Fire Lavin!

[beast of the east]

Its hopeless to talk sense into people.

Lavin is the personality this program needs to handle the NYC market and has done a great job at bringing respect to this program and finally having high ranked recruits interested in the program. Everyone is expecting this program to be Kentucky, or Syracuse or 1985 Final Four SJU in a matter of 5 year? are you delusional? we have been irrelevant in 14 years. Money is finally starting to come into the program, facilities are being upgraded and Lavin is a big part of everything coming together. Whitesell is here for X's and O's but sometimes you cant help it if there is a bad ball bounce or bad call at the end of the game. This year we had that unfortunate instance more than a few times but still made it to 20 wins.

The improvement has been steady year over year and that is something we can look forward to.

Can we please delete this thread?

Whose respect has he brought to the program? The NCAA Tourney selection committee? I don't think so. The Fans? Fan attendance is dropping.

As for bringing in high-rated recruits, the only group to make it to the Tourney in the Lavin era were Norm's kids.

Why should fan attendance drop when he had a must win game at MSG vs. Xavier - was that a reason to stay home? Or home vs. DePaul? Or Thursday in the biggest Big East game we had in 20 years

 

[westchesterjoe]

What's the criteria to judge attendance at a particular game, other than announced crowd? Vs, Providence how do you gauge our fan attendance? By the number of Red Sweatshirts? Or, for 34 minutes there was zero to cheer about coming from our team? Our fans had 6 minutes to root and the last few seconds were again all Providence. For anyone's attention, look at ACC ATTENDANCE IN Greensboro. There were many, many empty seats for last nights game, even with Syracuse and Duke playing

Depaul doesn't draw in Chicago. They suffer from the same crap BB for the last 15-20 as we do. Xavier was a week night game at MSG and was it a 7pm or 9pm start? The time the games are played are all factors.As is our weather.

Sure, we can't fill a 20,000 NYC venue like MSG with all SJU fans. Maybe 12,000 tops, unless the team is a contender.

 

[beast of the east]

What's the criteria to judge attendance at a particular game, other than announced crowd? Vs, Providence how do you gauge our fan attendance? By the number of Red Sweatshirts? Or, for 34 minutes there was zero to cheer about coming from our team? Our fans had 6 minutes to root and the last few seconds were again all Providence. For anyone's attention, look at ACC ATTENDANCE IN Greensboro. There were many, many empty seats for last nights game, even with Syracuse and Duke playing

Depaul doesn't draw in Chicago. They suffer from the same crap BB for the last 15-20 as we do. Xavier was a week night game at MSG and was it a 7pm or 9pm start? The time the games are played are all factors.As is our weather.

Sure, we can't fill a 20,000 NYC venue like MSG with all SJU fans. Maybe 12,000 tops, unless the team is a contender.

First off, DePaul has sucked since Ray Meyer and Mark Aguirre days, and for much of the Ray Meyer days, too. Don't compare SJU to DePaul

Now about the St John's-Prov game, your post is a total load of pigeon turd in terms of reasons to cheer. The score at halftime was 36-33, with plenty of reasons for breathing fans to cheer their team on. Rather then roll over with 6 1/2 minutes to go, they put on a furious charge. Still, most fans were glued to their seats. The announced attendance is based on sales, and was 14,925. Impossible to unravel, since many seats were bought in full strips for fans of teams not playing and went unused. By the pockets of fans, it looked like based on cheers, most of Providence's fans were students behind the basket. We had fans scattered throughout the arena.

Of course if we ever return to a top ten berth thousands of fans will flock back and declare that they were in their seats during the bad times. Which we know would be a blatant lie. These are not the dark days, people. Wake up.

 

[T6K0E6]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

 

[bamafan]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

A successful season is making the ncaa t and 20 wins is not what it used to be when teams played 25-26 games and 20-6 would be considered a good year. Now with exempt tournaments most teams play 31 plus at least one in the conf t so 20-12 ain't getting it done as you can see by our plight. Walt Frazier said on todays Knick telecast that when he won the NIT in the 60's there were 18 ncaa and 18 nit teams and we went to a post season every year. Now there are 68 ncaa and 32 nit for a total of 100 teams and we either stay home or maybe make the nit save for 2011. All adds up to not good.

 

[redfazed]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

And losing turns fans away. Going 0-5 to start the season was the death knell for fan attendance this season. And as someone else mentioned, people are not going to pay top dollar to watch the equivalent of unorganized street ball.

Even that second win at Marquette--being up by 6 point with 11 seconds left and blowing it. 6 points,11 seconds!! It was embarrassing. You cannot blame fans for not being enthused.

