Dunn Visit

[quote="MCNPA" post=355255]

It matters because our most recent history is of at least moderate success, not failure. Any kids who have seen us recently saw huge crowds and SJU winning, not losing.[/quote]

Is that your take away from the Mullin error? Interesting.

Mine is that we fired the hometown hero after 4 years of failing to win 50% of our conference games in a season even once. The process of terminating and then replacing him was possibly the single worst/most embarrassing month in this programs history, and we've had some REALLY embarrassing months over the last 30 years.

Which one do you think impacts potential recruits more? CMA pointing out that the old coach was gifted an NCAA play in game (which we lost) or other staff's telling recruits and their parents how big of a shit show/mom & pop organization we have been for all of that kids time on this planet?
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=355253]The third year is the class that should have put him over the top and proving that we have bad luck especially him Rob Thomas went down with the injury. If he didnt get hurt and Kitchen played etc who knows what could have happened although he was still a pretty awful coach[/quote]

I don't disagree that things could have been different if Thomas and Kitchen worked out. But that wasn't the point he made. His point was that even Norm was landing BE caliber players out of the gate, which he wasn't. It was his 3rd class before he landed anyone at that level.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355268][quote="mjmaherjr" post=355253]The third year is the class that should have put him over the top and proving that we have bad luck especially him Rob Thomas went down with the injury. If he didnt get hurt and Kitchen played etc who knows what could have happened although he was still a pretty awful coach[/quote]

I don't disagree that things could have been different if Thomas and Kitchen worked out. But that wasn't the point he made. His point was that even Norm was landing BE caliber players out of the gate, which he wasn't. It was his 3rd class before he landed anyone at that level.[/quote]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355268][quote="mjmaherjr" post=355253]The third year is the class that should have put him over the top and proving that we have bad luck especially him Rob Thomas went down with the injury. If he didnt get hurt and Kitchen played etc who knows what could have happened although he was still a pretty awful coach[/quote]

I don't disagree that things could have been different if Thomas and Kitchen worked out. But that wasn't the point he made. His point was that even Norm was landing BE caliber players out of the gate, which he wasn't. It was his 3rd class before he landed anyone at that level.[/quote]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

Totally agree. I expect one 4 star or impact JUCO in that class. Anything else is gravy. Its tough to play catch up on kids your we weren't recruiting in just a couple of months, and most of those kids will commit by November.

The 2021 class will be a fair measuring stick for how this staff is cutting it with the local recruiting scene.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200
 
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[quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.
 
There has been a lot of misinformation in this thread. I already showed that CMA recruited top 150 talent very, very well while at Arkansas and did not get by on mid-major talent. A couple more things to note since the narratives keep changing:

1. Generally about 85%+ of top 100 recruits commit before the start of the prior season (I've been tracking Big East recruiting over at Holy Land over the past 6 years). So by beginning of November there will only be a couple dozen top 150 recruits remaining. That is especially true for the 4 star recruits (50-150 range). The 5 star one and done recruits with loads of options are more likely to wait until the Spring. We've already seen half the Big East land a top 150 recruit for 2020. Obviously we have plenty of time left, but we should expect a couple 2020 commits by the Fall.
2. Anderson has recruited high level D1 players for 15 years now. Why are some acting like he needs 2 years to land top recruits? He should have a significantly lower learning curve than the Yale coach, for instance. He also formed prior relationships with recruits while at Arkansas.

I do believe we should be patient because CMA seems like a great hire and he's certainly putting in the work. Results should follow but that is not yet a guarantee. I just don't like the push back when some simply question Dunn as a 2020 solution. Discussion is great but it isn't when the push back contains a lot of false narratives. I don't like the notion that we should wait until 2021 to land top 150 recruits (Mullin/Lavin/CMA at Arkansas all landed a lot of top 50/100/150 recruits within their first year).

We absolutely should have expectations for the 2020 class. We should have expectations for things to get rolling before the start of the season. We can have expectations and still be happy with the hire.

I believe that we will land a couple top 200 caliber recruits before November, and that will ease up the tension on here.
 
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All of the talk about comparisons up and none about the need to avoid the pitfalls of "dirty" practices that have so plagued D1 recruiting and player eligibility. Satayana lives.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=355284]All of the talk about comparisons up and none about the need to avoid the pitfalls of "dirty" practices that have so plagued D1 recruiting and player eligibility. Satayana lives.[/quote] One thing you dont have to worry about w CMA is dirty recruiting. But its hard to compete w programs that recruit dirty.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.
 
[quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355244][quote="Monte" post=355223]
Agree completely. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: every single coach who has ever been here, including Norm, was able to recruit Big East level talent right out of the gate. CMA, especially with his track record of success, should be no different. I’m not passing judgement, but so far I’m not thrilled with the haul. Especially compared to what our other staffs did right out of the gate. But honestly, that’s the only thing I’m not completely happy about with this staff. So I’ll take a “wait and see” approach with recruiting.[/quote]

Really?

Norm lost his best player as a transfer coming in (Ingrham).

Norm's First Class was: Ced Jackson (3*), Eugene Lawrence (2*), Dexter Gray (3*) and transfers: Rodney Epperson, Ryan Williams, and Jeremaine Maybank.

Norm's 2nd class was Mason Jr (3/4*'s), Ricky Torres (3*) and T. Jasulonis (2*) plus Transfer Aaron Spears.

So in his first two recruiting classes Norm landed ONE above average BE player in Mason Jr.

