Lavin

Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...
Click to expand...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.
Click to expand...

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess :)

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less
Click to expand...

Mj I truly respect your honesty as you end by saying " I just respect them less ". I have zero respect for Lavin and as I said the anti Christ is reserved for Jarvis alone.
As for Lavin the difference between him and many of the people you select, teachers, police officers is they are not in the public eye and perhaps make 5% of what Lavin was paid by a catholic university that is struggling financially. I hear what you are saying but they are not valid comparisons in my opinion. As for stock brokers and lawyers, I can tell you as a lawyer in a large firm you eat what you kill. If you perform poorly your income will start to drop rapidly. Very little is guaranteed. I know with my broker if he performs poorly the account is pulled and transferred elsewhere. I imagine it is the same in your office. You have to perform and can only coast for so long.
As for me if I was making a gajillion dollars like Lavin was and I could no longer perform but could make half or one third of that gajillion dollars working much less I would leave in a minute with my head held high and reputation intact. And that is the truth.
And had Lavin left after year two or three for whatever his personal reasons were he would be greatly respected by this board.[/quote]

North, I respect your opinions & value your posts. However, if Lavin was your client, with a guaranteed period remaining on his contract, wouldn't you recommend he not leave money on the table upon termination? Maybe I missed something, since I did not read all the posts above in detail.
 
the idea of leaving a check behind in good faith is silly.

It was negotiated and agreed by both parties knowing there is inherent risk of early termination....

It's a business...
 
"As long, as some folks just keep talkin'.... They'll show you just who they are," was a quote my now 103 year old grandmother would occasionally say when I was growing up. IMO, as a handful of y'all continue to disparage Lavin as a person instead of a coach, you just come off showing your true colors as a person. In some ways, the guy went out of his way to converse with me upon first meeting him. Some people are good at hiding their BS and who they are as a person, but I also consider myself to be good at detecting a sketchy person.

There was a guy who I was talking to at the Peach Jam about three years ago, and he said Roy Williams didn't particularly come off graciously when he attempted to strike up a conversation with him. He said, Williams seemed even more standoffish when he asked Williams to sign a UNC basketball program. IMO, I believed him because Roy Williams has shown a jerk side, per interviews and games on tv. I've never detected such from Lavin. If some of y'all think Lavin is a BS'er.... Well, most of these coaches are BS'ers to a degree. In order to land recruits and deal with 'em, then you have to somewhat jive around. But he doesn't strike me as a BS'er as an overall person.

I also doubt one person on this board would leave a check behind in good faith. Flat out nonsense. It's a business, as RedStormNC stated.
 
the idea of leaving a check behind in good faith is silly.

It was negotiated and agreed by both parties knowing there is inherent risk of early termination....

It's a business...
Click to expand...

Exactly. It should also be noted, according to what I hear, one of our ACs has a lucrative five year contract, not sure what the guarantee is. The school, as many have noted, has its financial challenges, but has still made a sizable investment in this staff.
 
the idea of leaving a check behind in good faith is silly.

It was negotiated and agreed by both parties knowing there is inherent risk of early termination....

It's a business...
Click to expand...

Exactly. It should also be noted, according to what I hear, one of our ACs has a lucrative five year contract, not sure what the guarantee is. The school, as many have noted, has its financial challenges, but has still made a sizable investment in this staff.
Click to expand...

The school is also receiving $4 million/yr from the TV contract, as well as a sizable endorsement deal with Under Armour. I'm sure they have contractual obligations to invest in the program. In the end, they are making money.
 
Section3




That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...

Isn't his job to comment on the program when asked about it?
Just doing his job like we all try to do.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...
Click to expand...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.
Click to expand...

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess :)

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less
Click to expand...

Mj I truly respect your honesty as you end by saying " I just respect them less ". I have zero respect for Lavin and as I said the anti Christ is reserved for Jarvis alone.
As for Lavin the difference between him and many of the people you select, teachers, police officers is they are not in the public eye and perhaps make 5% of what Lavin was paid by a catholic university that is struggling financially. I hear what you are saying but they are not valid comparisons in my opinion. As for stock brokers and lawyers, I can tell you as a lawyer in a large firm you eat what you kill. If you perform poorly your income will start to drop rapidly. Very little is guaranteed. I know with my broker if he performs poorly the account is pulled and transferred elsewhere. I imagine it is the same in your office. You have to perform and can only coast for so long.
As for me if I was making a gajillion dollars like Lavin was and I could no longer perform but could make half or one third of that gajillion dollars working much less I would leave in a minute with my head held high and reputation intact. And that is the truth.
And had Lavin left after year two or three for whatever his personal reasons were he would be greatly respected by this board.
Click to expand...

North, I respect your opinions & value your posts. However, if Lavin was your client, with a guaranteed period remaining on his contract, wouldn't you recommend he not leave money on the table upon termination? Maybe I missed something, since I did not read all the posts above in detail.[/quote]

Of course he would, then collect the 30% commission ;)
 
Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...
Click to expand...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.
Click to expand...

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess :)

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less[/quote]

You can answer for me anytime since we tend to think the same way. lol
 
Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...
Click to expand...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.
Click to expand...

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess :)

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less[/quote]

Mike and Mike, I've faulted Lavin for a lot of things, but accepting guaranteed money is not one of them. And as you both have said, lots of people accept a paycheck and don't give anywhere near 100. But frankly when it comes not giving 100% at work, the only people I give a crap about are my employees and the head basketball coach at my beloved alma mater.
 
