Fire Lavin!
- Thread starter Ilzion
- Start date
quote="L J S A" post=113275]
I am certainly averse to hiring those guys. And off the top of my head, I can't think of one assistant I would want.[/quote]
Got it. I liked Wojo alot, but not sold on Antigua. Other than that, I don't know enough about any other assistants.
I am certainly averse to hiring those guys. And off the top of my head, I can't think of one assistant I would want.[/quote]
Got it. I liked Wojo alot, but not sold on Antigua. Other than that, I don't know enough about any other assistants.
If Obekpa leaves, Lavin needs to go with him. It's over, at first, it was thought Sampson was just chasing a dream to go to the nba, and hooper was leaving cause his best friend did. But it's becoming clear why these guys are leaving. Lavin has not just been giving fans the stupid "progress" BS about us slowly getting closer to reaching our goals, he's been talking like this to the players too.
Let me put it this way. How would you feel if you are a player for Steve Lavin, and he is in the locker room getting you all pumped up, telling you that you will keep playing better as a team and make the tournament? Excited right? But then, you go out on the court, and teams are running sets on offense you don't know how to defend. Teams are throwing defenses at you that you've never faced in practice. Teams are greatly in order, move the ball effectively, and run a play almost every time down the court. How would it feel? Because if I'm a player, I feel like this guy that had me all pumped up, left me unprepared and not ready to compete. A cheerleader can only be fun for so long. Eventually, their screams and chants get old, worn out, and annoying. A cheerleader can do all the chanting they want for the team, but in the end, have no impact on the game.
Steve Lavin is nothing more than a hype man. He brought these guys in with a big fat promise that they would be one of the best teams in the big east. And now the players are realizing that their talent alone can't get them far, they need some rule of game coach and strategist to help them reach their desired postseason achievements. And when our players signed to SJU, they probably thought Lavin could be that guy because of his sweet sixteens at UCLA. But when Lav was at UCLA, he was able to get such good talent, those teams were able to make sweet 16s even despite his coaching skills. But this is St. John's, a program that has struggled for a long time. The talent isn't as good, and for us to be a sweet 16 team, it would require Lavin to do something he has never had to do, and that's coach.
My comparison? Steve Lavin and John Calipari are a lot alike. Calipari is not that great of a coach. But the fact that he's at Kentucky, he got such good talent, and the talent learned how to play together at the right time, so he's competing for a spot in the national championship Saturday night. But at St. John's, there isn't as great talent, so the players we have need to be coached correctly. It's a shame, and I've liked Lavin since he came, but it's time. He had a chance to prove that he could really coach, and he failed. He's not at UCLA anymore, and while he brought in very good young players, they just aren't good enough to be great without some type of coaching implemented.
Let me put it this way. How would you feel if you are a player for Steve Lavin, and he is in the locker room getting you all pumped up, telling you that you will keep playing better as a team and make the tournament? Excited right? But then, you go out on the court, and teams are running sets on offense you don't know how to defend. Teams are throwing defenses at you that you've never faced in practice. Teams are greatly in order, move the ball effectively, and run a play almost every time down the court. How would it feel? Because if I'm a player, I feel like this guy that had me all pumped up, left me unprepared and not ready to compete. A cheerleader can only be fun for so long. Eventually, their screams and chants get old, worn out, and annoying. A cheerleader can do all the chanting they want for the team, but in the end, have no impact on the game.
Steve Lavin is nothing more than a hype man. He brought these guys in with a big fat promise that they would be one of the best teams in the big east. And now the players are realizing that their talent alone can't get them far, they need some rule of game coach and strategist to help them reach their desired postseason achievements. And when our players signed to SJU, they probably thought Lavin could be that guy because of his sweet sixteens at UCLA. But when Lav was at UCLA, he was able to get such good talent, those teams were able to make sweet 16s even despite his coaching skills. But this is St. John's, a program that has struggled for a long time. The talent isn't as good, and for us to be a sweet 16 team, it would require Lavin to do something he has never had to do, and that's coach.
