Lavin

[monte]

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

What part of Lavin being a failure at rebuilding the once proud men's basketball don't you understand?

The TV Announcer was paid a reported $2M+ per year yet during his last 3 seasons he compiled a mediocre Big East record of just 28 wins and 24 losses.

A 28/24 record is a favorable ROI for the $6M+ investment?

Dude when he got hired we were the laughing stock of the conference. We were flat out embarrassing. there were years we weren't making out own conference tournament. How many consensus top 100 recruits did we get with Norm

It doesn't matter what he was paid. Was his first year not one of the best we have ever had as fans the last 20 years ?

Did we make the NCAA's twice in 5 years ?

Yes or no

And don't cherry pick 3 years. He was here 5 years and 1 year had cancer

Again he wasn't a great coach. He was average but average at st Johns is actually pretty good unfortunately.

You were ecstatic when he got hired too

And the salary was a reflection of our program sucking so bad no one wanting the job. Paul Hewitt ? Oh yeah that almost happened

And Mullin is getting paid more than Lavin most likely close to top 25 in college basketball and we can't hit foul shots at the end of the season which is probably one of the easier things to teach a player but you don't see me whining about that

Mike Norm's last year here the team went 17-16/6-12 with an NIT bid. He then turned over a roster to Lavin who took those same kids to the NCAA tournament. I give Lavin full credit for being able to do something with Norm's kids that Norm was not capable of doing. But what Lavin inherited was a far cry from what he left Chris. Had Lavin stayed, the team and state of the program would once again be considered the "laughing stock" of the conference. The only reason we are not is because of Chris and the staff. So while Lavin did invigorate the program, and while he had some good moments here, he left the program in worse shape than when he arrived. It's nothing personal(Sonny), it's just business.

All true, however, until we started getting towards the end of the season Lavin no doubt thought his roster for this year would include Jordan, Obekpa, Sampson, Mussini, Lovett, plus CJ, Felix and AMar. The fact that it didn't turn out that way and instead went all disaster on the team was reason enough to fire him and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But if that team had returned intact it would not have been a laughing stock. Just mediocre.

Yes, we would have been mediocre had the stars aligned. Jordan, CO and Lovett were huge question marks. And Mussini and Sampson hadn't signed their LOIs. Can you imagine how bad this team would have been had Lavin stayed and things panned out the same way with Jordan, CO, Lovett and Sampson? There are a lot of "what-ifs" both ways. We may have been mediocre, or we have have been the worst team in the history of the big east.

 

[room112]

At what point do we stop blaming Lavin, and start blaming St. John's who brought Lavin here? Had the "committee" done their homework, they could have easily vetted him and figured out he was a lazy recruiter and had numerous shortcomings as a coach, outside of being a good guy and very well spoken.

the thing is the committee did their job. We had the single best season in a long long time his 1st year. His first real recruiting class we got the best class I can ever remember us getting.

Then he got Gathers then he got cancer and things went downhill

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

Again it's not like they hired Norm which was a bona fide disaster. Even Jarvis and Mahoney I don't blame them for hiring

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this. If the cancer thing was such a hindrance to him doing his job, he should have resigned. I applaud him for the immediate impact he had, but he left the program in a mess for the next coach to clean up. What we needed was to have a true program builder who helped elevate us to the next level. Or how about this, the SJU administration hold him accountable for lack of effort on the recruiting trail and forced him to step it up? I blame both the school and the coach at the end of the day.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

What part of Lavin being a failure at rebuilding the once proud men's basketball don't you understand?

The TV Announcer was paid a reported $2M+ per year yet during his last 3 seasons he compiled a mediocre Big East record of just 28 wins and 24 losses.

A 28/24 record is a favorable ROI for the $6M+ investment?

Dude when he got hired we were the laughing stock of the conference. We were flat out embarrassing. there were years we weren't making out own conference tournament. How many consensus top 100 recruits did we get with Norm

It doesn't matter what he was paid. Was his first year not one of the best we have ever had as fans the last 20 years ?

Did we make the NCAA's twice in 5 years ?

Yes or no

And don't cherry pick 3 years. He was here 5 years and 1 year had cancer

Again he wasn't a great coach. He was average but average at st Johns is actually pretty good unfortunately.