 

[mjmaherjr]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

I agree winning puts people in the seats but I am 100% sure pricing keeps some people out also. The school needs to do a better job of having pricing deals especially at the garden ( people have said they might not have control over that but if we are actually renting the garden then I don't see how we don't have a say in it ). There should be some sort of game by game deal for cheaper seats in designated sections in the upper deck where you get lower prices but you have to buy a certain amount of tickets.

This eliminates people looking to just save and buy only 1 ticket. This will encourage people to bring friends or people to bring family like Zanman. 4 tickets for $60 or something like that. Pretty much every person is going to buy some sort of concessions especially if they are bringing their kids. MSG will certainly make more money off something like this. It's things like this that will build on top of your fan base. A family of 4 going to the game is going to spend at least another $40 in concessions. A freaking bottle of water is $5.25. Heck buying the beer is almost better value. At least that's what I tell my fiancee.

 

[MJDinkins]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

And losing turns fans away. Going 0-5 to start the season was the death knell for fan attendance this season. And as someone else mentioned, people are not going to pay top dollar to watch the equivalent of unorganized street ball.

Even that second win at Marquette--being up by 6 point with 11 seconds left and blowing it. 6 points,11 seconds!! It was embarrassing. You cannot blame fans for not being enthused.

That was embarrassing?! Seriously? Inexcusable, perhaps. But surely not embarrassing.

Besides, they won the game. I, seriously doubt fans turned away because the Johnnies "almost" lost a game (even, more so against a quality opponent on their home court). :yawn:

 

[redfazed]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

And losing turns fans away. Going 0-5 to start the season was the death knell for fan attendance this season. And as someone else mentioned, people are not going to pay top dollar to watch the equivalent of unorganized street ball.

Even that second win at Marquette--being up by 6 point with 11 seconds left and blowing it. 6 points,11 seconds!! It was embarrassing. You cannot blame fans for not being enthused.

That was embarrassing?! Seriously? Inexcusable, perhaps. But surely not embarrassing.

Besides, they won the game. I, seriously doubt fans turned away because the Johnnies "almost" lost a game (even, more so against a quality opponent on their home court). :yawn:

Yes, embarrassing. Seriously.

I stated that the fans were turned off by the 0-5 start and the unorganized street-ball quality to our play. The Marquette debacle just reinforced that- we luckily won and I give the kids full credit for pulling it out.

 

[dee]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

And losing turns fans away. Going 0-5 to start the season was the death knell for fan attendance this season. And as someone else mentioned, people are not going to pay top dollar to watch the equivalent of unorganized street ball.

Even that second win at Marquette--being up by 6 point with 11 seconds left and blowing it. 6 points,11 seconds!! It was embarrassing. You cannot blame fans for not being enthused.

That was embarrassing?! Seriously? Inexcusable, perhaps. But surely not embarrassing.

Besides, they won the game. I, seriously doubt fans turned away because the Johnnies "almost" lost a game (even, more so against a quality opponent on their home court). :yawn:

Yes, embarrassing. Seriously.

I stated that the fans were turned off by the 0-5 start and the unorganized street-ball quality to our play. The Marquette debacle just reinforced that- we luckily won and I give the kids full credit for pulling it out.

I continue to like and support Lavin. I have said he could use a better x and o coach and wish we had Dunlop back but that aside I want him to stay for the long term. I only wish he would recruit some kids from the nyc area

 

[monte]

For starters there was never any buzz around this team. Combine that with no more UCONN, Louisville, ND and even Pitt. All marquis programs that would bring their own fans and who impartial fans would come out to watch. The fact of the matter is that the product on the court was not very appealing to the average fan. And we have never been able to come anywhere near filing the Garden with just our fans.

 

[gman]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

20 wins means nothing nowadays. Teams with 24-25 wins get left out of he tournament. 20 wins just guarantees you an nit bid. The casual fan won't show unless the team is ranked and playing a ranked team.

 

[Section3]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

I agree winning puts people in the seats but I am 100% sure pricing keeps some people out also. The school needs to do a better job of having pricing deals especially at the garden ( people have said they might not have control over that but if we are actually renting the garden then I don't see how we don't have a say in it ). There should be some sort of game by game deal for cheaper seats in designated sections in the upper deck where you get lower prices but you have to buy a certain amount of tickets.

This eliminates people looking to just save and buy only 1 ticket. This will encourage people to bring friends or people to bring family like Zanman. 4 tickets for $60 or something like that. Pretty much every person is going to buy some sort of concessions especially if they are bringing their kids. MSG will certainly make more money off something like this. It's things like this that will build on top of your fan base. A family of 4 going to the game is going to spend at least another $40 in concessions. A freaking bottle of water is $5.25. Heck buying the beer is almost better value. At least that's what I tell my fiancee.

