Lavin

[paultzman]

Isn't this horse a thousand times dead by now?

 

[Jack Williams]

Isn't this horse a thousand times dead by now?

Yes but we are fans of a catholic university Paultz, we believe in resurrections

 

[ManhattAn1]

I traveled out to UCLA the first year, after the game I met Lavin in the lobby of the hotel and spoke to him for about an hour. He kept the conversation going as I did not want to bother him. He was new to NY and he was asking me advice on whether or not his wife should go on Boomer and Carton. I struck up a friendship with him throughout his remaining years and still keep in touch with him today. He is definitely a good guy, I will not defend his recruiting over the past three years as I do agree it slacked but he is not a bad guy.

I will say those Boston guys are not good guys, I was out at a function with them and they ran up the tab on schools dime and refused to pay in the end.

 

[sirvoo]

Don't worry MJ, half of these posters don't get it. Before long they'll turn on Mullin too.

I've been occasionally lurking over at Rumble at the Garden, and one poster has already turned on him. The poster actually turned on Mullin about a month or two ago. I have a keen feeling the poster also resides on this board.

Of course you do. Love it. Who are the prime suspects, spill the names.

Also, on this topic, there isn't a damn thing that hasn't already been said about Lavin. We've covered it all. I despised the guy for a solid 2.5 years ahead of most on here, but I certainly don't hold any animosity towards him anymore. "Ain't no time to hate, barely time to wait!"

 

[we are sju]

Isn't this horse a thousand times dead by now?

Of the many things that baffle me on here the Lavin hatred might be number one. We have certainly had worse coaches since Louie. Wasnot as destructive as Jarvis turned out to be(who I don't hate either BTW) and certainly not as inept as Norm was. Very confusing!

 

[Jack Williams]

Don't worry MJ, half of these posters don't get it. Before long they'll turn on Mullin too.

I've been occasionally lurking over at Rumble at the Garden, and one poster has already turned on him. The poster actually turned on Mullin about a month or two ago. I have a keen feeling the poster also resides on this board.

Of course you do. Love it. Who are the prime suspects, spill the names.

It's me

 

[Andrew]

The problem is that Lavin was like the wife who got your house and all the money in the divorce and now you have to watch her on TV talking about your favorite team at half time of their games. I know politics are taboo on this board but there is a certain presidential candidate who when they speak I have to mute the TV like I do when Lavin speaks.

This is becoming a mystery thread. The turncoat that Dinkins discovered and these Boston guys that sound like they came out of a movie.

 

[we are sju]

The problem is that Lavin was like the wife who got your house and all the money in the divorce and now you have to watch her on TV talking about your favorite team at half time of their games. I know politics are taboo on this board but there is a certain presidential candidate who when they speak I have to mute the TV like I do when Lavin speaks.

This is becoming a mystery thread. The turncoat that Dinkins discovered and these Boston guys that sound like they came out of a movie.

I think the cure for hating Lavin would be to grab a beer and some chips and re-watch any game during the Norm years. Lavin hatred will go down by like 25% at least

 

[monte]

At the end of the day, most of this pro-Lavin vs. anti-Lavin dialogue is simply bar stool type banter. That's what we do here, and it's what all sports message boards do. If you're so overly sensitive to it I strongly suggest staying off a thread titled "Lavin", which everyone knows is going to elicit debate about his comments on FAN and about his tenure here.

 

[monte]

The problem is that Lavin was like the wife who got your house and all the money in the divorce and now you have to watch her on TV talking about your favorite team at half time of their games. I know politics are taboo on this board but there is a certain presidential candidate who when they speak I have to mute the TV like I do when Lavin speaks.

This is becoming a mystery thread. The turncoat that Dinkins discovered and these Boston guys that sound like they came out of a movie.

As someone who is divorced, that's a very good analogy Andrew.

 

[monte]

The problem is that Lavin was like the wife who got your house and all the money in the divorce and now you have to watch her on TV talking about your favorite team at half time of their games. I know politics are taboo on this board but there is a certain presidential candidate who when they speak I have to mute the TV like I do when Lavin speaks.

This is becoming a mystery thread. The turncoat that Dinkins discovered and these Boston guys that sound like they came out of a movie.