You were ecstatic when he got hired too

And the salary was a reflection of our program sucking so bad no one wanting the job. Paul Hewitt ? Oh yeah that almost happened

And Mullin is getting paid more than Lavin most likely close to top 25 in college basketball and we can't hit foul shots at the end of the season which is probably one of the easier things to teach a player but you don't see me whining about that

Mike Norm's last year here the team went 17-16/6-12 with an NIT bid. He then turned over a roster to Lavin who took those same kids to the NCAA tournament. I give Lavin full credit for being able to do something with Norm's kids that Norm was not capable of doing. But what Lavin inherited was a far cry from what he left Chris. Had Lavin stayed, the team and state of the program would once again be considered the "laughing stock" of the conference. The only reason we are not is because of Chris and the staff. So while Lavin did invigorate the program, and while he had some good moments here, he left the program in worse shape than when he arrived. It's nothing personal(Sonny), it's just business.

All true, however, until we started getting towards the end of the season Lavin no doubt thought his roster for this year would include Jordan, Obekpa, Sampson, Mussini, Lovett, plus CJ, Felix and AMar. The fact that it didn't turn out that way and instead went all disaster on the team was reason enough to fire him and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But if that team had returned intact it would not have been a laughing stock. Just mediocre.

Yes, we would have been mediocre had the stars aligned. Jordan, CO and Lovett were huge question marks. And Mussini and Sampson hadn't signed their LOIs. Can you imagine how bad this team would have been had Lavin stayed and things panned out the same way with Jordan, CO, Lovett and Sampson? There are a lot of "what-ifs" both ways. We may have been mediocre, or we have have been the worst team in the history of the big east.

well we only have 8 wins now so it's not like we would have been too much worse in the win column

only difference is you might not have won as much money as you did this year on betting

 

[monte]

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

What part of Lavin being a failure at rebuilding the once proud men's basketball don't you understand?

The TV Announcer was paid a reported $2M+ per year yet during his last 3 seasons he compiled a mediocre Big East record of just 28 wins and 24 losses.

A 28/24 record is a favorable ROI for the $6M+ investment?

Dude when he got hired we were the laughing stock of the conference. We were flat out embarrassing. there were years we weren't making out own conference tournament. How many consensus top 100 recruits did we get with Norm

It doesn't matter what he was paid. Was his first year not one of the best we have ever had as fans the last 20 years ?

Did we make the NCAA's twice in 5 years ?

Yes or no

And don't cherry pick 3 years. He was here 5 years and 1 year had cancer

Again he wasn't a great coach. He was average but average at st Johns is actually pretty good unfortunately.

You were ecstatic when he got hired too

And the salary was a reflection of our program sucking so bad no one wanting the job. Paul Hewitt ? Oh yeah that almost happened

And Mullin is getting paid more than Lavin most likely close to top 25 in college basketball and we can't hit foul shots at the end of the season which is probably one of the easier things to teach a player but you don't see me whining about that

Mike Norm's last year here the team went 17-16/6-12 with an NIT bid. He then turned over a roster to Lavin who took those same kids to the NCAA tournament. I give Lavin full credit for being able to do something with Norm's kids that Norm was not capable of doing. But what Lavin inherited was a far cry from what he left Chris. Had Lavin stayed, the team and state of the program would once again be considered the "laughing stock" of the conference. The only reason we are not is because of Chris and the staff. So while Lavin did invigorate the program, and while he had some good moments here, he left the program in worse shape than when he arrived. It's nothing personal(Sonny), it's just business.

All true, however, until we started getting towards the end of the season Lavin no doubt thought his roster for this year would include Jordan, Obekpa, Sampson, Mussini, Lovett, plus CJ, Felix and AMar. The fact that it didn't turn out that way and instead went all disaster on the team was reason enough to fire him and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But if that team had returned intact it would not have been a laughing stock. Just mediocre.

Yes, we would have been mediocre had the stars aligned. Jordan, CO and Lovett were huge question marks. And Mussini and Sampson hadn't signed their LOIs. Can you imagine how bad this team would have been had Lavin stayed and things panned out the same way with Jordan, CO, Lovett and Sampson? There are a lot of "what-ifs" both ways. We may have been mediocre, or we have have been the worst team in the history of the big east.

well we only have 8 wins now so it's not like we would have been too much worse in the win column

only difference is you might not have won as much money as you did this year on betting

Good point But in all seriousness(if you can call this thread "serious"), we would not even been able to compete. We would have been a complete joke. Just thinking about what could have been makes me feel so much better about this season.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

What part of Lavin being a failure at rebuilding the once proud men's basketball don't you understand?

The TV Announcer was paid a reported $2M+ per year yet during his last 3 seasons he compiled a mediocre Big East record of just 28 wins and 24 losses.

A 28/24 record is a favorable ROI for the $6M+ investment?

