Fire Lavin!

If Obekpa leaves, Lavin needs to go with him. It's over, at first, it was thought Sampson was just chasing a dream to go to the nba, and hooper was leaving cause his best friend did. But it's becoming clear why these guys are leaving. Lavin has not just been giving fans the stupid "progress" BS about us slowly getting closer to reaching our goals, he's been talking like this to the players too.

Let me put it this way. How would you feel if you are a player for Steve Lavin, and he is in the locker room getting you all pumped up, telling you that you will keep playing better as a team and make the tournament? Excited right? But then, you go out on the court, and teams are running sets on offense you don't know how to defend. Teams are throwing defenses at you that you've never faced in practice. Teams are greatly in order, move the ball effectively, and run a play almost every time down the court. How would it feel? Because if I'm a player, I feel like this guy that had me all pumped up, left me unprepared and not ready to compete. A cheerleader can only be fun for so long. Eventually, their screams and chants get old, worn out, and annoying. A cheerleader can do all the chanting they want for the team, but in the end, have no impact on the game.

Steve Lavin is nothing more than a hype man. He brought these guys in with a big fat promise that they would be one of the best teams in the big east. And now the players are realizing that their talent alone can't get them far, they need some rule of game coach and strategist to help them reach their desired postseason achievements. And when our players signed to SJU, they probably thought Lavin could be that guy because of his sweet sixteens at UCLA. But when Lav was at UCLA, he was able to get such good talent, those teams were able to make sweet 16s even despite his coaching skills. But this is St. John's, a program that has struggled for a long time. The talent isn't as good, and for us to be a sweet 16 team, it would require Lavin to do something he has never had to do, and that's coach.

My comparison? Steve Lavin and John Calipari are a lot alike. Calipari is not that great of a coach. But the fact that he's at Kentucky, he got such good talent, and the talent learned how to play together at the right time, so he's competing for a spot in the national championship Saturday night. But at St. John's, there isn't as great talent, so the players we have need to be coached correctly. It's a shame, and I've liked Lavin since he came, but it's time. He had a chance to prove that he could really coach, and he failed. He's not at UCLA anymore, and while he brought in very good young players, they just aren't good enough to be great without some type of coaching implemented.
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I'm not saying that Lavin is a great coach but I don't get the comparison with Calipari. How do you explain the success he had at UMASS and Memphis. I don't think that players chose those programs because of the name on the front of those jerseys. Lavin signed his first full class very quickly. He got a top player in Polee to come before he coached a game, Polee didn't leave because of coach, he left because he saw a bunch of hyped up high school players like Moe, Jakarr, Dom, and Norvell and didn't see himself getting much more playing time. Can't be mad at him for that. Jakarr had no intentions of staying here more than two years since the day he stepped on campus. Max is Max, who really cares why he transferred. A lot of fans are blowing this(the transfers) out of proportion. Chris hasn't transferred and neither has Phil, so let's leave it be. Transferring is unfortunately a very, very common and accepted problem in college basketball today and we are not the only team who has had players leaving their program almost yearly.
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I don't buy it. The culmination of Karr saying in an interview early march that he wouldn't leave if he wasn't projected to get drafted, and obekpa refusing to play in a BET game, it smells like something isn't right, so to tell posters that they are blowing these problems out of proportion is misguided IMO, because if you look at various things that have happened over the last two weeks, it's impossible to just say "well transfers are a part of CBB" something more is up here, and we all know it.
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Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
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Agree completely Beast, it's not fair to lay the blame for Sampson's departure at Lavin's feet. Jakarr was going to follow his dream, that's no fault of coach.
However, he should have had a plan in place to replace Sampson, because this was somewhat foreseeable. And maybe he does, but that remains to be seen.
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All of a sudden we went from being the deepest team in conference, to one of the shallowest. I would be pretty sure that Lavin wasn't blind sided by this. HE has had such a close relationship with some players, that I don't think Sampson would keep this to himself. The dearth of incoming talent for next season now becomes magnified, and if Lavin has something up his sleeve, he'd better come up with it very soon.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.[/quote]

