I Wonder Why?

[OLV72]

My Wonder.......

As I read the Gonzaga and Niagra threads, I wonder why so many posters are pinning our struggles on the fans and the refs.

Really???

Our record would be 0-6 if it reflected the effort the fans make to show up at games. You don't need to wonder about it. Check out the attendance figures and compare it to any other major program.

Name me a college basketball program with a similar record to ours over the last fifteen years, that enjoys good fan support.

I think if we sold out school to North Korea, our stands would be packed with adoring fans.

Here's a list of average attendance for 2014 ( a year in which STJ won 20 games by the way).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf

Plenty of equal or worse programs above STJ at 66.

Now if fan support was measured in booster dollars it would be even worse.

Who above us on that list has been equal or worse on the court? UTEP? South Carolina? That's about it.

Actually, over the last 15 years our record is more similar to teams ranked in the 80s... Seton Hall, Penn State, Georgia etc.
I don't see how we can complain about attendance until the program puts a good team on the court for 2 consecutive seasons.

Desco, there are crappy programs that double us in average attendance. Look up the NCAA stats and check out Nebraska. We averaged over 10k before the 2003 disaster. Norm's teams never pulled us over the 6k range. Lavin brought it up to well over 8k a few years ago. In a city that prides itself on its interest in hoops it should not take 2 seasons to pull in fans. You guys that are staying away because of the let down at the end of last season are missing out on seeing this team play hard, tough and good ball.

I'm talking about the average student or basketball fan in nyc.
I have missed one game this season, I'm not staying away from anything.
I obviously think Lavin is a dope, but that won't stop me from going to games. And you're right, it doesn't reflect well that we can't draw as well as Nebraska on a regular basis. But that's how NY is. Look at the Mets attendance, or take a look at how many people show up for jets and Giants games the rest to this season...and those tickets are already paid for in many cases.

Sju has to win, just a little more consistently before it can complain about fan support.

I don't hear anyone but a few posters complaining. Hoops writers did pick up on it. I would not blame the players or coaches for questioning it. I agree with you on the NY part of it. NY sports fans tend to stay home these days and let fans from out of town take their seats. It has been that way for a long time. It was cool at the Pitt game four years ago. That is the atmosphere we all want to see again.

I blame it on 55 inch TVs. You can see the game better than ever and not have to fight traffic.

Beast, I heard the same point when TV's had antennas. It is still a valid one.

So few Johnny fans (about 3k by my estimate) value the unique opportunity college sports brings to alumni and fans of a program. It is pretty cool to meet and get to know other fans and to celebrate the big victories with them. I've been fortunate to have seen great thoroughbreds like Ruffian and Forego walk on to the track and race..

i gotta go with you and Ralph to Belmont sometime next year

Sounds like a section 114 outing. Just don't bet with Ralph if you want to keep some of your money.

If Ralph is organizing an outing to Belmont, I'll tell my brother-in-law Joe B. I have a feeling one of you guys introduced him to his love of the ponies.

Last time I talked to Joe was about a year ago at Belmont. I spent many afternoons after school splitting $2 bets with him. Tell him to make it to our annual class of 77 reunion. It's right before the Belmont meet.

 

[austour]

My Wonder.......

As I read the Gonzaga and Niagra threads, I wonder why so many posters are pinning our struggles on the fans and the refs.

Really???

Our record would be 0-6 if it reflected the effort the fans make to show up at games. You don't need to wonder about it. Check out the attendance figures and compare it to any other major program.

Name me a college basketball program with a similar record to ours over the last fifteen years, that enjoys good fan support.

I think if we sold out school to North Korea, our stands would be packed with adoring fans.

Here's a list of average attendance for 2014 ( a year in which STJ won 20 games by the way).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf

Plenty of equal or worse programs above STJ at 66.

Now if fan support was measured in booster dollars it would be even worse.

Your attached list proves that, with a few exceptions like Omaha and Milwaukee, your largest attendance will come in small college towns where the home team is the only game in town. In cities like New York, Miami, Los Angeles and Chicago you better have a nationally ranked team to sell out your arena.
Austour you are west coast guy. What has the attendance been like at the 14000 seat Pauley Pavilion after spending $135 million? Did they have more than 5400 fans for Azuza? The Bruins are the most storied basketball program in history yet on the list you attached they were near the bottom of the top 60, just a few spots above SJU. Miami has been very successful the past few years. Check out their attendance.
NYC is the toughest market in America. Given our crap record the fans should be applauded. Had Lavin delivered the players and had not crapped out last year attendance would have easily topped storied UCLA.

