Fire Lavin!

Am I disappointed that St. John's missed the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year? Yes. Do I think this team should be further along than it is? Yes.

But I can't ignore the fact that this group of players has improved every season under Steve Lavin and his staff. They won 13 in '11, 17 in '12, and 20 in '13. This group of players won 10 games in a pretty good conference this year. What ultimately doomed them was a bad OOC schedule in which they lost to 3 power conference opponents (Wisconsin, Penn State, Syracuse) and lost 4 games to Villanova and Xavier. That's pretty much it. They win 1 of those OOC games and knock off Villanova or Xavier and they are dancing. Unfortunately, they didn't and now are playing in the NIT.

For all the fans calling for Lavin's head, what's the point? The guy has brought St. John's to 3 postseason tournaments (albeit 2 of them were the NIT) and has been a great face for the program. Is he perfect? No. He's not going to be mistaken for Krzyzewsky or Boeheim. Those are extraordinary coaches who as long as they are coaching will keep their teams in the hunt every single season. Lavin is not that. And I hate to break it to fans, St. John's will most likely never have that. No big name coach (such as Donovan a few years back) is ever going to leave that type of program to come to Jamaica Queens with a fan base of 6,000 turning out for a conference game. It's just not going to happen guys. And if the program was to strike it rich with a young coach who turned out to be a stud, he'd be gone before you know it by some big program who was willing to double his salary. Lavin is what he is. He's a great recruiter and a so-so game coach. He's going to get talent in the door and keep the team competitive year in and year out. And to be honest, maybe we should be happy with that. Maybe instead of ripping him apart or calling him a crap coach, we should appreciate the job he has done here (made SJU a relatively relevant program again) and support him in the future. While there was a disappointing finish to this year (unless of course they can win the NIT Tournament which would be cool), next year figures to be a pretty good year for them. If everything goes to plan, we might be talking about a 24 or 25 win team. Maybe even a conference championship. So let's just support him and his staff and see where things fall.
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So lets get this straight. We should be happy that out are competitive year in and year out, even if it`s just 19 or 20 wins every year and we get in the NIT?
Even if Obekpa comes back they won`t win 24-25 games, though I could see 22 wins and getting to the NCAA next year.

Support him and his staff? Then give us a reason to support him and his staff.
If no NCAA next year or in 2 years, are we supposed to be all jolly and dancing because he gets us to the NIT?

If you want that then that`s your right. I won`t.

Now if the reports are true about him getting an extension after the season, for what? I guess making the NIT the last 2 years, and getting 2 recruits the last 2 years. Thats tell me that this is acceptable to them.
The day the extension is official, I`m gone.
Probably alot of other dishearted SJU fans will be gone too and everyone on here could complain about the attendance again next year.
But hey Lavin defenders, atleast you won`t have to see negative posts on here anymore.

I`m just saying, he has 2 years left, not saying to can him now, but lets see what he does next year.
If he gets us to the NCAA next year then ok extend him, but why extend him after the nit the last two years?
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Tone it down.
It still amazes me some of you think Lav could waltz in and make this team amazing by the snap of a finger.
It's a process, Rome wasn't built in a day.
The progress has been evident year to year, we are getting there.
I was shocked and disappointed that we didn't make it this year, but at some point you have to look back and see what Lavin inherited. A team of 11 seniors. He had to completely reconstruct this team, most coaches have a few leaders to build around, no, this guy had to get 10-11 guys in a span of two years and get them to play together. And had cancer in the beginning of it all. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I agree 110% we probably should've made the tournament this year. Some of the blame has to be put on Lavin for this, but I put a lot on the players too. The whole argument of its "Lavins players" is so lame. How can he force his guys to come up big in big time games, that comes from within. In the Xavier and Providence games, nothing was wrong with the game planning, the players failed Lavin in these games.

Obekpa leaving is stupid talk, if he plays Tuesday (I'm sure he will) all this talk should go away at least until the season is over. The fact is you are all believing a bunch of fans who claim they know what happened. No one does, so let's wait until something official is said.

We were literally two wins away from a bid, so why is it far fetched to think we will make it next year?
Rysheed will be a stud next year, by far the most special player in the conference next year.
Enough with the doom and gloom, we didn't make it and it sucks. But it's time to move on and support our coach and players as they continue to improve the program. I really think some of you forget where we were as a program just five short years ago. There has been steady improvement, and this team has another chance to take a step forward and win the NIT. I really think hoisting up a trophy, even if it is an NIT trophy, could give this team serious confidence going into next year.

I know I will be killed for being optimistic after the abrupt end to our season, but at some point life has to move on and we need to start to looking at the future.
 
Am I disappointed that St. John's missed the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year? Yes. Do I think this team should be further along than it is? Yes.