Dude when he got hired we were the laughing stock of the conference. We were flat out embarrassing. there were years we weren't making out own conference tournament. How many consensus top 100 recruits did we get with Norm

It doesn't matter what he was paid. Was his first year not one of the best we have ever had as fans the last 20 years ?

Did we make the NCAA's twice in 5 years ?

Yes or no

And don't cherry pick 3 years. He was here 5 years and 1 year had cancer

Again he wasn't a great coach. He was average but average at st Johns is actually pretty good unfortunately.

You were ecstatic when he got hired too

And the salary was a reflection of our program sucking so bad no one wanting the job. Paul Hewitt ? Oh yeah that almost happened

And Mullin is getting paid more than Lavin most likely close to top 25 in college basketball and we can't hit foul shots at the end of the season which is probably one of the easier things to teach a player but you don't see me whining about that

Mike Norm's last year here the team went 17-16/6-12 with an NIT bid. He then turned over a roster to Lavin who took those same kids to the NCAA tournament. I give Lavin full credit for being able to do something with Norm's kids that Norm was not capable of doing. But what Lavin inherited was a far cry from what he left Chris. Had Lavin stayed, the team and state of the program would once again be considered the "laughing stock" of the conference. The only reason we are not is because of Chris and the staff. So while Lavin did invigorate the program, and while he had some good moments here, he left the program in worse shape than when he arrived. It's nothing personal(Sonny), it's just business.

All true, however, until we started getting towards the end of the season Lavin no doubt thought his roster for this year would include Jordan, Obekpa, Sampson, Mussini, Lovett, plus CJ, Felix and AMar. The fact that it didn't turn out that way and instead went all disaster on the team was reason enough to fire him and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But if that team had returned intact it would not have been a laughing stock. Just mediocre.

Yes, we would have been mediocre had the stars aligned. Jordan, CO and Lovett were huge question marks. And Mussini and Sampson hadn't signed their LOIs. Can you imagine how bad this team would have been had Lavin stayed and things panned out the same way with Jordan, CO, Lovett and Sampson? There are a lot of "what-ifs" both ways. We may have been mediocre, or we have have been the worst team in the history of the big east.

well we only have 8 wins now so it's not like we would have been too much worse in the win column

only difference is you might not have won as much money as you did this year on betting

Good point But in all seriousness(if you can call this thread "serious"), we would not even been able to compete. We would have been a complete joke. Just thinking about what could have been makes me feel so much better about this season.

I hear you. To me either way with Lavin or with Mullin this season was going to suck and I have gotten very little enjoyment out of it other than a handful of games

But we will always have syracuse

Oddly enough as bad as we are I don't dislike any of the players. Heck I have liked Ron all season. Not his defense but I think people would really like him coming off the bench on a team with a lot of talent in their starting 5 where he could come in and spot up 3's for 15 minutes

 

[monte]

Cant fault the committee for that. If I had to do it all over again based on who was available I'd still have hired Lavin.

What part of Lavin being a failure at rebuilding the once proud men's basketball don't you understand?

The TV Announcer was paid a reported $2M+ per year yet during his last 3 seasons he compiled a mediocre Big East record of just 28 wins and 24 losses.

A 28/24 record is a favorable ROI for the $6M+ investment?

Dude when he got hired we were the laughing stock of the conference. We were flat out embarrassing. there were years we weren't making out own conference tournament. How many consensus top 100 recruits did we get with Norm

It doesn't matter what he was paid. Was his first year not one of the best we have ever had as fans the last 20 years ?

Did we make the NCAA's twice in 5 years ?

Yes or no

And don't cherry pick 3 years. He was here 5 years and 1 year had cancer

Again he wasn't a great coach. He was average but average at st Johns is actually pretty good unfortunately.

You were ecstatic when he got hired too

And the salary was a reflection of our program sucking so bad no one wanting the job. Paul Hewitt ? Oh yeah that almost happened

And Mullin is getting paid more than Lavin most likely close to top 25 in college basketball and we can't hit foul shots at the end of the season which is probably one of the easier things to teach a player but you don't see me whining about that

Mike Norm's last year here the team went 17-16/6-12 with an NIT bid. He then turned over a roster to Lavin who took those same kids to the NCAA tournament. I give Lavin full credit for being able to do something with Norm's kids that Norm was not capable of doing. But what Lavin inherited was a far cry from what he left Chris. Had Lavin stayed, the team and state of the program would once again be considered the "laughing stock" of the conference. The only reason we are not is because of Chris and the staff. So while Lavin did invigorate the program, and while he had some good moments here, he left the program in worse shape than when he arrived. It's nothing personal(Sonny), it's just business.

