I Wonder Why?

[1and1sju]

I wonder why people on this board still insist that they know more about the game of basketball than our coaching staff.....

I wonder why people here consider themselves the next coming of John Wooden......

I sure hope that attempting to put me down makes you feel better about yourself, Peanut Boy. I wonder why there are people like you, who have no other way to express their jealousy and insecurities. Why don't you start by stating an idea of your own...or do you have to be a professional coach to know something about this game.?

You want me to start by stating an idea of my own? I won't, and there is a reason for it. There isn't an idea that I could come up with that our coaching staff hasn't already thought of.

While your ideas and suggestions may make sense, they are not new ideas. You made it sound like you were the first person ever to come up with these ideas. I'm really sorry, but you weren't.

With all of the years and experience that our coaching staff has, I promise you that whatever thought you may have, they have already thought of. Or whatever criticism you have about one of the players, they have already noticed it.

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.[/quote]

THIS. IS. SUCH. BALONEY.

doc and peanut, you are both ridiculously misguided. There are some very knowledgeable basketball-people on this board and in the stands at SJU games. Former NBA officials, HS coaches, D1 players, and yes..college coaches and former coaches. But their credentials are besides the point; you don't need to be anything more than a ballplayer or former coach at any level above middle school to see some of the errors that are made by this staff. A staff that is far from above reproach.
Lets be clear; Lavin was out of coaching for nearly a decade, and when he came back dunlap ran practices. Hines is a trainer. He was never a basketball coach until he got this job, and the same for Darrick martin, he was a front office guy after he retired.
Whitesell comes from good stock apparently, but you have to wonder how much of a leash he is given, considering Lavin told Dunlap he didn't want him back, presumably because he had issues giving up too much control.

The second, and equally important point, is that you don't need to know every bit of minutia about a position's job tasks to make a decision about personnel. You vote for president don't you? Have you ever managed a war or written a federal budget?
You choose characteristics and policy tests that guide your decisision. It's no different here. Fans don't need to be experts to know the program needs a change of leadership.

 

[redfazed]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

 

[Class of 72]

I wonder why as I watch the Kentucky vs. and unranked Providence team in front of a packed Rupp arena sea of blue how we could have thought Briscoe would rather have been on the floor at MSG vs 10th ranked Gonzaga and 5500 fans.

I take it you don't travel much. Comparing Lexington to NYC is like comparing Paris and Kabul for nightlife options. I doubt That little turd Briscoe decided to sign with Kentucky because every Herb in the county takes their female cousin that they are dating to a Cats game.
As for the 5500 fans that attended on Black Friday they should be commended after being deflated yet again by a staff that had no vision to plan for this season with a marquee signing and instead lost its two best recruits to questionable academic issues. Add to that no buzz for the fans for reloading with talent next year.....which is all Kentucky does....and you get the picture. I feel for the St. John's students that have to trek 15 miles into NYC while Lavin limos home a few blocks south with the very hot Mary.

Hardly. I have had clients just outside of Lexington, and also just outside of Louisville. I've been to tiny towns most people have never heard of, and nearly every major city. You think Queens is NYC? You think being on campus in Jamaica is the same as being on Broadway? You think its that easy for a kid with no money and no car to enjoy NYC in his "free time" when you practice 5 days a week October to March, and play 30+ games in between. Our problem, even on Redmen.com, is that for most of our fans, the next major life event will be their own funeral, and who cannot get the mediocrity of our glory days out of our heads. In reality the reason we have any appreciable fan base at all is because of this decrepit crowd who was sold on SJU basketball for life when the postseason was a given. Remove all of us who lived those days, and our fan base is in the hundreds, if not less. Sad

You pretty much have confirmed what I have always suspected about guys like you that resent being a redmen fan. You never got into Fordham, had to become a travelling salesman selling condoms in little towns outside of metropolises like Lexington, you bitch about the school and it failure to not be your imaginary Fordham and even debase the "glory" days with final fours and sweet 16's as mediocre. Self loathing old bastards like yourself are part of that decrepit crowd that pretty much have no insight into the state of the program, let alone the school you were lucky to have attended. I am harsh on the staff for doing a poor job but I don't spit on the heads of my fellow fans sitting in a lower section. You owe the fans here and the students an apology.