But I can't ignore the fact that this group of players has improved every season under Steve Lavin and his staff. They won 13 in '11, 17 in '12, and 20 in '13. This group of players won 10 games in a pretty good conference this year. What ultimately doomed them was a bad OOC schedule in which they lost to 3 power conference opponents (Wisconsin, Penn State, Syracuse) and lost 4 games to Villanova and Xavier. That's pretty much it. They win 1 of those OOC games and knock off Villanova or Xavier and they are dancing. Unfortunately, they didn't and now are playing in the NIT.

For all the fans calling for Lavin's head, what's the point? The guy has brought St. John's to 3 postseason tournaments (albeit 2 of them were the NIT) and has been a great face for the program. Is he perfect? No. He's not going to be mistaken for Krzyzewsky or Boeheim. Those are extraordinary coaches who as long as they are coaching will keep their teams in the hunt every single season. Lavin is not that. And I hate to break it to fans, St. John's will most likely never have that. No big name coach (such as Donovan a few years back) is ever going to leave that type of program to come to Jamaica Queens with a fan base of 6,000 turning out for a conference game. It's just not going to happen guys. And if the program was to strike it rich with a young coach who turned out to be a stud, he'd be gone before you know it by some big program who was willing to double his salary. Lavin is what he is. He's a great recruiter and a so-so game coach. He's going to get talent in the door and keep the team competitive year in and year out. And to be honest, maybe we should be happy with that. Maybe instead of ripping him apart or calling him a crap coach, we should appreciate the job he has done here (made SJU a relatively relevant program again) and support him in the future. While there was a disappointing finish to this year (unless of course they can win the NIT Tournament which would be cool), next year figures to be a pretty good year for them. If everything goes to plan, we might be talking about a 24 or 25 win team. Maybe even a conference championship. So let's just support him and his staff and see where things fall.
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So lets get this straight. We should be happy that out are competitive year in and year out, even if it`s just 19 or 20 wins every year and we get in the NIT?
Even if Obekpa comes back they won`t win 24-25 games, though I could see 22 wins and getting to the NCAA next year.

Support him and his staff? Then give us a reason to support him and his staff.
If no NCAA next year or in 2 years, are we supposed to be all jolly and dancing because he gets us to the NIT?

If you want that then that`s your right. I won`t.

Now if the reports are true about him getting an extension after the season, for what? I guess making the NIT the last 2 years, and getting 2 recruits the last 2 years. Thats tell me that this is acceptable to them.
The day the extension is official, I`m gone.
Probably alot of other dishearted SJU fans will be gone too and everyone on here could complain about the attendance again next year.
But hey Lavin defenders, atleast you won`t have to see negative posts on here anymore.

I`m just saying, he has 2 years left, not saying to can him now, but lets see what he does next year.
If he gets us to the NCAA next year then ok extend him, but why extend him after the nit the last two years?
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Tone it down.
It still amazes me some of you think Lav could waltz in and make this team amazing by the snap of a finger.
It's a process, Rome wasn't built in a day.
The progress has been evident year to year, we are getting there.
I was shocked and disappointed that we didn't make it this year, but at some point you have to look back and see what Lavin inherited. A team of 11 seniors. He had to completely reconstruct this team, most coaches have a few leaders to build around, no, this guy had to get 10-11 guys in a span of two years and get them to play together. And had cancer in the beginning of it all. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I agree 110% we probably should've made the tournament this year. Some of the blame has to be put on Lavin for this, but I put a lot on the players too. The whole argument of its "Lavins players" is so lame. How can he force his guys to come up big in big time games, that comes from within. In the Xavier and Providence games, nothing was wrong with the game planning, the players failed Lavin in these games.

Yes he had to get 10-11 guys in his first two years, That`s not an excuse this year though. Everyone with the NIT experience from last year in which they won a game came back, got a 5* PG, and was getting a legit NBA prospect. So please stop with that excuse.
That excuse ended this year.

Obekpa leaving is stupid talk, if he plays Tuesday (I'm sure he will) all this talk should go away at least until the season is over. The fact is you are all believing a bunch of fans who claim they know what happened. No one does, so let's wait until something official is said.

Hey Jack, trust me I really hope that he come back next year, because if he doesn`t then NIT again next year. If he plays on Tuesday, then I`d have to believe that he never did quit on the team. If he did then why would Steve let him stay on the team.

We were literally two wins away from a bid, so why is it far fetched to think we will make it next year?
Rysheed will be a stud next year, by far the most special player in the conference next year.
Enough with the doom and gloom, we didn't make it and it sucks. But it's time to move on and support our coach and players as they continue to improve the program. I really think some of you forget where we were as a program just five short years ago. There has been steady improvement, and this team has another chance to take a step forward and win the NIT. I really think hoisting up a trophy, even if it is an NIT trophy, could give this team serious confidence going into next year.