Spot on

 

[GardenCity62]

Fan apathy is certainly a problem in SJU attendance but there does seem to be some things SJU could do to improve fan interest.
Play 5 Big East games at MSG (Geo, Vill every year and 3 of the others depending on pre season ratings). In place of the 2 games moved to CA play 2 national teams who are a bigger draw . This of course would make a tougher schedule but should put more fans in the seats.
I have no idea what power SJU has in regard to pricing at MSG but at Ca charging 30 dollars for upper level seats vs Longwood, Youngstown etc for a game on TV comes off as either arrogance or stupidity.
By not offering children's or high school tickets for these Nov Dec games assures 1500 empty seats.

 

[Section3]

Fan apathy is certainly a problem in SJU attendance but there does seem to be some things SJU could do to improve fan interest.
Play 5 Big East games at MSG (Geo, Vill every year and 3 of the others depending on pre season ratings). In place of the 2 games moved to CA play 2 national teams who are a bigger draw . This of course would make a tougher schedule but should put more fans in the seats.
I have no idea what power SJU has in regard to pricing at MSG but at Ca charging 30 dollars for upper level seats vs Longwood, Youngstown etc for a game on TV comes off as either arrogance or stupidity.
By not offering children's or high school tickets for these Nov Dec games assures 1500 empty seats.

1st step is to recognize and acknowledge that you have a problem...wonder if the athletic department sees a problem?

 

[stjohnschris]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

No doubt there are different standards of what the administration feels is a successful season and what a passionate fan thinks a successful season is. We won 20 games, there was no ugly press that made the school look bad, and nobody got suspended for more than missing a team bus or late to practice. Apparently, to some fans/alumni, this is A-OK.
BUT, we will not make the tournament this year, we underachieved in every sportswriters eyes, and we have a respectable and loyal fan base that will grab onto just about any slight glimmer of hope that we will once again become a relevant program in the college basketball world.
This was not a successful season, there was no buzz, none of the hype materialized, and we didn't even come close to breaking the top 25. 20 wins only sounds moderately impressive on paper for someone who didn't follow the team.

 

[Class of 72]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

No doubt there are different standards of what the administration feels is a successful season and what a passionate fan thinks a successful season is. We won 20 games, there was no ugly press that made the school look bad, and nobody got suspended for more than missing a team bus or late to practice. Apparently, to some fans/alumni, this is A-OK.
BUT, we will not make the tournament this year, we underachieved in every sportswriters eyes, and we have a respectable and loyal fan base that will grab onto just about any slight glimmer of hope that we will once again become a relevant program in the college basketball world.
This was not a successful season, there was no buzz, none of the hype materialized, and we didn't even come close to breaking the top 25. 20 wins only sounds moderately impressive on paper for someone who didn't follow the team.

First of all, there is still more basketball to be played. During the Norm Roberts era making the NIT was a pipe dream. Lavin took his players and made them an NCAA team.
Recruiting improved but we signed players with many issues, from academic to personal. This year was no different with Rysheed Jordan and his family issues and slow adaption to college ball. Orlando Sanchez, projected to be an NBA level player was not even close to the hype and Dom Pointer continued his descent into low IQ basketball.
There are a lot of warts on this team and winning 20 games and going on a run in a tough Big East is still an accomplishment. Virginia was a great NIT team last year and rose to the top of the ACC. Syracuse was ranked #1 for much of the season and yet they have struggled in the last half of ACC play losing 5 of 7 and winning games by a couple of points since mid February. Their fall has been more dramatic even with them going to the dance.
The Big East was raped by the ACC and ESPN and yet it has been a success given its short six months of life. Once Ackerman gets more aggressive in expansion and schools like SJ and Gtown regroup, the Big East will still be a top 6 conferrence and its tourney will still inspire dreams at MSG. That dream came true for the Providence Friars with smart, tough basketball. Next year I fully expect it will be St. John's year.

 

[redmaninalbany]

candidly, the question is when will St John's be able to "regroup"...especially if we lost Jordan after another year?
Will it be
when the high schools seniors of 2015, who we hope we can identify and recruit, become upper classmen
in 2019? What is there to suggest we can do with no freshmen coming in of consequence next season, forcing
us to rebuild with high freshmen recruits in 2016...
I believe in hope and optimism but it would be nice if there was some substantive basis to go along with a positive attitude.