Section3

That said, he dropped the ball and paid the price...
Click to expand...

No he did not pay any price. He made out like a bandit. He is getting paid by SJU and by Fox. He Did not have to endure a 5 win season next to his name. He didn't have to go through a season where all that was discussed is his firing at the end of the season. The new president did him the biggest favour possible.
Personally I believe a lot of where you stand on Lavin is based upon your age. I believe those of us over 50 who grew up with European values and especially that of hard work above all don't understand how you can take $2million a season from a catholic school in good conscience and be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I certainly don't know how he can live with himself. Whether it was his cancer , his fathers death or whatever that caused him to loose interest he should have resigned years ago and returned to the booth. And no he is not the anti Christ , that distinction at SJU is reserved for Jarvis but I personally do not have an iota of respect for Lavin. He and Rico just took the schools money without a care in the world.
As for Norm Roberts he never should have been hired. Never but unfortunately he was by a crooked president who did a great job of deflecting attention from himself. However Norm was a very decent man who left the program in better shape than he found it 17 wins versus 6 and who worked to the very end. For that reason I harbour zero ill will towards him.
Click to expand...

Since I am only 42 years old, I didn't grow up on this "European Values," The values I learned came from my parents who has no clue what "European Values" are if I asked them today. I have also worked with a bunch of lazy 50+ year old people too just collecting a paycheck until retirement so they must've skipped this very important "European Values" and hard work.

I can also guarantee you that 99.99999% of the people would still take the money from a guaranteed contract, no one would say i failed keep the money. lol Doesn't matter if it was coming from a Catholic University or not and if people say no way they are lying. It's easy to say that to make someone sound bad until you are in the same situation.
Click to expand...

Mike are you suggesting that until one of us becomes a head coach at a DI school, makes a few mil a year for doing a half ass job, and then gets fired(and leaves the program in shambles) and continues to collect a hefty paycheck, that we're in no position to criticize Lavin? Many of us, including me, feel that Lavin could have and would have succeeded here had he given it his all. The fact that he didn't, still rubs many of us he wrong way. The fact that we are suffering through our worse season ever because of him doesn't help none. That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...




I shouldn't speak for Mike but since my name is Mike too I'll give it my best Mike Guess :)

I THINK what he is saying doesn't exactly have to pertain just to SJU basketball. I THINK is what he is saying is there is virtually not 1 person on earth would voluntarily give up a GUARANTEED contract no matter what their job and no matter what they are doing.

I see it in my business and we don't even get salary. We get paid by fees and there are people much older than me who come in and coast because they know they have fees coming in as long as the market doesn't get destroyed or because they have a partner doing all the work who is too nice to kick that person out of the partnership because they have been working together for so long. I know people who are police officers who are older who aren't on patrol anymore who just coast because they can and they are collecting big paycheck ( nassau and suffolk ) and also because as long as they show up not only are they getting paid but they are building credits toward the insane pensions they get

I know teachers ( some ) who most definitely coast as they get older because they have tenure

I know lawyers ( some ) who coast based on their previous reputation that they built up who coast because people need an attorney for divorce or estate planning and they do virtually no work or most definitely half ass it and then the kids have huge problems with the estate later on

So basiclly I THINK what Mike is saying is virtually no one gives up guaranteed money in all walks of life especially when they don't give up smaller amounts than Lavins

People half ass it in all walks of like. Doesn't make them bad people but I just respect them less[/quote]

Mike and Mike, I've faulted Lavin for a lot of things, but accepting guaranteed money is not one of them. And as you both have said, lots of people accept a paycheck and don't give anywhere near 100. But frankly when it comes not giving 100% at work, the only people I give a crap about are my employees and the head basketball coach at my beloved alma mater.
 
Thread would be slightly less terrible if you guys knew how to use the quote function.
 
Section3




That he seems to be incessantly commenting on our program on TV and radio just add fuel to the fire. If you think this is bad, try going on a UCLA board and starting a "Lavin" thread, as Beast suggested, the comments there will make ours seem like compliments.
Click to expand...

Isn't his job to comment on the program when asked about it?
Just doing his job like we all try to do.
Click to expand...

Agree he's got a job to do. It was an observation, not a criticism. Our reactions to his appearances is not his fault nor is it his concern.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thread would be slightly less terrible if you guys knew how to use the quote function.
Click to expand...
Or not used at all. Way overused, have to constantly scroll down 15 posts. Should be used more judiciously. :holdbreath:
 
I guess my idea of having a Redmen.com get together at Monte's apartment, honoring Steve Lavin, may merit reconsideration.
 
I guess my idea of having a Redmen.com get together at Monte's apartment, honoring Steve Lavin, may merit reconsideration.
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The atmosphere at the Monte household for a Lavin party will be colder than the polar vortex that hovers over Redmannorth's house in canada in the wintertime :)

And according to Monte Lavin double dips his chips which makes matters worse
 
Thread would be slightly less terrible if you guys knew how to use the quote function.
Click to expand...
Or not used at all. Way overused, have to constantly scroll down 15 posts. Should be used more judiciously. :holdbreath:
Click to expand...

Without quoting who you are talking to it would look like you were just talking to yourself.

Oh wait
 
I guess my idea of having a Redmen.com get together at Monte's apartment, honoring Steve Lavin, may merit reconsideration.
Click to expand...


I'm down provided we can get the 3 guys from Boston there,
 
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