done okay so if you are going to get rid of him then you have to be pretty sure in what you are getting. I am all for getting rid of Lavin if we go get someone that we feel confident will provide results.

 

[NorthShore]

Either give Coach Lavin an extension or bring in Shaka Smart. Just my dumb thoughts.

 

[beast of the east]

B

Avon and Paultz:

What level of confidence do you have that this administration will make a good hire? I'm hearing via word of mouth that this may be a cost cutting decision.

Better pool of candidates than the last time so thehire will be better.

When I posted early in the year that he was gone no matter what, that was from info I received that the SJU higher ups were not happy spending as much as they have on a coach (and a very very overpaid staff) and not getting a return on the investment.

I wouldn't say they are going to be cheaper, but they will be smarter this time in how the staff is compensated

And by smarter compensation packages an example would be not paying Gene Keady 350k a year. This is the nonsense that was completely unnecessary

Just curious, what is the rest of the Staff's compensation packages?

300-400 k range.
very overpaid for the product we've received.....

While I think the University should be looking at ROI from investment in bball, it's really not my concern or yours. If they invest $5 million per year and we win 25 games per year, we wou;dn't care a bit. On the other hand if they spend $1 million per to be an NIT team, we'd all have a big problem with that.

please just speak for yourself and dont tell me what my concern is.

thanks

Unless you are kicking in, it's literally none of your business. It's not your business, since you are a fan, not a proprietor. I have a rooting interest in the team and that's all. I donate, but as soon as the check leaves my hands its not mine anymore - it just affects future donations if they aren't doing the right thing. You go to games, and you are a gigantic liar if you'd say that if we won big, but the team lost money that you would care. I'm not attacking you, but the idiot who thanked you is another story

Thanks beast.

Maybe you can do a conference call with the mods to have the redmen.com rules re-written to suit your point of view.

This way no one can disagree with you and when they do you can tell them what they should be thinking and posting.

and to think youre the one who called me a baby....at least i let people have their opinion although i may be at the other end of it - you just come off like a pompous arrogant asshole telling people what is/isnt their business.

have a nice day.

I think you are just snapping because you proclaimed Lavin to be fired and it hasn't happened. Flinging around profanity to make your point doesn't help. In terms of the redmen.com rules, profanity is prohibited, and supporting the team is the purpose of the board. You've failed in at least one of the two.


Why don't you be honest and recall that Lavin left money on the table - that means he took a lower salary so there would be more money for a coaching staff of his choosing. Name 5 guys in college basketball who did that? Maybe name 1. Is Keady of value? I have no idea. All I know is we finished the season with 5 serviceable guys, and lost our last three games. Would you suddenly like Lavin at 500K? No, because you want to win.

Wait a second, reasoning with you makes no sense, because at this point you are irrational in your hatred of Lavin and desire to see him gone.

For the record, Chris, I have no personal agenda against you. It's only business, not personal.

 

[ADORAZ]

To me, this whole hiring a new coach situation (if we need to) is sort of like the NFL draft. You can do all the scouting reports and all the analysis in the world, but in the end, you never know what kind of results you are going to get. In the end. Andrew Luck was a can't miss prospect, and he is working out great. Tim Couch was also a can't miss prospect, but we all know how well that ended.

When it comes to finding the right guy, I honestly believe that it's really just a matter of getting incredibly lucky.

Partially true, but say if we got someone like Smart. He would guarantee to bring some high level recruits in immediately which we badly need. That's an advantage he has over some other candidates that we can rely on.

 

[ADORAZ]

Anyone else think Smart may be on the market? His stock is dropping after first game exits the last couple years and he might want a change in scenery. He's my ideal choice.

My preferences:
1. Smart
2. Miller
3. Mullin
4. Jackson
5. Hurley

I'd also be fine with Lavin.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

To me, this whole hiring a new coach situation (if we need to) is sort of like the NFL draft. You can do all the scouting reports and all the analysis in the world, but in the end, you never know what kind of results you are going to get. In the end. Andrew Luck was a can't miss prospect, and he is working out great. Tim Couch was also a can't miss prospect, but we all know how well that ended.