 

[doodyny33]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

No doubt there are different standards of what the administration feels is a successful season and what a passionate fan thinks a successful season is. We won 20 games, there was no ugly press that made the school look bad, and nobody got suspended for more than missing a team bus or late to practice. Apparently, to some fans/alumni, this is A-OK.
BUT, we will not make the tournament this year, we underachieved in every sportswriters eyes, and we have a respectable and loyal fan base that will grab onto just about any slight glimmer of hope that we will once again become a relevant program in the college basketball world.
This was not a successful season, there was no buzz, none of the hype materialized, and we didn't even come close to breaking the top 25. 20 wins only sounds moderately impressive on paper for someone who didn't follow the team.

First of all, there is still more basketball to be played. During the Norm Roberts era making the NIT was a pipe dream. Lavin took his players and made them an NCAA team.
Recruiting improved but we signed players with many issues, from academic to personal. This year was no different with Rysheed Jordan and his family issues and slow adaption to college ball. Orlando Sanchez, projected to be an NBA level player was not even close to the hype and Dom Pointer continued his descent into low IQ basketball.
There are a lot of warts on this team and winning 20 games and going on a run in a tough Big East is still an accomplishment. Virginia was a great NIT team last year and rose to the top of the ACC. Syracuse was ranked #1 for much of the season and yet they have struggled in the last half of ACC play losing 5 of 7 and winning games by a couple of points since mid February. Their fall has been more dramatic even with them going to the dance.
The Big East was raped by the ACC and ESPN and yet it has been a success given its short six months of life. Once Ackerman gets more aggressive in expansion and schools like SJ and Gtown regroup, the Big East will still be a top 6 conferrence and its tourney will still inspire dreams at MSG. That dream came true for the Providence Friars will smart, tough basketball. Next year I fully expect it will be St. John's year.

Honestly, I just don't see St. John's being that much better next season. Put very simply, I don't think Lavin can coach with these guys.

 

[Class of 72]

The reason for fan attendance is nothing more than the NY Apathy.

If your team wins, and this team did, there is nothing to complain about.

Winning puts fans in the seats, the team won 20 games this season, which by many standards 20 games or more is a successful season. If the fans do not show up there is nothing more that you can do.

No doubt there are different standards of what the administration feels is a successful season and what a passionate fan thinks a successful season is. We won 20 games, there was no ugly press that made the school look bad, and nobody got suspended for more than missing a team bus or late to practice. Apparently, to some fans/alumni, this is A-OK.
BUT, we will not make the tournament this year, we underachieved in every sportswriters eyes, and we have a respectable and loyal fan base that will grab onto just about any slight glimmer of hope that we will once again become a relevant program in the college basketball world.
This was not a successful season, there was no buzz, none of the hype materialized, and we didn't even come close to breaking the top 25. 20 wins only sounds moderately impressive on paper for someone who didn't follow the team.

First of all, there is still more basketball to be played. During the Norm Roberts era making the NIT was a pipe dream. Lavin took his players and made them an NCAA team.
Recruiting improved but we signed players with many issues, from academic to personal. This year was no different with Rysheed Jordan and his family issues and slow adaption to college ball. Orlando Sanchez, projected to be an NBA level player was not even close to the hype and Dom Pointer continued his descent into low IQ basketball.
There are a lot of warts on this team and winning 20 games and going on a run in a tough Big East is still an accomplishment. Virginia was a great NIT team last year and rose to the top of the ACC. Syracuse was ranked #1 for much of the season and yet they have struggled in the last half of ACC play losing 5 of 7 and winning games by a couple of points since mid February. Their fall has been more dramatic even with them going to the dance.
The Big East was raped by the ACC and ESPN and yet it has been a success given its short six months of life. Once Ackerman gets more aggressive in expansion and schools like SJ and Gtown regroup, the Big East will still be a top 6 conferrence and its tourney will still inspire dreams at MSG. That dream came true for the Providence Friars will smart, tough basketball. Next year I fully expect it will be St. John's year.

Honestly, I just don't see St. John's being that much better next season. Put very simply, I don't think Lavin can coach with these guys.

The wizard won 20 games with these guys. There were 3 losses that doomed their NCAA at large hopes - Penn State, DePaul and Providence. 23 wins would have put them in the NCAA. Crap happens and unfortunately it crapped on us.
I see a vast improvement next year with everyone returning. Jordan, Sampson and Harrison will be better players given their experience and hardships. Obekpa is developing an offensive game and Christian Jones will easily replace Orlando Sanchez IMO. The only other option is to support another team and if you are a SJ grad and live in NYC that is not an option.