All true, however, until we started getting towards the end of the season Lavin no doubt thought his roster for this year would include Jordan, Obekpa, Sampson, Mussini, Lovett, plus CJ, Felix and AMar. The fact that it didn't turn out that way and instead went all disaster on the team was reason enough to fire him and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But if that team had returned intact it would not have been a laughing stock. Just mediocre.

Yes, we would have been mediocre had the stars aligned. Jordan, CO and Lovett were huge question marks. And Mussini and Sampson hadn't signed their LOIs. Can you imagine how bad this team would have been had Lavin stayed and things panned out the same way with Jordan, CO, Lovett and Sampson? There are a lot of "what-ifs" both ways. We may have been mediocre, or we have have been the worst team in the history of the big east.

well we only have 8 wins now so it's not like we would have been too much worse in the win column

only difference is you might not have won as much money as you did this year on betting

Good point But in all seriousness(if you can call this thread "serious"), we would not even been able to compete. We would have been a complete joke. Just thinking about what could have been makes me feel so much better about this season.

I hear you. To me either way with Lavin or with Mullin this season was going to suck and I have gotten very little enjoyment out of it other than a handful of games

But we will always have syracuse

Oddly enough as bad as we are I don't dislike any of the players. Heck I have liked Ron all season. Not his defense but I think people would really like him coming off the bench on a team with a lot of talent in their starting 5 where he could come in and spot up 3's for 15 minutes

I love this team more than any team that I can remember. The kids all seem to have a true affinity for one another. Ron is a very good basketball player but just a few steps to slow to have a big impact at this level. But I love his spirit and Amar;s. It's been a tough year but not nearly as hard to swallow as I would have thought. Mostly because of the kids, but also because of what Chris and the staff are building here.

 

[Section3]

Lavin is a good guy. And I think he had bad luck with recruiting. Harmless and Jakarr leaving after 1 year; missing out on Gathers and Pelle, the early blowup of Lindsey, and his coaching limits doomed him and the team to some exciting but, overall, disappointing years.
Good guy.
Now let's do it with Mullin & Crew.

Recruiting failures were less about bad luck and more about a lack of work ethic.

i agree with you. i don't know what happened those last 2 years, but it almost seemed like he didn't care as much. he'd put all his chips on a kid like briscoe and when it didn't pan out, there was never a backup plan.

to this day, i feel bad it didn't work out. i liked him on a personal level and how he was the face of the school. but at the end of the day, it's about consistent results.

Doody...I think you hit it on the head...most posters were either in violent support of or simply OK with the fact that Lavin was fired...I think it is the personal attacks that persist 10 months after he was fired that vex many on the board...

Wherever one falls with respect to his coaching ability, work ethic, etc...it doesn't make him the anti-Christ...I don't pretend to know him but, unless there is something out there of which I am unaware, he seemed like a decent guy...

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

 

[mjmaherjr]

Lavin is a good guy. And I think he had bad luck with recruiting. Harmless and Jakarr leaving after 1 year; missing out on Gathers and Pelle, the early blowup of Lindsey, and his coaching limits doomed him and the team to some exciting but, overall, disappointing years.
Good guy.
Now let's do it with Mullin & Crew.

Recruiting failures were less about bad luck and more about a lack of work ethic.

i agree with you. i don't know what happened those last 2 years, but it almost seemed like he didn't care as much. he'd put all his chips on a kid like briscoe and when it didn't pan out, there was never a backup plan.

to this day, i feel bad it didn't work out. i liked him on a personal level and how he was the face of the school. but at the end of the day, it's about consistent results.

Doody...I think you hit it on the head...most posters were either in violent support of or simply OK with the fact that Lavin was fired...I think it is the personal attacks that persist 10 months after he was fired that vex many on the board...

Wherever one falls with respect to his coaching ability, work ethic, etc...it doesn't make him the anti-Christ...I don't pretend to know him but, unless there is something out there of which I am unaware, he seemed like a decent guy...

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

+10000

 

[redmannorth]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...[/quote]

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

Lavin is a good guy. And I think he had bad luck with recruiting. Harmless and Jakarr leaving after 1 year; missing out on Gathers and Pelle, the early blowup of Lindsey, and his coaching limits doomed him and the team to some exciting but, overall, disappointing years.
Good guy.
Now let's do it with Mullin & Crew.

Recruiting failures were less about bad luck and more about a lack of work ethic.

i agree with you. i don't know what happened those last 2 years, but it almost seemed like he didn't care as much. he'd put all his chips on a kid like briscoe and when it didn't pan out, there was never a backup plan.

to this day, i feel bad it didn't work out. i liked him on a personal level and how he was the face of the school. but at the end of the day, it's about consistent results.