When it comes to finding the right guy, I honestly believe that it's really just a matter of getting incredibly lucky.

Like the draft it is lucky if you go with an up and comer. If you go with a Free Agent like, Peyton Manning, in our case Archie Miller it is not luck at all. You have a proven commodity. That is why it is best to spend on someone with a track record. Lavin has done okay so if you are going to get rid of him then you have to be pretty sure in what you are getting. I am all for getting rid of Lavin if we go get someone that we feel confident will provide results.

Or it could be someone like Tubby Smith, who was a proven commodity and has a national championship on his resume, but is also just 27-37 in his first two seasons at Texas Tech.

My point is this....whether it is a proven free agent, or an up and comer with all the potential, it is literally impossible to project how someone will do here.

 

[we are sju]

Hell hire Lon Krueger. Guy made the tourney with about 45 different schools

 

[Avon Barksdale]

B

Avon and Paultz:

What level of confidence do you have that this administration will make a good hire? I'm hearing via word of mouth that this may be a cost cutting decision.

Better pool of candidates than the last time so thehire will be better.

When I posted early in the year that he was gone no matter what, that was from info I received that the SJU higher ups were not happy spending as much as they have on a coach (and a very very overpaid staff) and not getting a return on the investment.

I wouldn't say they are going to be cheaper, but they will be smarter this time in how the staff is compensated

And by smarter compensation packages an example would be not paying Gene Keady 350k a year. This is the nonsense that was completely unnecessary

Just curious, what is the rest of the Staff's compensation packages?

300-400 k range.
very overpaid for the product we've received.....

While I think the University should be looking at ROI from investment in bball, it's really not my concern or yours. If they invest $5 million per year and we win 25 games per year, we wou;dn't care a bit. On the other hand if they spend $1 million per to be an NIT team, we'd all have a big problem with that.

please just speak for yourself and dont tell me what my concern is.

thanks

Unless you are kicking in, it's literally none of your business. It's not your business, since you are a fan, not a proprietor. I have a rooting interest in the team and that's all. I donate, but as soon as the check leaves my hands its not mine anymore - it just affects future donations if they aren't doing the right thing. You go to games, and you are a gigantic liar if you'd say that if we won big, but the team lost money that you would care. I'm not attacking you, but the idiot who thanked you is another story

Thanks beast.

Maybe you can do a conference call with the mods to have the redmen.com rules re-written to suit your point of view.

This way no one can disagree with you and when they do you can tell them what they should be thinking and posting.

and to think youre the one who called me a baby....at least i let people have their opinion although i may be at the other end of it - you just come off like a pompous arrogant asshole telling people what is/isnt their business.

have a nice day.

I think you are just snapping because you proclaimed Lavin to be fired and it hasn't happened. Flinging around profanity to make your point doesn't help. In terms of the redmen.com rules, profanity is prohibited, and supporting the team is the purpose of the board. You've failed in at least one of the two.


Why don't you be honest and recall that Lavin left money on the table - that means he took a lower salary so there would be more money for a coaching staff of his choosing. Name 5 guys in college basketball who did that? Maybe name 1. Is Keady of value? I have no idea. All I know is we finished the season with 5 serviceable guys, and lost our last three games. Would you suddenly like Lavin at 500K? No, because you want to win.

Wait a second, reasoning with you makes no sense, because at this point you are irrational in your hatred of Lavin and desire to see him gone.

For the record, Chris, I have no personal agenda against you. It's only business, not personal.

I don’t hate Lavin. I am not happy with the results the team has had with him as the coach.

I have been saying this all year, and you cannot seem to wrap your head around it: a one and done NCAA Tournament appearance with this group over four years SHOULD NOT be ample enough to save his job because when this class is gone next year, the team will look like it belongs playing in the CHSAA.