Funny SJU is 12 miles from NYC, and access via public transportation takes a bus and a subway - an hour at least. I do think that if the school offered housing in Manhattan for athletes and some courses available there, then NYC would be a big attraction for recruits. I don't think there is any question that our fan base is mostly comprised of people who were around when this program routinely had a post season, and now conveniently forget how in Lou Carnesecca's 24 seasons, only 5 times did we advance past the second round of the NCAA tourney. One of Doc Butler's laments was that we drew only 5500 to MSG for a top ten team. My point was to contrast that UK was able to pack the house for Providence, and as such why would Briscoe want to play games at a mostly vacant MSG compared to a packed Rupp.

On my choice, of schools, you are right about one thing - Fordham wasn't an option, as presumptuous as you are. I think most of us around from the glory days should be more than willing to open our check books to thank St. John's for a dirt cheap tuition that have served many of us well. However, being a graduate of a Catholic University, I sold the rhythm method instead of condoms.

Man oh man, what keeps you coming back for more things negative to point out about the school you seemingly love to hate! Your latest missive now brings up an icon that worked without guaranteed contracts, took the school to post season every year, and find fault with the fact that he only got out of the second round of the NCAA with a bunch of NYC kids on five occasions? That he did what he did without a McDonald all American filled team every year like Kentucky, UNC, Kansas and UCLA does not seem to make a freaking dent in that noodle of yours! Nothing has changed since Louie except the salary paid to poor coaching choices. The top echelon of college basketball stay there by hiring great recruiters. Even Kentucky knew when to cut bait with Joe B. Hall when he could not get the players and Rupp was not selling out. UNC quickly fired Matt the stockbroker when they found out he was insane on a Bobby Gonzalez level. The difference between having 7000 fans in the stands at MSG and 12000 (a great number for NYC) is a team with talent, promise and player buzz like we had with the Sealy's, Mullin, Artest eras. Lavin may have delivered some nationally ranked out of staters but they have all had flaws that have not won the hearts and minds of your NYC non alums. Maurice Harkless was the only NYC player of that level yet he stayed only one year and had ZERO personality to win the loyalty of the average New Yorker the way Malik Sealy George Johnson or Ron Artest had.
Finally, stop the moronic comparisons with small town colleges like Kansas and Kentucky where the life blood of the local economy depends on the success of the basketball program. I was stationed in three different small southern towns while in the military. The local high schools regularly sold out their 10000 seat stadiums every Friday night. Villanova had FSB aspirations while barely half filling their 12000 seat stadium. A fair comparison? NO! Same reason we should not crap on St. John's when discussing fan support vis-a-vis Lexington or Knoxville or wherever.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

 

[TX Redman]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

 

[Class of 72]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

 

[redfazed]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

I'm naive? Then please enlighten me. Are you saying that Myles Stewart is on academic scholarship? By the way, SJU was the only D1 school interested in him.

 

[Moose]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

I'm naive? Then please enlighten me. Are you saying that Myles Stewart is on academic scholarship? By the way, SJU was the only D1 school interested in him.

Myles Stewart has made great use of July. The 6-foot-3 shooting guard from Los Angeles (Calif.) Westchester has been strong for Cal Supreme, and he played well on Friday. Stewart hits shots, he does just enough off the dribble to keep defenders honest, and he's a good defender. A three-star prospect, Stewart said on Friday that he's yet to receive his first offer, but that will soon change. Among those who have shown interest are Pepperdine, USC, Loyola Marymount, Cal State Northridge and Cal State Bakersfield.

*He had a knee injury that halted his development. Its a small sample size but its pretty clear he's better than a walkon. Hope he stays and intrigued to see him develop over 4 years.

 

[redfazed]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

I'm naive? Then please enlighten me. Are you saying that Myles Stewart is on academic scholarship? By the way, SJU was the only D1 school interested in him.

Myles Stewart has made great use of July. The 6-foot-3 shooting guard from Los Angeles (Calif.) Westchester has been strong for Cal Supreme, and he played well on Friday. Stewart hits shots, he does just enough off the dribble to keep defenders honest, and he's a good defender. A three-star prospect, Stewart said on Friday that he's yet to receive his first offer, but that will soon change. Among those who have shown interest are Pepperdine, USC, Loyola Marymount, Cal State Northridge and Cal State Bakersfield.