One other point about attendance by the way that just popped in my mind. If you took out opposing fans SJ would likely drop quite a few more spaces. NY, being the center of the universe, attracts not just decent traveling fans but especially local alums from every opponent they play. Probably more UConn and Syracuse alums in NYC than in Storrs and Syracuse for example. Duke as well. This is not the case in Most of the home cities for major teams from 2ndary tertiary and podunk cities that many of the listed teams play in.

 

[Class of 72]

My Wonder.......

As I read the Gonzaga and Niagra threads, I wonder why so many posters are pinning our struggles on the fans and the refs.

Really???

Our record would be 0-6 if it reflected the effort the fans make to show up at games. You don't need to wonder about it. Check out the attendance figures and compare it to any other major program.

Name me a college basketball program with a similar record to ours over the last fifteen years, that enjoys good fan support.

I think if we sold out school to North Korea, our stands would be packed with adoring fans.

Here's a list of average attendance for 2014 ( a year in which STJ won 20 games by the way).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf

Plenty of equal or worse programs above STJ at 66.

Now if fan support was measured in booster dollars it would be even worse.

Your attached list proves that, with a few exceptions like Omaha and Milwaukee, your largest attendance will come in small college towns where the home team is the only game in town. In cities like New York, Miami, Los Angeles and Chicago you better have a nationally ranked team to sell out your arena.
Austour you are west coast guy. What has the attendance been like at the 14000 seat Pauley Pavilion after spending $135 million? Did they have more than 5400 fans for Azuza? The Bruins are the most storied basketball program in history yet on the list you attached they were near the bottom of the top 60, just a few spots above SJU. Miami has been very successful the past few years. Check out their attendance.
NYC is the toughest market in America. Given our crap record the fans should be applauded. Had Lavin delivered the players and had not crapped out last year attendance would have easily topped storied UCLA.

One other point about attendance by the way that just popped in my mind. If you took out opposing fans SJ would likely drop quite a few more spaces. NY, being the center of the universe, attracts not just decent traveling fans but especially local alums from every opponent they play. Probably more UConn and Syracuse alums in NYC than in Storrs and Syracuse for example. Duke as well. This is not the case in Most of the home cities for major teams from 2ndary tertiary and podunk cities that many of the listed teams play in.

Thanks, I guess that point ties in nicely with my UCLA example......NOT!!!

 

[monte]

This city would jump on a successful St. John's team. IMO a top 25 St. John's team can draw the following to the Garden against another good-very good team:
7,500 St. John's fans
2,500 Impartial college basketball fans most of whom will likely root for St. John's
2,500-5,000 fans of opposing team, depending on team


Obviously these are averages and a marquis game can draw more. But I firmly believe that if we put a good product on the court, that we can rock the garden once again.

 

[TobinGrad]

This city would jump on a successful St. John's team. IMO a top 25 St. John's team can draw the following to the Garden against another good-very good team:
7,500 St. John's fans
2,500 Impartial college basketball fans most of whom will likely root for St. John's
2,500-5,000 fans of opposing team, depending on team


Obviously these are averages and a marquis game can draw more. But I firmly believe that if we put a good product on the court, that we can rock the garden once again.

In fact this has already been proven. 5 years ago when STJ was ranked and getting lots of national hype, the fans came out. Even last year during the winning streak the MSG game vs Georgetown was packed and energetic. And the 80's when the university was merely a "commuter" school but the program was consistently good, the games were packed.

The posters here babbling about attendance, always looking for any and every angle to deflect blame from Lavin should really stop wasting your breaths. Fans are not going to come out consistently for a long-time losing program no matter how much you try and shame them. There is only one thing that will increase attendance. And that is not something Lavin will ever deliver with consistency.

 

[GardenCity62]

At some point we all hope SJU can fill MSG but until that day why not go back to what MSG did for seventy years and schedule double headers with multi local colleges The atmosphere with students attending is always an improvement.
I realize NYC interest in college basketball is down but I'd prefer the holiday festival with four locals than SJU vs Marq by itself. Bring a pillow to that game.
It seems MSG went to stand alone SJU games just when fan interest in S jU went down as well as interest in Fordham , Manhattan etc.
SJU vs Duke or SYR ok but even Vill and Geo games would benefit from a first game.