I think the cure for hating Lavin would be to grab a beer and some chips and re-watch any game during the Norm years. Lavin hatred will go down by like 25% at least

If Norm had succeeded here it would have been against all odds. No track record, no real coaching ability, no budget for recruiting or hiring staff, hands tied on type of kids he could recruit, and hired coming off the worst period in our program's history. As I like to say about my ex, the wrong person at the right time. Norm was a complete failure, but he had plenty of help in failing. Lavin a completely different story.

 

[fun]

This is becoming a mystery thread. The turncoat that Dinkins discovered and these Boston guys that sound like they came out of a movie.

Real fan is obviously Whitey Bulger.

 

[we are sju]

As many excuses as you think Lavin had Norm had 100 times more for someone who accomplished nothing in professional life other than being a good assistant. And Jarvis was plain arrogant to some

I had almost forgot how many excuses Norm would make after every, single loss (and, there were many..... losses and excuses). He also started doing too much whining on the sidelines. Jarvis came off too much like a goody two-shoes. Mahoney couldn't coach his way out of a wet, paper bag. His time at St. John's, other than his first season, felt like being cooped up in a water torture cell.... Horrible.

I'm a Redskins fan, and Norv Turner and Jim Zorn were the pits. Turner had the same freakin' spiel after each loss (paraphrase).... "What we do works." Hearing him say that was like listening to Roseanne Barr attempt to sing. He never really seemed confident, IMO, either. I said my piece a time or two once he was gone, then moved on.

Some folks act if they're jealous of Lavin or something. Did Lavin piss on some of y'all's ride? Banged your woman or someone you would've liked to banged? Kicked your dog or cat? I haven't liked several coaches from teams that I like, but once they're gone, then so be it. Great! Good riddance!

It's not that serious in the grand scheme of things. Folks wanted him gone and still can't stop talking about him. It's like breaking up with a woman, and still being perturbed with her and talk about her at every, single turn. The previous one may have left you with a couple of unpaid bills that needs taken care of, but that should be cleared up very shortly. If you truly believe your new "woman" is better than the previous, and things will eventually turn out A-OK in the end, then who gives a rat's arse about the one you booted.

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

 

[MJDinkins]

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

LOL That's a good one!

I'm trying to think of another Redskin and St. John's fan. I'm stumped. I can count on one hand, and probably will still have a finger or two left when it comes to Johnnies fans only whom I've encountered in my area.

That is a bit weird we're both fans of the same college hoops and pro football teams, respectively. It's all to the good, though. B)

 

[L J S A]

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

LOL That's a good one!

I'm trying to think of another Redskin and St. John's fan. I'm stumped. I can count on one hand, and probably will still have a finger or two left when it comes to Johnnies fans only whom I've encountered in my area.

That is a bit weird we're both fans of the same college hoops and pro football teams, respectively. It's all to the good, though. B)

Do you guys like the Chicago Blackhawks and Cleveland Indians too?

 

[we are sju]

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

LOL That's a good one!

I'm trying to think of another Redskin and St. John's fan. I'm stumped. I can count on one hand, and probably will still have a finger or two left when it comes to Johnnies fans only whom I've encountered in my area.

That is a bit weird we're both fans of the same college hoops and pro football teams, respectively. It's all to the good, though. B)

Was a Jet fan as a little kid. When they lost AFC title game to Dolphins in a Monsoon, I rooted for Skins in Super Bowl. Loved Riggins, Smurfs, Hogs, Dexter Manley's mohawk and Theismann and have been a fan ever since. Only non NY team I root for.

 

[MJDinkins]

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

LOL That's a good one!

I'm trying to think of another Redskin and St. John's fan. I'm stumped. I can count on one hand, and probably will still have a finger or two left when it comes to Johnnies fans only whom I've encountered in my area.

That is a bit weird we're both fans of the same college hoops and pro football teams, respectively. It's all to the good, though. B)

Was a Jet fan as a little kid. When they lost AFC title game to Dolphins in a Monsoon, I rooted for Skins in Super Bowl. Loved Riggins, Smurfs, Hogs, Dexter Manley's mohawk and Theismann and have been a fan ever since. Only non NY team I root for.

I was a Steeler fan when I first started watching football in '78 (yeah.... I started out very young). Then, I became a 'Skins fan the following season, as I basically watched football every Sunday during the '79 campaign. The Redskins was the regional NFC team in my area during those days.