I can really care less who the coach is, if he wears a suit or a sweater and whatever else the criticisms have been – win and I can care less. Lavin hasn’t only not won, he has also positioned the program to be in a rebuild for the ages because he gave ships out to kids who didn’t belong in the BE and only had one for 2013, he completely whiffed on Thomas and ADR this year and bringing in Brandon Sampson to replace the seniors plus Jordan and Chris is not enough. At least in 11 he brought in an excellent class to replace the outgoing seniors – this has turned into a disaster for the ages, and thats why he should be fired – utter mismanagement of the program.

He was a great recruiter at UCLA – maybe the UCLA brand helped him reel in top kids, whatever the case was there, that masked his AWFUL coaching - but now he cant bring those top kids here and he is not only a bad coach but also a bad recruiter. Why would I want him coaching my team? You make this out like it’s a conspiracy theory and I am trying to get the greatest coach ever fired. He sucks! Period. Its time to move on and get this right for once.

It was not nice of me to call you the name i did and i apologize, but you should try to allow posters to have their opinion and debate them rather than telling them what they can and cant do.

If you want to take it to PM, please do, it would be inconsiderate to have the board see our back and forth.

 

[SJU14]

I still think Lavin will be extended, That is in fact the solution that will create the most stability to the program. I think this thread is cleaver though. First a poll to show the displeasure with Lavin and when that blew up, we start a tread with negative innuendo.

This thread started because of an article from zags that made it sound like Lavin might be on the way out. This wasn't started by a Lavin hater trying to start another fight.

But is basically turning into that again, isn't it?

Kind of but don't blame the OP for just trying to share an important article.

Thanks Jack, I appreciate it.

Frank, the thread wasn't meant to be a place to bash Lavin. There's enough of that going on around here. It was meant to show the article that Zags wrote that has 3 sources saying that a meeting will be held and it doesn't look good for Lavin.

On a different note, I would like to see the program go in a different direction. A young, upcoming coach with some experience on building a program. My top choices would be Miller, Marshall, Smart or Hurley.

 

[redfan259999888]

It seems like the financial backers want an Archie Miller type coach while the school wants a guy with more experience.

Then I guess that leaves off both Hurley brothers. Jackson never coached the college game. Masiello doesn't have much experience.
School might be looking at someone that we haven't mentioned. Rick Jr. doesn't have much experience so cant be him.

I only got up to page 2 before responding to this, so if it's mentioned in the later pages then my bad.

 

[Marillac]

Was Bobby Hurley in the Taurassi tape? Has to be a reason Marillac pimping him like he is Tom Izzo or something.

I didn't think Buffalo had a chance. It's SUNY freaking Bufalo. The MAC is actually a pretty decent conference...Kent State went to Elite Eight out of the conference and Wally Szczerbiak led Miami (Ohio) to the Sweet 16. Ball State and Ohio (2012) made it to the Sweet 16 off the top of my head.

I was really impressed by the fight his team showed against WV. One made shot and they could have won the game. He won me over. Then, I looked at his recruiting and his roster. He's got two years of 25+ wins waiting for him if he remains. I think anyone would feel good about Bobby Hurley with 100 wins in just four seasons and that seems to be a near certainty. Why wait?

 

[monte]

you're ok with the probability of losing Sampson? Writing off next year would be an understatement. If you let go of Lavin, Jordan and Obekpa- from mixed/doubtful to definitely gone.U lose Samson, a 4 star recruit. An next year is not just a throwaway, its a potential winless year in the Big East. Is everyone here prepared for that set of dominos?

Not saying it's an easy decision, but this scenario has to be contemplated.

Why would be probably lose Sampson? He committed here because of the PT and opportunity available for him to shine. Based on his quotes, I don't think we'd lose him. Also, if we added a former PG like Archie Miller or Bobby Hurley, he would be silly to walk away from the chance to learn from them.