I know I will be killed for being optimistic after the abrupt end to our season, but at some point life has to move on and we need to start to looking at the future.
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Nah no reason to kill you for being optimistic. The thing is, I don`t want to take a step backwards next year, but even before the PC game people were saying no way he comes back. Yes, Sanchez, GG, and Marco are replacable, but anyone who watched PC games seen them have their way inside with us. Which is why the only reason I`ll tune in is the see if CO is playing.
I`m saying right now, even though it`s still this, Tuesday`s game is the biggest game for next year.

I`m sure people on here are sick of me lol, so I won`t post again until tonight night.

Sorry, meant to put my posts between his in bold, but it didn`t happen
 
SJUISBACK........I absolutely agree with you. I, too, can't get my head around why people think things are heading in the right direction. We are likely wasting our breath, as there are people on this board who (right through this afternoon!) thought we might get a spot at the dance. The blind optimism is just killing me.
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Who seriously thought we had a chance to make it to the NCAA Tournament, as of today?

Seriously, give this stuff a rest. It's repetitive.
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I saw more than one post of those who thought there was a chance today. I seem to recall one poster providing a website link that listed a 20% chance. Another poster referenced the Providence sight, insinuating that we would be selected for a play in game. Look....you'll find it.
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Once again, who seriously (keyword) thought we had a chance to make the NCAA Tournament? I have a hunch that poster didn't seriously believe we had a chance. More like, they were just messing around, as they only posted percentages. Just because someone makes reference to a Providence site talking about us making the tournament; it doesn't mean they thought we would truly make the tournament. Basically, stating someone feel we shouldn't be left out. That's it!

You're looking too much into things.

Give yourself a rest. I am not tired and intend to express my opinions. It is the purpose of the board.
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A moderator or two has already addressed you about your posts. So, that in itself should tell you that you should be careful about rocking the boat. It could eventually tip over.
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Huh? When has a moderator addressed me and my posts? What guidelines have I violated? I have NEVER used profanity. I have NEVER issued a threat. I have NEVER spoke of race, religion or ethnicity. If this is a board where only positive and optimistic views are welcomed, than I am guilty. Otherwise, please explain.
 
No matter what I think about Lavin and his lack of coaching acumen, not only do I know he's not going anywhere, I'm not suggesting that he should be going anywhere(yet). Over the next few years I expect that things will take care of themselves. We have 2 choices: Either ride it out and hope for the best, or jump ship. I'll begrudgingly(just because that's my personality) ride it out.
 
I think this all comes down to what you consider a 'successful' season. At the end of the day, only 2 teams in the country end their season with a W (NCAA and NIT....CBI doesn't count in my opinion). Every other team will be disappointed.


Would I have preferred an NCAA bid? Absolutely. But let's be realistic, we weren't winning the National Championship this year. Had we made the tournament, we would probably have been in a play-in game, which meant that IF we won the game, we were going up against a #1 seed, a game in which all likelihood we lose.


So what would be better, a likely 2nd/1st round exit in the NCAA's, or a much better chance in the NIT to go on a little run and play a few more games?
 
I think this all comes down to what you consider a 'successful' season. At the end of the day, only 2 teams in the country end their season with a W (NCAA and NIT....CBI doesn't count in my opinion). Every other team will be disappointed.


Would I have preferred an NCAA bid? Absolutely. But let's be realistic, we weren't winning the National Championship this year. Had we made the tournament, we would probably have been in a play-in game, which meant that IF we won the game, we were going up against a #1 seed, a game in which all likelihood we lose.

The chance to play in the NCAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what would be better, a likely 2nd/1st round exit in the NCAA's, or a much better chance in the NIT to go on a little run and play a few more games?
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You're wrong. The play-in game for at large teams is #11 or #12 seeds. Thus, you'd play a #1 or #2 seed in the 4th game if you got that far. This team has the talent to be a single digit seed in the NCAA. An unsuccessful season and very disappointing.
 
I think this all comes down to what you consider a 'successful' season. At the end of the day, only 2 teams in the country end their season with a W (NCAA and NIT....CBI doesn't count in my opinion). Every other team will be disappointed.


Would I have preferred an NCAA bid? Absolutely. But let's be realistic, we weren't winning the National Championship this year. Had we made the tournament, we would probably have been in a play-in game, which meant that IF we won the game, we were going up against a #1 seed, a game in which all likelihood we lose.


So what would be better, a likely 2nd/1st round exit in the NCAA's, or a much better chance in the NIT to go on a little run and play a few more games?
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So we should only be happy with an NCAA bid if we are certain of advancing quite far?
That's ridiculous. The objective every year has to be the tournament.
Lavin has said so himself.
 