His 3rd class had more talent, but the top two player (Kitchen) didn't get on the court at St Johns and the 2nd highest ranked transferred out after 1 season.

Maybe its me, but I don't see a ton of BE level talent in that mix. Just lots of transfers and 2-3 star recruits.[/quote]

Actually you are correct, it did take Norm longer to get Big East level talent. So I stand corrected. But he took over with no head coaching experience, during the worst period in the program’s history and with his hands tied as to the kind of kids he could recruit. So Norm gets a pass for on his first few classes. Again, I’m not passing judgement on CMA’s recruiting, but he gets no such recruiting pass.
 
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[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355268][quote="mjmaherjr" post=355253]The third year is the class that should have put him over the top and proving that we have bad luck especially him Rob Thomas went down with the injury. If he didnt get hurt and Kitchen played etc who knows what could have happened although he was still a pretty awful coach[/quote]

I don't disagree that things could have been different if Thomas and Kitchen worked out. But that wasn't the point he made. His point was that even Norm was landing BE caliber players out of the gate, which he wasn't. It was his 3rd class before he landed anyone at that level.[/quote]

FWIW Ced Jackson not only turned out to be a Big East level talent, even if that happened at Cleveland State, he turned out to be an NBA player. Albeit for not very long.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355288][quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue[/quote]

N/M
 
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[quote="austour" post=355313][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355288][quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue[/quote]

N/M[/quote]
Nope... Incessant Whining about sums it up.

Yawn.
 
[quote="Red Bloods" post=355330][quote="austour" post=355313][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355288][quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue[/quote]

N/M[/quote]
Nope... Incessant Whining about sums it up.

Yawn.[/quote]

More insults - because I have a different view than you about a college basketball program. Good stuff.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355340][quote="Red Bloods" post=355330][quote="austour" post=355313][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355288][quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue[/quote]

N/M[/quote]
Nope... Incessant Whining about sums it up.

Yawn.[/quote]

More insults - because I have a different view than you about a college basketball program. Good stuff.[/quote]


It don’t matter if you say 100 good things about CMA, if you voice just one concern, or disagree with just one thing that CMA does, you will get chastised, ridiculed, insulted, etc. Thankfully not by the majority, but by some. Including at least one condescending mod. That’s pretty much why I rarely post any more.
 
[quote="Monte" post=355344][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355340][quote="Red Bloods" post=355330][quote="austour" post=355313][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355288][quote="austour" post=355286][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355280][quote="austour" post=355274][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355270]

I have been thinking about a good comp for projected recruiting in 2020, instead of doing my job.

I have come up with Jeff Capel at Pitt. He is entering year 2 after going 14-19 in year 1, when he took over a program with past success and a rich history that had recently fallen on hard times (albeit for a shorter period than we have).

Capel's 2019 class (his second) has, per 247, a 4 star recruit and three 3 star recruits, and is the 50th ranked class nationally. While I'd love to aim a little higher, this seems like a reasonable comp to me. Thoughts?[/quote]

My thought is if you want to make this comparison you need to wait 10-12 months to see where CMA and his class are at a similar point. At this point 12 months ago Capel had nothing.

Here's the commit dates of Pitt's class:
Drumgoole 4* Feb 18, 2019
Coulibably 3* Feb 15, 2019
The other Champagnie 3* Mar 14, 2019
Murphy 3* JC May 8, 2019

However apples is apples is not what you seem to be doing in your posts. PS, I'd rather see 2 4 stars and 2 3 stars at this point next year. ;)

PS only one of Pitt's recruits are in the top 200[/quote]

I'm not comparing what we have now to Capel's 2019 class at all. I'm saying this should be the expectation for whenever the class is complete. Where exactly did I say we should have 4 2020 recruits locked up already, that's silly.[/quote]

Sorry, I took you incessant whining for complaining about results to date. My bad.[/quote]

LOL - your bad, but you'll throw out a needless insult anyway - such virtue[/quote]

N/M[/quote]
Nope... Incessant Whining about sums it up.

Yawn.[/quote]

More insults - because I have a different view than you about a college basketball program. Good stuff.[/quote]


It don’t matter if you say 100 good things about CMA, if you voice just one concern, or disagree with just one thing that CMA does, you will get chastised, ridiculed, insulted, etc. Thankfully not by the majority, but by some. Including at least one condescending mod. That’s pretty much why I rarely post any more.[/quote]

Appreciate that. Thought i was being picked on but perhaps i'm just someone's flavor of the week. I was also wondering about the mods yesterday when i was called "clueless", a "complete fool" and sarcastically "genius", but perhaps those protections are only afforded to long-time posters.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355347][quote="Monte" post=355344]

It don’t matter if you say 100 good things about CMA, if you voice just one concern, or disagree with just one thing that CMA does, you will get chastised, ridiculed, insulted, etc. Thankfully not by the majority, but by some. Including at least one condescending mod. That’s pretty much why I rarely post any more.[/quote]

Appreciate that. Thought i was being picked on but perhaps i'm just someone's flavor of the week. I was also wondering about the mods yesterday when i was called "clueless", a "complete fool" and sarcastically "genius", but perhaps those protections are only afforded to long-time posters.[/quote]

To be clear, I am picking on you but it's not because of your message (mostly). Look above, we agree with acceptable Class of '20 expectations. I am picking on you because of the way you say what you say,t and the frequency with which you say it.

I will add that you could argue with yourself if you took the guy who posted the class expectations and debated the guy that complains every time a recruit cuts st johns from the list. That would be fun.
 
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