We had a heckuva run from about the midway point of the '81 season (after starting out 0-5 to finish up at 8-8 during Gibbs' first season) through the '92 season.

 

[we are sju]

Redskin and Redmen fan, clearly you are not Native American lol
BTW I am a Skin fan too which makes us probably only two Johnnie and skin fans around. Weird

LOL That's a good one!

I'm trying to think of another Redskin and St. John's fan. I'm stumped. I can count on one hand, and probably will still have a finger or two left when it comes to Johnnies fans only whom I've encountered in my area.

That is a bit weird we're both fans of the same college hoops and pro football teams, respectively. It's all to the good, though. B)

Was a Jet fan as a little kid. When they lost AFC title game to Dolphins in a Monsoon, I rooted for Skins in Super Bowl. Loved Riggins, Smurfs, Hogs, Dexter Manley's mohawk and Theismann and have been a fan ever since. Only non NY team I root for.

I was a Steeler fan when I first started watching football in '78 (yeah.... I started out very young). Then, I became a 'Skins fan the following season, as I basically watched football every Sunday during the '79 campaign. The Redskins was the regional NFC team in my area during those days.

We had a heckuva run from about the midway point of the '81 season (after starting out 0-5 to finish up at 8-8 during Gibbs' first season) through the '92 season.

Interesting parallels with two teams. End of good times came when head coach retired and basically handpicked his asst to replace him.(Mahoney / Pettibone)

 

[beast of the east]

mj,

In the scheme of StJohn's basketball, what difference does it make whether your pal "Lav" was a "good guy"?

by recording a mediocre in conference winning percentage of just 57%

I've gone of record many times as being in favor of releasing Lavin and hiring Mullin,

However, a "mediocre" in conference winning of 57% would mean you averaged 10.26 wins per season in conference. On average that puts you on the NCAA bubble, and in every season except the cancer year, the teams he put on the floor were in contention for an NCAA bid.

Anyone here would be lying 100% if they said they wouldn't have signed up in an instant for a coach who would deliver 2 NCAA bids in 5 seasons, and have us in contention near the end of season for bids the other 3
seasons.

Firing Lavin was the correct move, but nowhere near as easy as firing Roberts, as the redmen.com survey posed here at the end of the season clearly supports.

 

[mjmaherjr]

mj,

In the scheme of StJohn's basketball, what difference does it make whether your pal "Lav" was a "good guy"?

The fact of the matter is that Lav was reportedly paid a big time salary by StJohn's of $2M per year with the expectation that he would build a winning program but failed to do so by recording a mediocre in conference winning percentage of just 57% during which time Lav failed to balance the roster, failed to recruit sufficient quantity of Big East talent, and failed to control on and off court drama, the combination of which the Administration found unacceptable.

Yeah, it's great that you and others shared personal moments with Lav but the reality is that despite being a "good guy" he has failed at both of his 2 head coaching jobs having been fired at UCLA and StJohn's. Despite being a "good guy" there is no evidence that any college is beating Lav's door down to hire him to coach next season.

Like yourself, I speak to people associated with college basketball programs. A close friend that is paid associate with an ACC team regularly mocked the work ethic of "good guy" Lav and his staff of the recruiting trail. That same individual does not mock the work ethic of Mullin,who as you have pointed out, sometimes sits on the scorers table.

The reality is that Lavin left the StJohn's program with less talent than he inherited from Norm Roberts.

Lavin is history. It is time to look forward.

I said he was an average coach and I honestly down really care that he got fired. He certainly wasn't A bad coach for us and did more for us in getting the program back to respectability.

If he was here this year the roster very well might have been the same or slightly better for this year because we didn't let him finish recruiting and unlike Norm Lavin was able to recruit even though it tailed off dramatically at the end

In no way shape or form am I defending Lavin for the position he left us in ( albeit after an ncaa appearance )

My only point is he isn't a bad guy and people keep on criticizing him personally on the boards as a bad guy ( not calling you out Monte because there are many ) when in fact he isn't a bad guy. He is a guy who was getting paid a lot of money to do a job and he did an average job but better than some other st johns coaches we have had in the past

Time to move forward but imagine if someone was a lawyer and they lost a case and all the people asccoicated on the losing end of the case started calling that lawyer a bad guy when in fact he could be the nicest guy in the world who just happened to lose the case