I'm going to stop busting your chops after this but I could not resist. I am a lousy writer, I even got an incomplete in Professor Turano's English and the Law class. I have never been published in any peer review journals and it bothers me to no end. My lack of writing skills is one of the reasons that I only write in forums. However, I was the school spelling bee champion in 6th grade and it is a real pet peeve of mine when someone spells the word "no" wrong and writes "know" instead. Normally, I wouldn't think it appropriate to comment on spelling, grammar, etc. in a forum but if you need any assistance editing your peer review publications solely for spelling errors I am here for you as a fellow SJU fan. ;)

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

I'm going to stop busting your chops after this but I could not resist. I am a lousy writer, I even got an incomplete in Professor Turano's English and the Law class. I have never been published in any peer review journals and it bothers me to no end. My lack of writing skills is one of the reasons that I only write in forums. However, I was the school spelling bee champion in 6th grade and it is a real pet peeve of mine when someone spells the word "no" wrong and writes "know" instead. Normally, I wouldn't think it appropriate to comment on spelling, grammar, etc. in a forum but if you need any assistance editing your peer review publications solely for spelling errors I am here for you as a fellow SJU fan. ;)

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.[/quote] Your last paragraph is well said.
 
after coaching "1 seeds"in the NIT who lost to Robert Morris in the opening round, the comparrisons of Lavin and Calipari need to end.
They are on different planets as coaches.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
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Your last paragraph is well said.[/quote]

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.[/quote]

Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
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Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.[/quote]

Drama is caused by a lack of chemistry, which in turn is a direct consequence of people not knowing what their roles are. Imagine going into work and not knowing what your job is on any given day. Chaos would ensue. One example: Is Phil Greene a point guard? If not, why is he playing that role? And if I’m Jamal Branch, am I happy about that? Is Nyadiye a walk-on or a starter who deserves 7 mins in a crucial conference game? At one point, Lavin went with 9 starting lineups in 17 games. The definition of roles has to come from the top and it has to be crystal clear—and in this case, it is completely lacking. It's one step removed from Lord of the Flies.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.[/quote] Were not talking about 1 thing . We are talking about numerous things. CO,Sampson Hooper leaving and maybe more, when we have zero recruits lined up . What you said maybe true some of the players may be unmanageable, but Lavin knew this and had to be proactive. Look at his first recruiting class . Long athletic wings w no shooters except DLO and no true PG. Half the class were academic risks. Lavin could have recruited another less risky player,perhaps a 3 star pg. Poor roster management ,poor player development,poor Xs and os, underachievement and more.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
Click to expand...

Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.
Click to expand...


Drama is caused by a lack of chemistry, which in turn is a direct consequence of people not knowing what their roles are. Imagine going into work and not knowing what your job is on any given day. Chaos would ensue. One example: Is Phil Greene a point guard? If not, why is he playing that role? And if I’m Jamal Branch, am I happy about that? Is Nyadiye a walk-on or a starter who deserves 7 mins in a crucial conference game? At one point, Lavin went with 9 starting lineups in 17 games. The definition of roles has to come from the top and it has to be crystal clear—and in this case, it is completely lacking. It's one step removed from Lord of the Flies.[/quote]]

I think part of the problem is that some of these guys think they'd made it already. I have a feeling that if a 50 year old Keady was coach, we'd have the same problem, only that he would have thrown half of them off the team and killed the other half. I don't know though - Lavin seems to be a pretty even mix of compassion and discipline.

Now, putting Hooper in with 20 seconds to go vs. Providence, or burning timeouts like matchsticks - that's another story.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
Click to expand...

Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.[/quote]


At what point do we hold the players accountable for their own actions and behaviors? Lavin clearly deserves criticism for some of his on the court decisions, and we all know what they are. But developing a team culture is a two way street. He certainly has a lot of input in that, but so do the players and other coaches on the team. I agree there seems to be a lot of drama with these guys, but clearly they share some responsibility for creating it too.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
Click to expand...

Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
Click to expand...

Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.
Click to expand...


At what point do we hold the players accountable for their own actions and behaviors? Lavin clearly deserves criticism for some of his on the court decisions, and we all know what they are. But developing a team culture is a two way street. He certainly has a lot of input in that, but so do the players and other coaches on the team. I agree there seems to be a lot of drama with these guys, but clearly they share some responsibility for creating it too.[/quote]

Would not argue with that.
 
