Fire Lavin!
- Thread starter Ilzion
- Start date
beast of the east
Active member
To be fair to the iconic memory of John Wooden, if possible a much bigger man than coach, is that he always maintained that he was NOT the best coach in the country. When asked who, he said, "I had great players, and they won. There are coaches as good or better all across of America, in small towns, church leagues, high schools, who you will never hear their name because they didn't have great players." That should not have been in quotes because it's not a direct statement, but it's the gist of it.
FWIW, Wooden blames himself for the loss to NC state in the NCAA's because he didn't put Meyers on David Thompson.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Check out The Wooden book by Seth Davis. Definitely worth the time to read.
beast of the east
Active member
I have two Wooden books, both autographed, and tucked away somewhere.
Hooper in the game was a mistake that cost us the Providence game. Not playing Gift in the 2nd Nova game (Sanchez out; CO not 100%), imo, cost us that game. I'm not smart enough to point to specific plays but those two personnel decisions cost us.
I do think we need a better inbound play that gets the ball to mid-court or the front court, instead of under the opponents basket. Remember when Dom was criticized for throwing the long inbound pass that Sanchez barely tipped out of bounds. That would have been a better option than what we did against PC and Marquette, where we blew 6pts in 12 seconds.
tom in salem
Well-known member
I'm curious to hear the 7 teams you guys expect SJU to finish above.
I really need a pick me up.
Masiello was just on tv without a tie. I guess that eliminates him as a possible replacement for Lavin.
That was actually the first time I've ever heard Masiello in an interview and I was actually impressed by him. I didn't expect him to be that polished. I would dump Lavin and hire him tomorrow. He's a Pitino disciple and he actually played on a team that won a National Championship. I think this guy is going to be top notch.
beast of the east
Active member
Masiello was just on tv without a tie. I guess that eliminates him as a possible replacement for Lavin.
That was actually the first time I've ever heard Masiello in an interview and I was actually impressed by him. I didn't expect him to be that polished. I would dump Lavin and hire him tomorrow. He's a Pitino disciple and he actually played on a team that won a National Championship. I think this guy is going to be top notch.
If you are going to tout the guy and dump on Lavin for being silver tongued, why not start with the truth, if you know it, or just honesty - whichever would be appreciated. Masiello is from Westchester, walked on at Kentucky, and as such didn't see the light of day in games. In the Metro, a league with more have nots than haves, he finished second at 15-5, two games behind Iona, and only one ahead of powerhouses Quinnipiac and Canisius. IF not for beating Iona by 3 in the MAAC conference, they would be possibly get an NIT bid, but would not be a lock. We know mid major coaches are not a lock when you take the hop up, yet you would hire him and dump Lavin tomorrow based on an interview? What would you then do if Lavin head to head proved to be a better interview?
No doubt he is up and coming, but you have to be joking that you would dump Lavin, who has steadily recruited upwards in the top 100 players, for a guy who has simply done well at Manhattan?
Let me ask you a single simple question, and I'll presuppose it for you: Lavin started his year 2 roster with just one scholarship player, the esteemed Malik Stith, courtesy of Norm Roberts I-don't-give-a-frick-about-tomorrow-cause-I'm-saving-my-ass-today recruiting strategy. Scrambling to fill a roster, he gambled on Nurideen Lindsay, and lost, but grabbed a sugar coated plum Mo Harkless. Cancer aside, he coached last year and this year with his own guys, right? Ok, here's the question, are you still reading? It's an SAT question, so follow along.
Given that this team won 20+ games, went 10-8 in conference, and spent the last few minutes of a ton of very close games dislodging chunks of apples from their throats (did you notice the Heimlich maneuver during timeouts?), where do you think , wait, since you know, where do you KNOW this SJU team would finish if they had an NBA player on their roster, you know someone who could dominate and lead them, say, a Mo Harkless?
Come on, you can do it, you can do it? Don't worry, if you get it wrong, you will still probably get admitted to the 377th best school in the US.
For you and your fire Lavin buddies, all of whom I respect as long as they aren't asses on here, I will answer for you if you didn't do well at reading comprehension. Thanks!
Hey Beast:
Nice attempt to spin using Mr. Harkless' transfer 2 years ago as an excuse.
News flash.... kids leave for the NBA, get injured, and transfer which events should surprise an experienced college basketball coach. Injuries, early departure for the NBA and transfers are reasons why successful coaches recruit each year.
To his credit Mr. Lavin did not take the season off during the 2014 recruiting cycle because it has been reported (see Rivals) that Lavin extended 14 scholarship offers to players during the 2014 recruiting cycle but was turned down 13 times with only 3* DelaRosa a realistic possibility.
