Fire Lavin!

hate the timeout when we cut it to four
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I agree that that was annoying, but he's been doing that all year. And in fairness I think I heard billy Donovan say he likes to do the same thing, call a timeout to set up your defense and not squander the points you've earned, when you're coming back from a deficit.


Bottom line, he wasn't perfect bit coach has done much much worse than he did tonight. T he right guys were playing, they just played like crap.
 
hate the timeout when we cut it to four
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I agree that that was annoying, but he's been doing that all year. And in fairness I think I heard billy Donovan say he likes to do the same thing, call a timeout to set up your defense and not squander the points you've earned, when you're coming back from a deficit.


Bottom line, he wasn't perfect bit coach has done much much worse than he did tonight. T he right guys were playing, they just played like crap.
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I feel our bubble busted Saturday. We came out flat tonight most likely split that last two games. I thought same happen in 2010-11 when we lost Seton Hall our momentum went out the window.
 
Should the Knicks have fired Pat Riley when Charles Smith couldn't make a layup to beat the Bulls or when John Starks had one of the worst games of his career, shooting 2-for-18 from the field, including 0-for-10 in the fourth quarter denying the Knicks of the NBA Championship

Coaches get credit when their team wins and get shitted on when their team loses. Bottom line is maybe, just maybe this team isn't as good as you thought it was.
 
Should the Knicks have fired Pat Riley when Charles Smith couldn't make a layup to beat the Bulls or when John Starks had one of the worst games of his career, shooting 2-for-18 from the field, including 0-for-10 in the fourth quarter denying the Knicks of the NBA Championship

Coaches get credit when their team wins and get shitted on when their team loses. Bottom line is maybe, just maybe this team isn't as good as you thought it was.
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Uhg! So, please, tell me what bad coaching would look like to you. Seriously, how would you describe a poorly coached team.
 
Should the Knicks have fired Pat Riley when Charles Smith couldn't make a layup to beat the Bulls or when John Starks had one of the worst games of his career, shooting 2-for-18 from the field, including 0-for-10 in the fourth quarter denying the Knicks of the NBA Championship

Coaches get credit when their team wins and get shitted on when their team loses. Bottom line is maybe, just maybe this team isn't as good as you thought it was.
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Uhg! So, please, tell me what bad coaching would look like to you. Seriously, how would you describe a poorly coached team.
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Was Calipari a bad coach last year when KY went 21-12 and lost in the 1st round of the NIT?
Just because you have highly ranked high school bb players doesn't translate to being successful in college.
 
I dont put this one on Lavin. Did he coach a perfect game? absolutely not. But the players gave away SO many opportunities in the first half and almost as many in the second half. Never got the big stop and were never able to get over the hump. Being down by 4 felt like we were down by 12. And dlo might have had the worst game of his career, I love him to death, but he killed us tonight.
 
I dont put this one on Lavin. Did he coach a perfect game? absolutely not. But the players gave away SO many opportunities in the first half and almost as many in the second half. Never got the big stop and were never able to get over the hump. Being down by 4 felt like we were down by 12. And dlo might have had the worst game of his career, I love him to death, but he killed us tonight.
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That's fair, but it overlooks the underlying issue, which is that he does next to nothing to help the players succeed. Not every player is an NBA talent who is capable of creating and scoring for himself. Most of our offense (outside of the open court game) is isolation. Not only that, it is isolation without anything else being run to give the ballhandler an option.

IMHO it is the coach's job to put the players in a position to succeed, and the things we do on offense do nothing to create open looks for anyone. I don't count a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, which are our two big plays.

So yes, while the players did not play a good game tonight, it's also true that nothing has ever been installed to give them a better chance to succeed.
 
Ive been very quick to get on Lavin and couldnt agree more that he is a major weakness in terms of fundementals and x's and 0's. Just tonight thought that we should have won regardless. Missed opportunities.
 
hate the timeout when we cut it to four
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I need to ask a question. Maybe I`m dumb and maybe the hot hand needs to be taking out, but
WTF TAKE SANCHEZ OUT SANCHEZ WHEN HE WAS 4-5 FOR 11PNTS EARLY ON.
F`ing whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Can someone explain Lavin stragery?
 