*He had a knee injury that halted his development. Its a small sample size but its pretty clear he's better than a walkon. Hope he stays and intrigued to see him develop over 4 years.

From NY Post:
" Division I schools liked him, but offers never came."

My original point is that if he's better than a walkon, why is he forking over $40k a year, while Amar gets his way paid? Doesn't make sense. Then again, I should probably stop trying to apply logic to these situations.

 

[beast of the east]

I wonder why as I watch the Kentucky vs. and unranked Providence team in front of a packed Rupp arena sea of blue how we could have thought Briscoe would rather have been on the floor at MSG vs 10th ranked Gonzaga and 5500 fans.

I take it you don't travel much. Comparing Lexington to NYC is like comparing Paris and Kabul for nightlife options. I doubt That little turd Briscoe decided to sign with Kentucky because every Herb in the county takes their female cousin that they are dating to a Cats game.
As for the 5500 fans that attended on Black Friday they should be commended after being deflated yet again by a staff that had no vision to plan for this season with a marquee signing and instead lost its two best recruits to questionable academic issues. Add to that no buzz for the fans for reloading with talent next year.....which is all Kentucky does....and you get the picture. I feel for the St. John's students that have to trek 15 miles into NYC while Lavin limos home a few blocks south with the very hot Mary.

Hardly. I have had clients just outside of Lexington, and also just outside of Louisville. I've been to tiny towns most people have never heard of, and nearly every major city. You think Queens is NYC? You think being on campus in Jamaica is the same as being on Broadway? You think its that easy for a kid with no money and no car to enjoy NYC in his "free time" when you practice 5 days a week October to March, and play 30+ games in between. Our problem, even on Redmen.com, is that for most of our fans, the next major life event will be their own funeral, and who cannot get the mediocrity of our glory days out of our heads. In reality the reason we have any appreciable fan base at all is because of this decrepit crowd who was sold on SJU basketball for life when the postseason was a given. Remove all of us who lived those days, and our fan base is in the hundreds, if not less. Sad

You pretty much have confirmed what I have always suspected about guys like you that resent being a redmen fan. You never got into Fordham, had to become a travelling salesman selling condoms in little towns outside of metropolises like Lexington, you bitch about the school and it failure to not be your imaginary Fordham and even debase the "glory" days with final fours and sweet 16's as mediocre. Self loathing old bastards like yourself are part of that decrepit crowd that pretty much have no insight into the state of the program, let alone the school you were lucky to have attended. I am harsh on the staff for doing a poor job but I don't spit on the heads of my fellow fans sitting in a lower section. You owe the fans here and the students an apology.

Funny SJU is 12 miles from NYC, and access via public transportation takes a bus and a subway - an hour at least. I do think that if the school offered housing in Manhattan for athletes and some courses available there, then NYC would be a big attraction for recruits. I don't think there is any question that our fan base is mostly comprised of people who were around when this program routinely had a post season, and now conveniently forget how in Lou Carnesecca's 24 seasons, only 5 times did we advance past the second round of the NCAA tourney. One of Doc Butler's laments was that we drew only 5500 to MSG for a top ten team. My point was to contrast that UK was able to pack the house for Providence, and as such why would Briscoe want to play games at a mostly vacant MSG compared to a packed Rupp.

On my choice, of schools, you are right about one thing - Fordham wasn't an option, as presumptuous as you are. I think most of us around from the glory days should be more than willing to open our check books to thank St. John's for a dirt cheap tuition that have served many of us well. However, being a graduate of a Catholic University, I sold the rhythm method instead of condoms.