I am not in the "Fire Lavin" group but I believe that he has serious flaws and I lack the level of confidence in his abilities which I once had. IMO he gets a grade of "incomplete"
Nice attempt to spin using Mr. Harkless' transfer 2 years ago as an excuse.
News flash.... kids leave for the NBA, get injured, and transfer which events should surprise an experienced college basketball coach. Injuries, early departure for the NBA and transfers are reasons why successful coaches recruit each year.
To his credit Mr. Lavin did not take the season off during the 2014 recruiting cycle because it has been reported (see Rivals) that Lavin extended 14 scholarship offers to players during the 2014 recruiting cycle but was turned down 13 times with only 3* DelaRosa a realistic possibility.
I am not in the "Fire Lavin" group but I believe that he has serious flaws and I lack the level of confidence in his abilities which I once had. IMO he gets a grade of "incomplete"
To be fair in regards to Harkless we pretty much had zero players when he came in and he was considered 1 of the best players if not the best that we were getting ( yeah I know Dom might have been ranked higher but I remember guys on the sites who I respect a lot thinking Harkless was the best player coming in ) and him leaving after 1 year did hurt a lot because we had a team that couldn't afford to lose any players.
It's not an excuse it's a fact. Us losing our marquee player after 1 year when at that time we were extremely young hurt more than an already established team losing a guy early to the nba
It's not an excuse it's a fact. Us losing our marquee player after 1 year when at that time we were extremely young hurt more than an already established team losing a guy early to the nba
beast of the east
Active member
Otis, Otis, man, I wish I was you in Missouri somewhere sitting on a dock on the edge of a bay, BUT, that wasn't the question. He does have flaws, point in case, the decision to load up with foul shooter with a 1 point lead and 20 seconds to go vs. Providence.
How many kids left early for the NBA in the prior 10 years before Harkless?
The question was, where would be this season with a player like Harkless added onto this roster, Lavin's coaching ability included. I'll answer it for you, and you'll hate the answer since you love misery - at least 14-4, and maybe as good as 16-2. We'd be waiting right now to see where they were sending us, and how high a seed we'd get.
Thank you. Don't worry, St. John's just called. You're admitted anyways.
westchesterjoe
Active member
I don't think Lavin should be fired but, I'm not ready to give him any extension just yet..He gets his personally chosen players for their senior years, Harrison, Greene, Pointer and Sampson, Jordan, Obepka, Branch, Jones. We're still waiting on any 2014 recruits or transfers or juco's.
This team was NIT last year and NIT this year. Improvement? Not really. Last year 8and 8 I think. This year 10and 8. Modest gain.
If the NCAA is the benchmark to which Steve should be held to, he's got work to do. Going to the NCAA with Roberts players in year 1 was a nice accomplishment but, it was 4 years ago.
St Joe's and Virginia both jumped up to the NCAA Dance this year. We didn't and the team in total, is accountable, including the Coaches. Let's give him next year to get to the Dance before extending him beyond his 6 year contract. A good coach would be able to get to the NCAA'S MORE THAN ONCE EVERY 5 YEARS.
And, please don't anyone bring up his UCLA record as a credential that certifies him. He was run out of Westwood just short of the tars and feathers for much the same reasons as we are questioning him now. .
It seems to me, despite all the PR he puts out, he just hasn't been able to motivate his players to play hard for 40 minutes in any big game and that's a problem. A lot of guys Coaching in the BE seem to drain every ounce of effort from his players,i.e Cooley, Wright, Williams, even, Willard at Seton Hall. I don't feel Steve has that capability on a consistent enough basis.
This team was NIT last year and NIT this year. Improvement? Not really. Last year 8and 8 I think. This year 10and 8. Modest gain.
If the NCAA is the benchmark to which Steve should be held to, he's got work to do. Going to the NCAA with Roberts players in year 1 was a nice accomplishment but, it was 4 years ago.
St Joe's and Virginia both jumped up to the NCAA Dance this year. We didn't and the team in total, is accountable, including the Coaches. Let's give him next year to get to the Dance before extending him beyond his 6 year contract. A good coach would be able to get to the NCAA'S MORE THAN ONCE EVERY 5 YEARS.
And, please don't anyone bring up his UCLA record as a credential that certifies him. He was run out of Westwood just short of the tars and feathers for much the same reasons as we are questioning him now. .
It seems to me, despite all the PR he puts out, he just hasn't been able to motivate his players to play hard for 40 minutes in any big game and that's a problem. A lot of guys Coaching in the BE seem to drain every ounce of effort from his players,i.e Cooley, Wright, Williams, even, Willard at Seton Hall. I don't feel Steve has that capability on a consistent enough basis.
beast of the east
Active member
Since you're on and breathing, would you offer your answer to my question?