First, I happen to loath Calipari, but he has won a national championship. Second, my point is not the underachieving. The underachieving is a biproduct. What I am taking exception to is an offense that is fundamentally inferior to what many high school programs run. That is not an exaggeration and those that really know the game will confirm.

Again, Lavin is a good guy. He carries himself with class and represents the program in a consistently respectable manner. However, WE NEED A BASKETBALL COACH!!!
 
I agree with a lot of the frustration Tom expressed. This was a bad bad loss.
But I don't think this game is the time to blame coach.
There were things I disagreed with, sure. But at the end of the day he played his 3 best players (Harrison, Jordan, Sampson) 30+mins each. He had branch running the offense when Jordan wasn't in there, and he kept his rotation short,and barely played hooper and gift. This is what we've all been asking for, and what he wasn't doing earlier in the season.

For the most part, he had the right guys on the court. Dom playing 5 less mins wouldn't have meant sh$t. The team was exposed tonight.

There will b a time to evaluate coach.
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Played Gift just long enough for him to miss lay ups, all his foul shots and fumble away every pass. But do agree with your post.
 
hate the timeout when we cut it to four
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I need to ask a question. Maybe I`m dumb and maybe the hot hand needs to be taking out, but
WTF TAKE SANCHEZ OUT SANCHEZ WHEN HE WAS 4-5 FOR 11PNTS EARLY ON.
F`ing whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Can someone explain Lavin stragery?
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Lavin pulled Orlando after he picked up his second foul middle of the first half, and Orlando has been known to accumulate fouls quickly.
 
I agree with a lot of the frustration Tom expressed. This was a bad bad loss.
But I don't think this game is the time to blame coach.
There were things I disagreed with, sure. But at the end of the day he played his 3 best players (Harrison, Jordan, Sampson) 30+mins each. He had branch running the offense when Jordan wasn't in there, and he kept his rotation short,and barely played hooper and gift. This is what we've all been asking for, and what he wasn't doing earlier in the season.

For the most part, he had the right guys on the court. Dom playing 5 less mins wouldn't have meant sh$t. The team was exposed tonight.

There will b a time to evaluate coach.
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Played Gift just long enough for him to miss lay ups, all his foul shots and fumble away every pass. But do agree with your post.
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Yep...and I suppose it's Lavin's fault that out 6'9 center couldn't make a layup or hit free throws. How dare coach Lavin for not practicing layups or free throws!!
 
I suspect that passing the ball from the elbow to the corner and then to a cutter diving to the baseline for a layup has been tried before last night's game. I also suspect that basketball coaches have figured out ways to defend against that particular offensive maneuver. Who at St John's is responsible for teaching our players how to defend against that approach to getting layup after layup after layup?
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
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Fair enough, so as one of the more rational and intelligent posters on this board what do you suggest?
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
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Fair enough, so as one of the more rational and intelligent posters on this board what do you suggest?
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Sorry to interject, but a less rational poster like myself would like to respond.

First off, the season is by no means over yet. I still believe the team will win enough games to get a bid.

Secondly, these are his kids who he brought in, and he will certainly get to coach them as seniors. I was twisted like a pretzel watching this team too, especially during the bleak January games. I was wondering if Lavin and the program were not going to work out. But the kids never gave up on the coach or the season. And neither has Lavin.