Man oh man, what keeps you coming back for more things negative to point out about the school you seemingly love to hate! Your latest missive now brings up an icon that worked without guaranteed contracts, took the school to post season every year, and find fault with the fact that he only got out of the second round of the NCAA with a bunch of NYC kids on five occasions? That he did what he did without a McDonald all American filled team every year like Kentucky, UNC, Kansas and UCLA does not seem to make a freaking dent in that noodle of yours! Nothing has changed since Louie except the salary paid to poor coaching choices. The top echelon of college basketball stay there by hiring great recruiters. Even Kentucky knew when to cut bait with Joe B. Hall when he could not get the players and Rupp was not selling out. UNC quickly fired Matt the stockbroker when they found out he was insane on a Bobby Gonzalez level. The difference between having 7000 fans in the stands at MSG and 12000 (a great number for NYC) is a team with talent, promise and player buzz like we had with the Sealy's, Mullin, Artest eras. Lavin may have delivered some nationally ranked out of staters but they have all had flaws that have not won the hearts and minds of your NYC non alums. Maurice Harkless was the only NYC player of that level yet he stayed only one year and had ZERO personality to win the loyalty of the average New Yorker the way Malik Sealy George Johnson or Ron Artest had.
Finally, stop the moronic comparisons with small town colleges like Kansas and Kentucky where the life blood of the local economy depends on the success of the basketball program. I was stationed in three different small southern towns while in the military. The local high schools regularly sold out their 10000 seat stadiums every Friday night. Villanova had FSB aspirations while barely half filling their 12000 seat stadium. A fair comparison? NO! Same reason we should not crap on St. John's when discussing fan support vis-a-vis Lexington or Knoxville or wherever.

This is tiresome, and I don't even have the time to read your response. Kentucky wins and packs the place. We don't and don't. What's so hard to figure out? Even Creighton packed their place last season with a complete buzz in a relatively small city - where would you rather play if you paid attention to our MSG attendance? For the record, when were the last GREAT sporting events at MSG? A Stanley cup in 1994, before these kids were born? Frazier Ali before most of their parents were born? MSG may be considered a mecca, but nowadays for Billy Joel, not for championship sports.

 

[panther2]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

I'm naive? Then please enlighten me. Are you saying that Myles Stewart is on academic scholarship? By the way, SJU was the only D1 school interested in him.

Myles Stewart has made great use of July. The 6-foot-3 shooting guard from Los Angeles (Calif.) Westchester has been strong for Cal Supreme, and he played well on Friday. Stewart hits shots, he does just enough off the dribble to keep defenders honest, and he's a good defender. A three-star prospect, Stewart said on Friday that he's yet to receive his first offer, but that will soon change. Among those who have shown interest are Pepperdine, USC, Loyola Marymount, Cal State Northridge and Cal State Bakersfield.

*He had a knee injury that halted his development. Its a small sample size but its pretty clear he's better than a walkon. Hope he stays and intrigued to see him develop over 4 years.

From NY Post:
" Division I schools liked him, but offers never came."

My original point is that if he's better than a walkon, why is he forking over $40k a year, while Amar gets his way paid? Doesn't make sense. Then again, I should probably stop trying to apply logic to these situations.

Maybe, just maybe, he liked St Johns and wanted to go to school. Maybe, just maybe he was promised a scholarship next year when we have a lot available. Maybe, just maybe he qualified for some financial ail. Many St Johns students do. Maybe, just maybe he wanted the experience of going to school in New York. Maybe, just maybe his parents can afford the tuition. I don't know the answers to any of the above and neither do you. Let's just move on, LOL !!!!!

 

[beast of the east]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

Agreed about the coach and ability to recruit. You must agree though, that Norm is a better recruiter selling Bill Self and Kansas, than SJU and Norm Roberts. Calipari can flat out sell, but SJU could win 4 championships in a row and never fork over $8 million a year to a coach. Lavin has done better than anyone in quite a while in terms of recruiting, but he did start 2011-2012 with an absolutely bankrupt roster. Still I'd agree that he's failed to bring in enough talent to offset any deficiencies he is as a strategist.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

I wonder why people on this board still insist that they know more about the game of basketball than our coaching staff.....

I wonder why people here consider themselves the next coming of John Wooden......

I sure hope that attempting to put me down makes you feel better about yourself, Peanut Boy. I wonder why there are people like you, who have no other way to express their jealousy and insecurities. Why don't you start by stating an idea of your own...or do you have to be a professional coach to know something about this game.?

You want me to start by stating an idea of my own? I won't, and there is a reason for it. There isn't an idea that I could come up with that our coaching staff hasn't already thought of.