Can you imagine the excitement hiring Hurley would generate? He'd fill out an insane class in a few weeks.

One quick trip through the Holland tunnel and he'd return with a new starting 5 for next year.

 

[beast of the east]

Was Bobby Hurley in the Taurassi tape? Has to be a reason Marillac pimping him like he is Tom Izzo or something.

I didn't think Buffalo had a chance. It's SUNY freaking Bufalo. The MAC is actually a pretty decent conference...Kent State went to Elite Eight out of the conference and Wally Szczerbiak led Miami (Ohio) to the Sweet 16. Ball State and Ohio (2012) made it to the Sweet 16 off the top of my head.

I was really impressed by the fight his team showed against WV. One made shot and they could have won the game. He won me over. Then, I looked at his recruiting and his roster. He's got two years of 25+ wins waiting for him if he remains. I think anyone would feel good about Bobby Hurley with 100 wins in just four seasons and that seems to be a near certainty. Why wait?

Because Buffalo to SJU is too big a leap to reasonably think he can run a big time program.

 

[Russ2374]

But seriously I'm still sitting here thinking besides Archie Miller what is a realistic option that is an obvious improvement? The guys I'd really want won't come and the guys that would come I really don't want.

That is pretty much how I view things, as well.

Me as well. This has the potential to be an absolute disaster the way this school handles coaching changes. Going cheaper is not the right way. We want a winner not a cheaper loser. I have no confidence that any of the realistic names out there can do better and making a change now only throws away the next 2 years. By year 3 what's left of our delusuonal and impatient fan base will be calling for the next coach's head. It's this vicious and constant cycle of losing that needs to end. This program needs stability.

If we make a change please do it now and do not drag it out. Please do not go cheap and unproven. Don't make a change for the sake of making a change. If we can get Miller, I'm all for it. I still doubt he'd come but I know for sure he definitely won't come cheap! We won't get a difference maker going cheap. We will only get more years of the same at best but more likely worse.

 

[we are sju]

The last two times SJU hired a head coach with hardly any experience as a head coach it turned out really, really, really bad.
Marillac, you, me or anyone really has no idea how Hurley will be able to recruit here.
Next year is going to be awful. Are you ready to gamble that Hurley will be able to recruit well enough to prevent a 5 or 6 year drought?
Way to big a gamble at this point. Go proven or extend! Want to go with the unproven up and comer wait 3 more years.
Jeesh, this is where we have come? Our "savior" is a guy with only a 2 year stint at SUNY Buffalo on his resume.

 

[Redmen88]

To me, this whole hiring a new coach situation (if we need to) is sort of like the NFL draft. You can do all the scouting reports and all the analysis in the world, but in the end, you never know what kind of results you are going to get. In the end. Andrew Luck was a can't miss prospect, and he is working out great. Tim Couch was also a can't miss prospect, but we all know how well that ended.

When it comes to finding the right guy, I honestly believe that it's really just a matter of getting incredibly lucky.

Like the draft it is lucky if you go with an up and comer. If you go with a Free Agent like, Peyton Manning, in our case Archie Miller it is not luck at all. You have a proven commodity. That is why it is best to spend on someone with a track record. Lavin has done okay so if you are going to get rid of him then you have to be pretty sure in what you are getting. I am all for getting rid of Lavin if we go get someone that we feel confident will provide results.

Or it could be someone like Tubby Smith, who was a proven commodity and has a national championship on his resume, but is also just 27-37 in his first two seasons at Texas Tech.

My point is this....whether it is a proven free agent, or an up and comer with all the potential, it is literally impossible to project how someone will do here.

Makes sense. You have a certain amount of information and you project results. You have to look at their full resume and their most recent 5 years results. Obviously there are older coaches who have had illustrious careers but are in their twilight and would not be that sought after. I thought Lavin would do better than he did. I would even take Lavin's in season results if his post season results were better less all the distractions, like CO. It's not a total crap shoot you should know what you are buying.