Masiello was just on tv without a tie. I guess that eliminates him as a possible replacement for Lavin.
That was actually the first time I've ever heard Masiello in an interview and I was actually impressed by him. I didn't expect him to be that polished. I would dump Lavin and hire him tomorrow. He's a Pitino disciple and he actually played on a team that won a National Championship. I think this guy is going to be top notch.
If you are going to tout the guy and dump on Lavin for being silver tongued, why not start with the truth, if you know it, or just honesty - whichever would be appreciated. Masiello is from Westchester, walked on at Kentucky, and as such didn't see the light of day in games. In the Metro, a league with more have nots than haves, he finished second at 15-5, two games behind Iona, and only one ahead of powerhouses Quinnipiac and Canisius. IF not for beating Iona by 3 in the MAAC conference, they would be possibly get an NIT bid, but would not be a lock. We know mid major coaches are not a lock when you take the hop up, yet you would hire him and dump Lavin tomorrow based on an interview? What would you then do if Lavin head to head proved to be a better interview?
No doubt he is up and coming, but you have to be joking that you would dump Lavin, who has steadily recruited upwards in the top 100 players, for a guy who has simply done well at Manhattan?
Let me ask you a single simple question, and I'll presuppose it for you: Lavin started his year 2 roster with just one scholarship player, the esteemed Malik Stith, courtesy of Norm Roberts I-don't-give-a-frick-about-tomorrow-cause-I'm-saving-my-ass-today recruiting strategy. Scrambling to fill a roster, he gambled on Nurideen Lindsay, and lost, but grabbed a sugar coated plum Mo Harkless. Cancer aside, he coached last year and this year with his own guys, right? Ok, here's the question, are you still reading? It's an SAT question, so follow along.
Given that this team won 20+ games, went 10-8 in conference, and spent the last few minutes of a ton of very close games dislodging chunks of apples from their throats (did you notice the Heimlich maneuver during timeouts?), where do you think , wait, since you know, where do you KNOW this SJU team would finish if they had an NBA player on their roster, you know someone who could dominate and lead them, say, a Mo Harkless?
Come on, you can do it, you can do it? Don't worry, if you get it wrong, you will still probably get admitted to the 377th best school in the US.
For you and your fire Lavin buddies, all of whom I respect as long as they aren't asses on here, I will answer for you if you didn't do well at reading comprehension. Thanks!
Beast, I don't want to hear about Harkless. Guys leave programs early all the time and the good coaches like Calipari, Donavan, Pitino etc. brings the same level of kid the next season to take his place. Lavin had two top 10 recruiting classes and couldn't get his team to the NCAA Tourney. I don't think this season or this was an embarrassment as some have stated but I expected more and if Lavin can't get this team there with this much Talent in a watered down Big East something needs to change.
beast of the east
Active member
Masiello was just on tv without a tie. I guess that eliminates him as a possible replacement for Lavin.
That was actually the first time I've ever heard Masiello in an interview and I was actually impressed by him. I didn't expect him to be that polished. I would dump Lavin and hire him tomorrow. He's a Pitino disciple and he actually played on a team that won a National Championship. I think this guy is going to be top notch.
If you are going to tout the guy and dump on Lavin for being silver tongued, why not start with the truth, if you know it, or just honesty - whichever would be appreciated. Masiello is from Westchester, walked on at Kentucky, and as such didn't see the light of day in games. In the Metro, a league with more have nots than haves, he finished second at 15-5, two games behind Iona, and only one ahead of powerhouses Quinnipiac and Canisius. IF not for beating Iona by 3 in the MAAC conference, they would be possibly get an NIT bid, but would not be a lock. We know mid major coaches are not a lock when you take the hop up, yet you would hire him and dump Lavin tomorrow based on an interview? What would you then do if Lavin head to head proved to be a better interview?
No doubt he is up and coming, but you have to be joking that you would dump Lavin, who has steadily recruited upwards in the top 100 players, for a guy who has simply done well at Manhattan?
Let me ask you a single simple question, and I'll presuppose it for you: Lavin started his year 2 roster with just one scholarship player, the esteemed Malik Stith, courtesy of Norm Roberts I-don't-give-a-frick-about-tomorrow-cause-I'm-saving-my-ass-today recruiting strategy. Scrambling to fill a roster, he gambled on Nurideen Lindsay, and lost, but grabbed a sugar coated plum Mo Harkless. Cancer aside, he coached last year and this year with his own guys, right? Ok, here's the question, are you still reading? It's an SAT question, so follow along.