While your ideas and suggestions may make sense, they are not new ideas. You made it sound like you were the first person ever to come up with these ideas. I'm really sorry, but you weren't.

With all of the years and experience that our coaching staff has, I promise you that whatever thought you may have, they have already thought of. Or whatever criticism you have about one of the players, they have already noticed it.

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

THIS. IS. SUCH. BALONEY.

doc and peanut, you are both ridiculously misguided. There are some very knowledgeable basketball-people on this board and in the stands at SJU games. Former NBA officials, HS coaches, D1 players, and yes..college coaches and former coaches. But their credentials are besides the point; you don't need to be anything more than a ballplayer or former coach at any level above middle school to see some of the errors that are made by this staff. A staff that is far from above reproach.
Lets be clear; Lavin was out of coaching for nearly a decade, and when he came back dunlap ran practices. Hines is a trainer. He was never a basketball coach until he got this job, and the same for Darrick martin, he was a front office guy after he retired.
Whitesell comes from good stock apparently, but you have to wonder how much of a leash he is given, considering Lavin told Dunlap he didn't want him back, presumably because he had issues giving up too much control.

The second, and equally important point, is that you don't need to know every bit of minutia about a position's job tasks to make a decision about personnel. You vote for president don't you? Have you ever managed a war or written a federal budget?
You choose characteristics and policy tests that guide your decisision. It's no different here. Fans don't need to be experts to know the program needs a change of leadership.[/quote]

For one, I am a huge supporter of having to pass a test in order to be able to vote. The idea that everyone has the right to vote is absolutely ridiculous, and is a large reason why our country is the way it is today.....But I'm not getting into politics on here.

Secondly, who exactly are the D1 head coaches on this board? I find it hard to believe that any college coach worth a damn would spend his time on a public forum discussing the success/failures of another program.

I will agree with you on one point, though. Many of the posters on here are very knowledgeable of the game, and do know what they are talking about sometimes. However, how many of the posters are deeply involved with the program (other than being obsessive fans)? How many are at every practice, and every film session? I'm guessing none. Believe it or not, a lot of decisions are made based on what coaches see in practice. None of us here see the 'behind the scenes' of this program....

And as the saying goes, 'The easiest place to coach from is the stands....'

 

[monte]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

Agreed about the coach and ability to recruit. You must agree though, that Norm is a better recruiter selling Bill Self and Kansas, than SJU and Norm Roberts. Calipari can flat out sell, but SJU could win 4 championships in a row and never fork over $8 million a year to a coach. Lavin has done better than anyone in quite a while in terms of recruiting, but he did start 2011-2012 with an absolutely bankrupt roster. Still I'd agree that he's failed to bring in enough talent to offset any deficiencies he is as a strategist.

If you look at his whole body of work, I honestly do not think he's done such a stellar recruiting job. Yes he made a big splash initially, and he deserved a ton of credit for that, but that class never quite panned out. At that same time he turned away Ron Roberts who would have been a solid 4 year player for us. I'm not quite sure what happened with Polee and whether he was forced out, but there's another kid who would have been a serviceable 4 year player for us. He has failed to recruit a balanced roster in terms of players who compliment each other. He has not effectively spread out scholarships. He has failed to identify and recruit solid roll players and has grossly overestimated the abilities of kids like Hooper, Bourgault and now apparently Amar. He has not exactly ingratiated himself with the local high school and AAU coaches thus eliminating what has historically been our most effective pipeline. While its not my dime, he has traveled the country and the globe to find walk-ons and end of the bench type players. He has recruited kids with questionable academics without doing his due diligence(or ignoring the results) and without any kind of back-up plan. Other than his immediate predecessor, I would argue that he's actually done a worse recruiting job than any of our other coaches.

 

[1and1sju]

I will agree with you on one point, though. Many of the posters on here are very knowledgeable of the game, and do know what they are talking about sometimes. However, how many of the posters are deeply involved with the program (other than being obsessive fans)? How many are at every practice, and every film session? I'm guessing none. Believe it or not, a lot of decisions are made based on what coaches see in practice. None of us here see the 'behind the scenes' of this program....

And as the saying goes, 'The easiest place to coach from is the stands....'