A moderator or two has already addressed you about your posts. So, that in itself should tell you that you should be careful about rocking the boat. It could eventually tip over.
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Huh? When has a moderator addressed me and my posts? What guidelines have I violated? I have NEVER used profanity. I have NEVER issued a threat. I have NEVER spoke of race, religion or ethnicity. If this is a board where only positive and optimistic views are welcomed, than I am guilty. Otherwise, please explain.
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No moderator has addressed you or your posts in their capacity as a moderator (publicly or privately). Any reply to your posts in the forum by a moderator is just a poster-to-poster interaction, unless the moderator specifies otherwise. There's no reason for any poster to comment to any other poster about what they think the moderators think or will do.

The board is obviously open to different viewpoints. Some posters (on both sides of "the Lavin issue") would seemingly prefer otherwise, and spend an inordinate amount of time trying to drown out any voice that disagrees with them. That has an unfortunate tendency to make the board unreadable. It would be preferable if people let it go once they've made their point clear, unless there is something new to add. It also isn't useful (and does violate site rules) to "spam the board" or to "get personal" with other posters (i.e. "you're a moron," etc.).

The site rules are available here:

http://redmen.com/1x/homepage/m1-mobih/4-redmentalk/20959-site-rules.html
 
A moderator or two has already addressed you about your posts. So, that in itself should tell you that you should be careful about rocking the boat. It could eventually tip over.
Click to expand...

Huh? When has a moderator addressed me and my posts? What guidelines have I violated? I have NEVER used profanity. I have NEVER issued a threat. I have NEVER spoke of race, religion or ethnicity. If this is a board where only positive and optimistic views are welcomed, than I am guilty. Otherwise, please explain.
Click to expand...

No moderator has addressed you or your posts in their capacity as a moderator (publicly or privately). Any reply to your posts in the forum by a moderator is just a poster-to-poster interaction, unless the moderator specifies otherwise. There's no reason for any poster to comment to any other poster about what they think the moderators think or will do.

The board is obviously open to different viewpoints. Some posters (on both sides of "the Lavin issue") would seemingly prefer otherwise, and spend an inordinate amount of time trying to drown out any voice that disagrees with them. That has an unfortunate tendency to make the board unreadable. It would be preferable if people let it go once they've made their point clear, unless there is something new to add. It also isn't useful (and does violate site rules) to "spam the board" or to "get personal" with other posters (i.e. "you're a moron," etc.).

The site rules are available here:

http://redmen.com/1x/homepage/m1-mobih/4-redmentalk/20959-site-rules.html
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You didn't disappoint just like I thought.
 
I think this all comes down to what you consider a 'successful' season. At the end of the day, only 2 teams in the country end their season with a W (NCAA and NIT....CBI doesn't count in my opinion). Every other team will be disappointed.


Would I have preferred an NCAA bid? Absolutely. But let's be realistic, we weren't winning the National Championship this year. Had we made the tournament, we would probably have been in a play-in game, which meant that IF we won the game, we were going up against a #1 seed, a game in which all likelihood we lose.


So what would be better, a likely 2nd/1st round exit in the NCAA's, or a much better chance in the NIT to go on a little run and play a few more games?
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Clearly it's "to each his own" since there seem to be a decent number of folks who are content with the NIT. The NCAA Tournament is more than just extending your season. Having your team on a line in a bracket makes you instantly relevant, even if just for 5 or 6 days (like many of the small school D-1s who are 15 and 16 seeds). It's not recently, but we had several years of making the tournament more often than not, and that stamp of approval kept us in the mix for recruits and recognition. Only one team will win the whole thing, but the benefits of playing in the Big Dance can be traced all the way down to a first round loss. There are benefits to playing in the NIT as well, but it's not even in the same ballpark. Also, if we were selected, we would not be a play in game, we would be an 11 or 12 seed, which are considered the last 8 in at large. Many many teams in the 11 and 12 spots have made quality runs with a team much like ours. We didn't earn it, we didn't make it, so I'm hoping we make the most out of playing in the NIT.
 
I'm not a Lavin apologist. As I said in my previous post, I believe he is a great recruiter and a so-so coach. But I also can't ignore the fact that in the last 14 seasons, St. John's has only eclipsed the 20 win mark four times. And Lavin was the coach for 2 of those seasons.
 
To be fair, this game shouldn't change anything. We've had 4 seasons to observe Lavin, some want to extend him, and some of us want to replace him.

But tonight's game is likely going to be blown far out of proportion.
 
I know I have been warned, by Lavin defenders, not to be repetitive. But, just wondering, are we allowed to hold the almighty recruiter accountable for anything?

This is a disgrace.
 
i don't know why i watched but i knew they were going to lose. they had their minds set on the ncaa's even though we knew it was out of reach and didn't show any effort today. but how do you (fans/players) not feel embarrassed by losing to robert morris?
 
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