Given that this team won 20+ games, went 10-8 in conference, and spent the last few minutes of a ton of very close games dislodging chunks of apples from their throats (did you notice the Heimlich maneuver during timeouts?), where do you think , wait, since you know, where do you KNOW this SJU team would finish if they had an NBA player on their roster, you know someone who could dominate and lead them, say, a Mo Harkless?
Come on, you can do it, you can do it? Don't worry, if you get it wrong, you will still probably get admitted to the 377th best school in the US.
For you and your fire Lavin buddies, all of whom I respect as long as they aren't asses on here, I will answer for you if you didn't do well at reading comprehension. Thanks!
Beast, I don't want to hear about Harkless. Guys leave programs early all the time and the good coaches like Calipari, Donavan, Pitino etc. brings the same level of kid the next season to take his place. Lavin had two top 10 recruiting classes and couldn't get his team to the NCAA Tourney. I don't think this season or this was an embarrassment as some have stated but I expected more and if Lavin can't get this team there with this much Talent in a watered down Big East something needs to change.
Gene, we ARENT Kentucky, Florida, or Louisville. NEVER were. Our best teams of all times had 4 year players. This program NEVER could just reload, and replace an Artest (who left early), even a Cook. We've had precious few guys leave early for the NBA.
So, could you answer the question, and not just debate the reality of Harkless leaving?
Masiello was just on tv without a tie. I guess that eliminates him as a possible replacement for Lavin.
That was actually the first time I've ever heard Masiello in an interview and I was actually impressed by him. I didn't expect him to be that polished. I would dump Lavin and hire him tomorrow. He's a Pitino disciple and he actually played on a team that won a National Championship. I think this guy is going to be top notch.
If you are going to tout the guy and dump on Lavin for being silver tongued, why not start with the truth, if you know it, or just honesty - whichever would be appreciated. Masiello is from Westchester, walked on at Kentucky, and as such didn't see the light of day in games. In the Metro, a league with more have nots than haves, he finished second at 15-5, two games behind Iona, and only one ahead of powerhouses Quinnipiac and Canisius. IF not for beating Iona by 3 in the MAAC conference, they would be possibly get an NIT bid, but would not be a lock. We know mid major coaches are not a lock when you take the hop up, yet you would hire him and dump Lavin tomorrow based on an interview? What would you then do if Lavin head to head proved to be a better interview?
No doubt he is up and coming, but you have to be joking that you would dump Lavin, who has steadily recruited upwards in the top 100 players, for a guy who has simply done well at Manhattan?
Let me ask you a single simple question, and I'll presuppose it for you: Lavin started his year 2 roster with just one scholarship player, the esteemed Malik Stith, courtesy of Norm Roberts I-don't-give-a-frick-about-tomorrow-cause-I'm-saving-my-ass-today recruiting strategy. Scrambling to fill a roster, he gambled on Nurideen Lindsay, and lost, but grabbed a sugar coated plum Mo Harkless. Cancer aside, he coached last year and this year with his own guys, right? Ok, here's the question, are you still reading? It's an SAT question, so follow along.
Given that this team won 20+ games, went 10-8 in conference, and spent the last few minutes of a ton of very close games dislodging chunks of apples from their throats (did you notice the Heimlich maneuver during timeouts?), where do you think , wait, since you know, where do you KNOW this SJU team would finish if they had an NBA player on their roster, you know someone who could dominate and lead them, say, a Mo Harkless?
Come on, you can do it, you can do it? Don't worry, if you get it wrong, you will still probably get admitted to the 377th best school in the US.
For you and your fire Lavin buddies, all of whom I respect as long as they aren't asses on here, I will answer for you if you didn't do well at reading comprehension. Thanks!
Beast, Masiello is an up and coming coach who you would not have to pay 2 million dollars a year. He's a Pitino disciple who I feel from watching some of their games is a good coach. Lavin is getting paid like a top 10 coach. The salary does not equal the results that he is producing. I think any coach worth their salt could have won 20 games with the talent and depth that we had on this roster. It's just my opinion, and we all know about opinions, but I think Masiello is going to become a top tier coach heading a very big program.
While I'm definitely no fan, I think it would be counter-productive at this point to get rid of Lavin.
But there's no reason for the school to commit to another 6 years at $2/million a year--quadruple what Roberts was making--until we get some tangible proof that he can deliver. He is not being paid to deliver us to the NIT every year, he is being paid like someone who actually gets his team to the Big Dance.
But there's no reason for the school to commit to another 6 years at $2/million a year--quadruple what Roberts was making--until we get some tangible proof that he can deliver. He is not being paid to deliver us to the NIT every year, he is being paid like someone who actually gets his team to the Big Dance.