That's very true. It's always easier to criticize after the fact.
But in many cases the fans on here have preemptively called out what they foresaw as a bad idea.

Sure, there are things the coaches may see in practice from certain guys, or minor injuries that they know about and we don't.... but there are also simply questionable basketball strategies that have been employed. I think those in particular are most vulnerable to critique.
Putting Hooper in to handle the ball in overtime?
Starting Felix for 1 game, and ruining his red-shirt in the process?
Taking on too much risk in the recruiting class for 2014, and similarly, putting too much emphasis on the 2015 class.

 

[MainMan]

I wonder why this turrible thread has lasted so long.

Let's instead talk about Shelly Jones and Wilson Glass

 

[Amaseinyourface]

You can sit there and wonder why we do this or why we don't do that......but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has their reasons for why we do this or don't do that, and their reasoning is a lot more justified than any poster's opinion on this site.

Hey Peanut Boy. I agree with you to the extent that you find Doc Butler gaseous and tiresome. But we'll have to part company when you say that the coaching staff is infallible and that no poster on this website can have any insight into life or basketball that has not occurred to Steve Lavin and his brain trust. The pope is infallible: you can tell by the hat. Steve Lavin is fallible: you can tell by looking at his record. Do you mean to say that Steve Lavin was for example wise to start a walk-on on national television and that his "reasoning" for doing so - a voodoo premonition - was justified? That is impossible to question his decision to start Felix Balamou last year for one game to teach a lesson to Rysheed Jordan? That no one can wonder why he had Max Hooper handle the ball under the basket in overtime last year versus Providence? That if Steve Lavin says it takes him two months to figure out who his best 5 players are everyone should shrug and accept that nonsense as if it were inscribed on a stone tablet and carried down the mountain by Moses? No. Lavin does not speak ex cathedra: in fact he's barely coherent most of the time. And he certainly should not be immune from criticism, and especially not by dint of his alleged authority.

Ndiaye is on scholarship, although I still have no idea why

No doubt the same rationale is responsible for Myles Stewart, the walk-on, playing more minutes than Amar.

In fact, if I was Myles Stewarts' parents, I'd be wondering why I'm writing a check for $40K + a year to St John's while some Bosnian boy who rides the pines gets a free ride.

I wouldnt be so naive to think that a kid, who is fully capable of getting a full ride to play college basketball, would go to school completely across the country and pull full tuition.

I'm naive? Then please enlighten me. Are you saying that Myles Stewart is on academic scholarship? By the way, SJU was the only D1 school interested in him.

Myles Stewart has made great use of July. The 6-foot-3 shooting guard from Los Angeles (Calif.) Westchester has been strong for Cal Supreme, and he played well on Friday. Stewart hits shots, he does just enough off the dribble to keep defenders honest, and he's a good defender. A three-star prospect, Stewart said on Friday that he's yet to receive his first offer, but that will soon change. Among those who have shown interest are Pepperdine, USC, Loyola Marymount, Cal State Northridge and Cal State Bakersfield.

*He had a knee injury that halted his development. Its a small sample size but its pretty clear he's better than a walkon. Hope he stays and intrigued to see him develop over 4 years.

From NY Post:
" Division I schools liked him, but offers never came."

My original point is that if he's better than a walkon, why is he forking over $40k a year, while Amar gets his way paid? Doesn't make sense. Then again, I should probably stop trying to apply logic to these situations.

My point is that I am sure these "preferred walk-ons" who could play basketball for free (remember division 2 gives full rides) are not playing full room and board.

 

[beast of the east]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

Agreed about the coach and ability to recruit. You must agree though, that Norm is a better recruiter selling Bill Self and Kansas, than SJU and Norm Roberts. Calipari can flat out sell, but SJU could win 4 championships in a row and never fork over $8 million a year to a coach. Lavin has done better than anyone in quite a while in terms of recruiting, but he did start 2011-2012 with an absolutely bankrupt roster. Still I'd agree that he's failed to bring in enough talent to offset any deficiencies he is as a strategist.