I haven't read all 90 something posts on this thread so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed already, but can someone tell me what is the "drama" people keep referring to?

Sampson was thinking of the NBA last year, most were convinced then that he would probably enter the draft after his sophomore season. Just because we don't think he is ready doesn't make it drama. It's simply him doing what many here expected him to do.

Obekpa to my knowledge has not stated that he is transferring. Unless & until that happens, give it a rest already.

Unless I missed something, there has been no confirmation that Obekpa refused to re-enter the PC game during the Big East Tournament. All I've seen written is that there may have been an argument or discussion on the bench with the coaching staff. For all we know Obekpa may have been pissed at the refs for the quick whistle and he was expressing it on the bench. Unless we know exactly what was said it's speculation.

Jordan has tweeted he is coming back. So unless there is official news stating something different, I don't see any drama here.

Sanchez, Gift & Marco are graduating. How is that drama?

Hooper is transferring. If you think this "drama" is only limited to St. John's you may want to look at thishttp://zagsblog.com/articles/college-transfer-list/#more-112675

Again, if there is something that I missed that confirms some of the things that so far are nothing but speculation, then I stand corrected, but until then, all of our so called drama is that we have is 3 seniors graduating, one leaving to the NBA a year later than some expected & a player who barely played transferring.
 
and Just to be clear about Hooper, he is graduating this year. Completed his bachelors in 3 years. So, technically he isn't transferring, he is graduating and completing grad school elsewhere. Not many people get their masters in the same institution where they got their bachelors.
 
I haven't read all 90 something posts on this thread so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed already, but can someone tell me what is the "drama" people keep referring to?

Sampson was thinking of the NBA last year, most were convinced then that he would probably enter the draft after his sophomore season. Just because we don't think he is ready doesn't make it drama. It's simply him doing what many here expected him to do.

Obekpa to my knowledge has not stated that he is transferring. Unless & until that happens, give it a rest already.

Unless I missed something, there has been no confirmation that Obekpa refused to re-enter the PC game during the Big East Tournament. All I've seen written is that there may have been an argument or discussion on the bench with the coaching staff. For all we know Obekpa may have been pissed at the refs for the quick whistle and he was expressing it on the bench. Unless we know exactly what was said it's speculation.

Jordan has tweeted he is coming back. So unless there is official news stating something different, I don't see any drama here.

Sanchez, Gift & Marco are graduating. How is that drama?

Hooper is transferring. If you think this "drama" is only limited to St. John's you may want to look at thishttp://zagsblog.com/articles/college-transfer-list/#more-112675

Again, if there is something that I missed that confirms some of the things that so far are nothing but speculation, then I stand corrected, but until then, all of our so called drama is that we have is 3 seniors graduating, one leaving to the NBA a year later than some expected & a player who barely played transferring.
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The drama is we've lost at this point 5 player (Sampson, Hooper, Gift, Sanchez and Marco) and replaced them with nobody! If Obepka leaves, we'll have no front line, and will have what, 7 players under scholarship? That's embarrassing.
 
[q
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
Click to expand...

On the topic of Lavin, I am usually one of the last people to give up on a coach and have supported Lavin throughout. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have faith in him with all of the departures. There has to be something going on behind the scenes. Most would agree he is not a good game day coach. I'm not sure how much more of a chance he should have If he can't even bring in and keep talent once they are here.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is well said.
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Of course there was something going on behind the scenes. How would you have suggested he manage guys no showing up to practice, being late for the team bus, cursing out coaches, etc.? I'm guessing you lay down the law, which is what he did. How do you manage a head case who doesn't want to re-enter a BET game and chooses an in game moment to throw a hissy fit on the bench? How do you stop a kid with virtually no chance of being drafted from declaring for the NBA draft? I'm guessing even there, Sampson knows his chances are slim to none, but also knows that maybe he can score $50-100K overseas, and that's better than a university stipend. Maybe he hasn't done schoolwork and is in danger of being academically ineligible next season. Lots and lots of things going on, and collectively you can blame the coach, but I don't think any one thing can be pinned to Lavin beyond a doubt.
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Agree pinning individual issues on Lavin may be unfair. That said, I personally think the team culture he has helped develop is off kilter. The drama surrounding this group, as I have noted before, appears excessive.[/quote]