My comparison? Steve Lavin and John Calipari are a lot alike. Calipari is not that great of a coach. But the fact that he's at Kentucky, he got such good talent, and the talent learned how to play together at the right time, so he's competing for a spot in the national championship Saturday night. But at St. John's, there isn't as great talent, so the players we have need to be coached correctly. It's a shame, and I've liked Lavin since he came, but it's time. He had a chance to prove that he could really coach, and he failed. He's not at UCLA anymore, and while he brought in very good young players, they just aren't good enough to be great without some type of coaching implemented.
ct_redstorm
Member
I'm not saying that Lavin is a great coach but I don't get the comparison with Calipari. How do you explain the success he had at UMASS and Memphis. I don't think that players chose those programs because of the name on the front of those jerseys. Lavin signed his first full class very quickly. He got a top player in Polee to come before he coached a game, Polee didn't leave because of coach, he left because he saw a bunch of hyped up high school players like Moe, Jakarr, Dom, and Norvell and didn't see himself getting much more playing time. Can't be mad at him for that. Jakarr had no intentions of staying here more than two years since the day he stepped on campus. Max is Max, who really cares why he transferred. A lot of fans are blowing this(the transfers) out of proportion. Chris hasn't transferred and neither has Phil, so let's leave it be. Transferring is unfortunately a very, very common and accepted problem in college basketball today and we are not the only team who has had players leaving their program almost yearly.
I don't buy it. The culmination of Karr saying in an interview early march that he wouldn't leave if he wasn't projected to get drafted, and obekpa refusing to play in a BET game, it smells like something isn't right, so to tell posters that they are blowing these problems out of proportion is misguided IMO, because if you look at various things that have happened over the last two weeks, it's impossible to just say "well transfers are a part of CBB" something more is up here, and we all know it.
Calipari happens to be a sleazy guy at a sleazy program, but he's also a good basketball coach. Yes, he plays the one and done game as well as anyone, but he's not Lavin when it comes to X's and O's. The man can coach. And actually this season is a damn good example. Getting AAU stars to do the little things like set picks, box out, and play 40mims of consistent defense....those are some of the same problems we had, but he got his guys to do it in time for March.
But as for the players, you are in denial Matt. He has managed the program very poorly. Anyway you look at it he's screwed up. We all knew there was a good chance several players would leave, yet he did minimal recruiting this season. You can say Obekpa was a cancer, and that may be true, but Lavin recruited him and brought him here. Posters can blame Dom and Phil for not being as good as their rankings projected, but again Lavin brought them here.
So yes, some players are scum bags and detrimental to the team. Some young men want to lave for the nba no matter what. But Lavin runs the whole program, these things were foreseeable, and he didn't mitigate them damage. Thru either his coaching up of lesser talent, or his recruiting over better talent...the program should be better off than it is right now.
ct_redstorm
Member
I agree with the poor management of the program 100% My post was more about the players who have transferred and are rumored to be leaving than it was about Lavin. I don't understand why posters freak out about Chris and Phil leaving when there is nothing out there but rumors and hearsay. If they decide to transfer then i can see the conversation, but until then I just don't understand it. Phil was back home in Chicago for family reasons, not because he is disgusted with St. John's and I know that for a fact. If the incident with Obekpa on the bench during the PC game was as serious as some on here make it out to be I'm sure we would have heard about it, but not one thing has been said about. It bothers me seeing fans tweet Phil and the rest of the players talking about their future with the team because it brings them into the rumor, which in turn I can guarantee has them, or people around them searching their name on twitter, google etc. Trust me I've been through it with my younger brother.
beast of the east
Active member
Jack,
Sampson isn't just leaving the program - he's giving up his remaining eligibility. I can't say everyone makes rational decisions, but if he was simply upset with this program, he could easily find a home at many D1 schools. To pursue a professional career at this point says to me at least he must know the odds of making an NBA roster are slim, but that he is intent on making money somewhere next year playing basketball. I have know idea what pressures could be the catalyst for this - maybe it's to help family members get out of a bad situation, who knows. But for me at least, I can't chalk this up to mere dissatisfaction with the program, which until his departure stood a reasonable chance at an NCAA bid next season, and good exposure with solid minutes in a nationally known conference.
+1
Agree completely Beast, it's not fair to lay the blame for Sampson's departure at Lavin's feet. Jakarr was going to follow his dream, that's no fault of coach.
However, he should have had a plan in place to replace Sampson, because this was somewhat foreseeable. And maybe he does, but that remains to be seen.
basketballjones
Well-known member
The timing of Sampson leaving is the biggest problem. I think that surprised everyone. He's not at all ready. So, that may have had an effect on recruiting earlier in the year. Recruits at his position see a player improving in his second year and they think next year he's gonna be showcased and I won't get many minutes and the team is deep and I want to play right away. Few people thought he would leave now. He may have planned it all along, but looking at it from a player development standpoint he should be here 1 more year. With one more good year next year he'd have been a first round pick with guaranteed millions. Should Lavin have anticipated this and covered it by bringing in another top 30 small forward? I'm not sure I can blame him for not covering this specific situation.
Word on the street is Lavin will resign if this thread hits 100 pages, keep posting!!