If you look at his whole body of work, I honestly do not think he's done such a stellar recruiting job. Yes he made a big splash initially, and he deserved a ton of credit for that, but that class never quite panned out. At that same time he turned away Ron Roberts who would have been a solid 4 year player for us. I'm not quite sure what happened with Polee and whether he was forced out, but there's another kid who would have been a serviceable 4 year player for us. He has failed to recruit a balanced roster in terms of players who compliment each other. He has not effectively spread out scholarships. He has failed to identify and recruit solid roll players and has grossly overestimated the abilities of kids like Hooper, Bourgault and now apparently Amar. He has not exactly ingratiated himself with the local high school and AAU coaches thus eliminating what has historically been our most effective pipeline. While its not my dime, he has traveled the country and the globe to find walk-ons and end of the bench type players. He has recruited kids with questionable academics without doing his due diligence(or ignoring the results) and without any kind of back-up plan. Other than his immediate predecessor, I would argue that he's actually done a worse recruiting job than any of our other coaches.

My point is, not to be overlooked is that instead of beginning his second year with 3-4 carryover players meriting playing time, Roberts left such an unbalanced roster that Lavin began year two with absolutely zero. To some extent, he is still crawling out of that hole now, and admittedly not filling that hole as quickly or with as much quality as needed to be a tourney team year in, year out.

As of this moment, we have at least three guys with NBA aspirations - Obekpa, Jordan, and to a lesser extent, Harrison. Sampson is in the NBA, even if you think you can't call the 76ers that, Harkless is in the NBA, and Sanchez is in the Dleague. Not a horrible resume, but again, he has to do better in that regard, and he knows that.

For those comparing our recruiting prowess to the Carnesecca days, I would say that with the rise of mid-majors and dozens of cable outlets, good players have many more choices to get noticed. 30 years ago if someone travelled anything but a top 20 program, you may not get a chance to ever see him play on TV unless his team was good enough to play on the CBS game of the week. Now on any given night there are multiple TV choices. I think this dilutes the type of talent SJU traditionally went after successfully, and makes recruiting significantly more difficult.

 

[logen]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

Agreed about the coach and ability to recruit. You must agree though, that Norm is a better recruiter selling Bill Self and Kansas, than SJU and Norm Roberts. Calipari can flat out sell, but SJU could win 4 championships in a row and never fork over $8 million a year to a coach. Lavin has done better than anyone in quite a while in terms of recruiting, but he did start 2011-2012 with an absolutely bankrupt roster. Still I'd agree that he's failed to bring in enough talent to offset any deficiencies he is as a strategist.

If you look at his whole body of work, I honestly do not think he's done such a stellar recruiting job. Yes he made a big splash initially, and he deserved a ton of credit for that, but that class never quite panned out. At that same time he turned away Ron Roberts who would have been a solid 4 year player for us. I'm not quite sure what happened with Polee and whether he was forced out, but there's another kid who would have been a serviceable 4 year player for us. He has failed to recruit a balanced roster in terms of players who compliment each other. He has not effectively spread out scholarships. He has failed to identify and recruit solid roll players and has grossly overestimated the abilities of kids like Hooper, Bourgault and now apparently Amar. He has not exactly ingratiated himself with the local high school and AAU coaches thus eliminating what has historically been our most effective pipeline. While its not my dime, he has traveled the country and the globe to find walk-ons and end of the bench type players. He has recruited kids with questionable academics without doing his due diligence(or ignoring the results) and without any kind of back-up plan. Other than his immediate predecessor, I would argue that he's actually done a worse recruiting job than any of our other coaches.

My point is, not to be overlooked is that instead of beginning his second year with 3-4 carryover players meriting playing time, Roberts left such an unbalanced roster that Lavin began year two with absolutely zero. To some extent, he is still crawling out of that hole now, and admittedly not filling that hole as quickly or with as much quality as needed to be a tourney team year in, year out.

Disagree wholeheartedly that Lavin is still affected by Roberts inbalance. He has been here 5 years, more than enough time to have this program in order. One could argue with me but I don't think he has recruited any better than Roberts did. On paper, yes, in reality, no.Harrison is obviously a better player than anyone Roberts recruited and personally I discount Harkless, not knocking him at all but his presence really did nothing to help the program. Hardy's senior year dwarfs anything Jordan has done and the rest of the players are basically a wash. Sampson made the pros and good for him but he was not an appreciably better college player than Brownlee, if he was at all. Again, Brownlee's senior year was certainly better than anything Sampson did. I do think it is only fair toI mention that Lavin is certainly recruiting in a more difficult situation given the demise of the BE but his recruiting over 5 years has been fair at best.