I think that's a key point, Paultz. There's no way you can pin individual instances on a coach; even the coaches that run the tighest ships in America deal with player issues and it's outside of their control. But when the instances build from multiple players, across multiple years, concerning multiple different types of issues, then you are talking about a more macro problem and have to at least wonder what kind of program the coach is building/running.

And, for our particular situation, I think it's also fair to wonder if that's completely on Lavin. I'm sure he'd like to run a smoother ship. Perhaps he simply feels he has to take risks in order to get SJU to compete at the highest levels. Maybe "smooth sailing" and "consistently winning" are mutually exclusive to a certain extent here?

I don't have the answer to that question, but the fact is we are going on 20 years without having both at the same time for any sort of extended period (as in 3 straight years). Right now we have neither. Either it's really hard to accomplish, or we are doing a bad job hiring.
 
and Just to be clear about Hooper, he is graduating this year. Completed his bachelors in 3 years. So, technically he isn't transferring, he is graduating and completing grad school elsewhere. Not many people get their masters in the same institution where they got their bachelors.
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He left to join another basketball team. We're not talking about most college students, we're talking about a basketball player.
 
The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Or maybe it's not and this is the time of year when coaches coming out of two bad losses in the era of the internet and fan forums are specifically prohibited from commenting about incoming players. I wonder how many of the flame throwers on this thread are functioning with malice towards St. John's and specific awareness that evidence of new recruits emerging at this time violates NCAA rules.
 
I haven't read all 90 something posts on this thread so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed already, but can someone tell me what is the "drama" people keep referring to?

Sampson was thinking of the NBA last year, most were convinced then that he would probably enter the draft after his sophomore season. Just because we don't think he is ready doesn't make it drama. It's simply him doing what many here expected him to do.

Obekpa to my knowledge has not stated that he is transferring. Unless & until that happens, give it a rest already.

Unless I missed something, there has been no confirmation that Obekpa refused to re-enter the PC game during the Big East Tournament. All I've seen written is that there may have been an argument or discussion on the bench with the coaching staff. For all we know Obekpa may have been pissed at the refs for the quick whistle and he was expressing it on the bench. Unless we know exactly what was said it's speculation.

Jordan has tweeted he is coming back. So unless there is official news stating something different, I don't see any drama here.

Sanchez, Gift & Marco are graduating. How is that drama?

Hooper is transferring. If you think this "drama" is only limited to St. John's you may want to look at thishttp://zagsblog.com/articles/college-transfer-list/#more-112675

Again, if there is something that I missed that confirms some of the things that so far are nothing but speculation, then I stand corrected, but until then, all of our so called drama is that we have is 3 seniors graduating, one leaving to the NBA a year later than some expected & a player who barely played transferring.
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The drama is we've lost at this point 5 player (Sampson, Hooper, Gift, Sanchez and Marco) and replaced them with nobody! If Obepka leaves, we'll have no front line, and will have what, 7 players under scholarship? That's embarrassing.
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What do you mean if Obepka leaves, is he leaving? That's my point, we are creating scenarios that don't exist yet. We are getting two players next year Jones & Balamou (if his redshirt goes through) that we didn't have this year. As for not having any new recruits, if this is still the case after the spring signing period then I will agree with you 100%, but we are not there yet. From what I've read, some here are saying that DelaRosa is a done deal. I don't buy that because he hasn't announced it yet. So until I hear Obkepa is leaving, he is coming back, & likewise until I hear DelaRosa is coming (from him) he is not yet signed on. No one is happy about how this season went but lets not create scenarios that don't (and hopefully won't) exist.
 
That's a very good point Desco, I don't follow recruiting as much as others do but I am sure there are more than just 100 HS seniors out there that we can target, along with possible JUCO players. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that all is perfect, I am just saying that lets wait & see how things play out.
 
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