Bad loss last night? Absolutely. It still stings. But the kids need to get back on the horse, beat DePaul and get to it again a week later against Marquette, before the BE tourney. Not looking back now. These kids have one more push in them.
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
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Fair enough, so as one of the more rational and intelligent posters on this board what do you suggest?
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Are you sure this was addressed to me? "Rational and intelligent" are not usually adjectives associated with me!! Seriously, I think this team is underachieving but to me it is a collective failure and just blaming Lavin is wrong; it's not that simple. For example (and just one small one), this team just gets KILLED on any type of pick and roll action and I don't believe for a second that Lavin and co. don't know and teach how to play the pick and roll. However, on the court, our decision making and communication as a team is so bad we get burned consistently. It that the fault of teacher or student? I would contend probably some of both. But back to Lavin, he is a recruiter and I think that is where any program begins and ends. He is an excellent ambassador for the program and while I disagree to some degree, as Marillac has pointed out, this is essentially his first group of recruits starting from a very poor and unique situation, replacing a whole team at the 11th hour in the recruiting world. Now I may feel differently if we strike out with 2015 and 2016 recruiting but from where I sit I just don't see where changing coaches does anything but bring us back to square one. I also think anyone we may get at this point is going to be as much a question mark as a "home run" so I just don't think it makes sense to blow this up yet. Also, and this is an argument I made with NR, have we given Lavin a fair amount of time considering where we were as a program when he came? I would say no, especially given his health problems, and what kind of coach are we going to get if we just continue to demonstrate how unstable our situation is?
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
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Fair enough, so as one of the more rational and intelligent posters on this board what do you suggest?
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Are you sure this was addressed to me? "Rational and intelligent" are not usually adjectives associated with me!! Seriously, I think this team is underachieving but to me it is a collective failure and just blaming Lavin is wrong; it's not that simple. For example (and just one small one), this team just gets KILLED on any type of pick and roll action and I don't believe for a second that Lavin and co. don't know and teach how to play the pick and roll. However, on the court, our decision making and communication as a team is so bad we get burned consistently. It that the fault of teacher or student? I would contend probably some of both. But back to Lavin, he is a recruiter and I think that is where any program begins and ends. He is an excellent ambassador for the program and while I disagree to some degree, as Marillac has pointed out, this is essentially his first group of recruits starting from a very poor and unique situation, replacing a whole team at the 11th hour in the recruiting world. Now I may feel differently if we strike out with 2015 and 2016 recruiting but from where I sit I just don't see where changing coaches does anything but bring us back to square one. I also think anyone we may get at this point is going to be as much a question mark as a "home run" so I just don't think it makes sense to blow this up yet. Also, and this is an argument I made with NR, have we given Lavin a fair amount of time considering where we were as a program when he came? I would say no, especially given his health problems, and what kind of coach are we going to get if we just continue to demonstrate how unstable our situation is?
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Excellent post, Logen.
 
I have been critical of Lavin and generally think this is a very poorly coached team but to me the idea of firing him is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, so as one of the more rational and intelligent posters on this board what do you suggest?
Click to expand...

Are you sure this was addressed to me? "Rational and intelligent" are not usually adjectives associated with me!! Seriously, I think this team is underachieving but to me it is a collective failure and just blaming Lavin is wrong; it's not that simple. For example (and just one small one), this team just gets KILLED on any type of pick and roll action and I don't believe for a second that Lavin and co. don't know and teach how to play the pick and roll. However, on the court, our decision making and communication as a team is so bad we get burned consistently. It that the fault of teacher or student? I would contend probably some of both. But back to Lavin, he is a recruiter and I think that is where any program begins and ends. He is an excellent ambassador for the program and while I disagree to some degree, as Marillac has pointed out, this is essentially his first group of recruits starting from a very poor and unique situation, replacing a whole team at the 11th hour in the recruiting world. Now I may feel differently if we strike out with 2015 and 2016 recruiting but from where I sit I just don't see where changing coaches does anything but bring us back to square one. I also think anyone we may get at this point is going to be as much a question mark as a "home run" so I just don't think it makes sense to blow this up yet. Also, and this is an argument I made with NR, have we given Lavin a fair amount of time considering where we were as a program when he came? I would say no, especially given his health problems, and what kind of coach are we going to get if we just continue to demonstrate how unstable our situation is?
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This is a great post, and I agree with much of what you said. However, I still think the underlying issue is what Lawmanfan has constantly pointed out, this team does not run plays! That to me is inexcusable.
 
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