 

[beast of the east]

Unfortunately the carrot of NYC / MSG is over-rated and does not have the allure many on here like to think it has.. Otherwise why would the top HS kids chose places like Spokane, Lawrence, or heaven forbid, Storrs or Syracuse? To paraphrase Popeye, "We are what we are"...

The RIGHT coach maximizes the advantages of their locations, be it sleepy Storrs or sunny Gainesville. The best example and the best in the game is John Calipari. Whether it was Amherst or Memphis he got the players. Maybe players with an * but he got the players. He never let the lack of his conferences power ranking affect his recruiting success. His last 4 years at Memphis he went for 33 33, 38 and 33 wins. He earns over 8 million at UK with bonuses because he can get 10 high school all Americans. I think a guy earning 2 million should be good for at least 2 players in the bottom half of the top 100 every year. The results the last two years speak for themselves. He gets to the NCAA and is one and and does not reach the recruiting goals he is a gonner.

Agreed about the coach and ability to recruit. You must agree though, that Norm is a better recruiter selling Bill Self and Kansas, than SJU and Norm Roberts. Calipari can flat out sell, but SJU could win 4 championships in a row and never fork over $8 million a year to a coach. Lavin has done better than anyone in quite a while in terms of recruiting, but he did start 2011-2012 with an absolutely bankrupt roster. Still I'd agree that he's failed to bring in enough talent to offset any deficiencies he is as a strategist.

If you look at his whole body of work, I honestly do not think he's done such a stellar recruiting job. Yes he made a big splash initially, and he deserved a ton of credit for that, but that class never quite panned out. At that same time he turned away Ron Roberts who would have been a solid 4 year player for us. I'm not quite sure what happened with Polee and whether he was forced out, but there's another kid who would have been a serviceable 4 year player for us. He has failed to recruit a balanced roster in terms of players who compliment each other. He has not effectively spread out scholarships. He has failed to identify and recruit solid roll players and has grossly overestimated the abilities of kids like Hooper, Bourgault and now apparently Amar. He has not exactly ingratiated himself with the local high school and AAU coaches thus eliminating what has historically been our most effective pipeline. While its not my dime, he has traveled the country and the globe to find walk-ons and end of the bench type players. He has recruited kids with questionable academics without doing his due diligence(or ignoring the results) and without any kind of back-up plan. Other than his immediate predecessor, I would argue that he's actually done a worse recruiting job than any of our other coaches.

My point is, not to be overlooked is that instead of beginning his second year with 3-4 carryover players meriting playing time, Roberts left such an unbalanced roster that Lavin began year two with absolutely zero. To some extent, he is still crawling out of that hole now, and admittedly not filling that hole as quickly or with as much quality as needed to be a tourney team year in, year out.

Disagree wholeheartedly that Lavin is still affected by Roberts inbalance. He has been here 5 years, more than enough time to have this program in order. One could argue with me but I don't think he has recruited any better than Roberts did. On paper, yes, in reality, no.Harrison is obviously a better player than anyone Roberts recruited and personally I discount Harkless, not knocking him at all but his presence really did nothing to help the program. Hardy's senior year dwarfs anything Jordan has done and the rest of the players are basically a wash. Sampson made the pros and good for him but he was not an appreciably better college player than Brownlee, if he was at all. Again, Brownlee's senior year was certainly better than anything Sampson did. I do think it is only fair toI mention that Lavin is certainly recruiting in a more difficult situation given the demise of the BE but his recruiting over 5 years has been fair at best.

Actually, Hardy didn't have a great senior year. He had a great 10 game or so run. When he returned to earth, our post season chances were done. We were staggering to the gate long before Kennedy went down with a knee injury in the BET.

How could possibly discount an NBA one-and-done recruit as nothing to credit Lavin for? That makes no sense. Harrison may be better than anything Roberts recruited, but his NBA hopes are likely below that of Sampson and even Sanchez, and certainly below Obekpa and Jordan. So, right there you have 6 players that are better than anything Roberts recruited.