Doody...I think you hit it on the head...most posters were either in violent support of or simply OK with the fact that Lavin was fired...I think it is the personal attacks that persist 10 months after he was fired that vex many on the board...

Wherever one falls with respect to his coaching ability, work ethic, etc...it doesn't make him the anti-Christ...I don't pretend to know him but, unless there is something out there of which I am unaware, he seemed like a decent guy...

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

+10000

Wow the ongoing Lavin " thing" - I think it was Mr. P who responded to me & wrote a while ago that we were "beating a dead horse" etc.

Well the horse has a little life yet and here's my conclusion, for what it's worth of course

This thread will not end until there's enough separation between Lavin & Mullin AND we get on with better recruits and more wins.

Let's face it better recruits and more wins are more fun and easier to live with.

Unfortunately or fortunately or whatever, some here will undoubtedly complain when we only win 20, or only make it to the sweet sixteen, complaining is part of their DNA as is over exuberance and at times unrealistic optimism (me)...trying to temper optimism, disparagement with a little reality: this year stinks, losing stinks, our kids play hard, the future is so bright.

Yes I'll try not to beat the horse any more. He's a nice horse. Has suffered enough this year - as we have with the Ls.

But the kids on this team are great, the staff has done their best, and that damn future can't get here fast enough - it's so very bright - our future - like the sky tonight February 26, 2016!
I've never seen such a brilliant masterpiece overhead.
I'm glad I looked up.
all the best
& sorry for any typos...

 

[monte]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head RN. Great post.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I think ccnobz should be forced to bet the over on whatever vegas has our ft % made odds at the next game for starting this thread.

That's a bet even our gambling man will regret

 

[JohnnyFan]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.[/quote]

Agree......nice post.

 

[Mike]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.[/quote]

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.

 

[monte]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.[/quote]

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.[/quote]




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less

 

[Section3]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.[/quote]

You're entitled to your opinion..I am entitled to mine...the point of the message was that I believe that the angst felt by some is based on the personal nature of the attacks - not the fact that he was fired...just my opinion

In any event, thanks for the lecture on European values...Although I will turn 60 it's never too late to learn...I will read up on it...

 

[paultzman]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.

You're entitled to your opinion..I am entitled to mine...the point of the message was that I believe that the angst felt by some is based on the personal nature of the attacks - not the fact that he was fired...just my opinion

In any event, thanks for the lecture on European values...Although I will turn 60 it's never too late to learn...I will read up on it...

[/quote]

Oh my, "European values". The only Euro value I am interested in is a kid from Europe who can play.

 

[beast of the east]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself.

Not your main point, but the reality of the Norm hire is very simple. I know some of the people involved and I won't name names. Too many times names have been mentioned.

Norm was the setup finalist. Real Estate agents do this all the time. They want to sell you a specific house, so they show you two other houses as "finalists" that are so far inferior they make your decision easy.

That was done in the Roberts case. The committee wanted one specific guy (who has been named again and again) so they gave Harrington a couple of guys to interview as a final decision - the person of choice, and Roberts. He was never considered a serious candidate for the HC position. It was a setup to get Harrington to do the obvious - select the other guy.

Roberts for his part, did what he naturally does best - he was charming, warm, likeable. Harrington was really impressed by how he presented himself and his character, and immediately decided that was who the next HC would be - much to the chagrin and anger of the committee members in charge. The fallout has been well documented, and won't be repeated.

The bottom line is that Harrington was totally inept, not a sports guy, and should have completely left the decision to others.

 

[redmannorth]

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.

I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less[/quote]

Mj I truly respect your honesty as you end by saying " I just respect them less ". I have zero respect for Lavin and as I said the anti Christ is reserved for Jarvis alone.
As for Lavin the difference between him and many of the people you select, teachers, police officers is they are not in the public eye and perhaps make 5% of what Lavin was paid by a catholic university that is struggling financially. I hear what you are saying but they are not valid comparisons in my opinion. As for stock brokers and lawyers, I can tell you as a lawyer in a large firm you eat what you kill. If you perform poorly your income will start to drop rapidly. Very little is guaranteed. I know with my broker if he performs poorly the account is pulled and transferred elsewhere. I imagine it is the same in your office. You have to perform and can only coast for so long.
As for me if I was making a gajillion dollars like Lavin was and I could no longer perform but could make half or one third of that gajillion dollars working much less I would leave in a minute with my head held high and reputation intact. And that is the truth.
And had Lavin left after year two or three for whatever his personal reasons were he would be greatly respected by this board.