Dunn Visit

Anderson recruited extremely well at Arkansas (top 50 classes in 7/8 years), and Dunn seems like a filler player rather than a starter. Obviously the cycle is VERY early and we're all just bored on a message board, but it's valid to question if Dunn is a Big East level player. Anderson had a great resume at Arkansas, both in terms of recruiting and winning, but the thing about recruiting is it's a very shady business. Often ACs are the ones making "deals" without the HC knowing. Am I saying this was the case with Anderson's time at Arkansas? No. I am simply stating he is still unproven at St. John's as a recruiter. Some of us aren't thrilled when names like Dunn are thrown around as 2020 players. Dunn may ultimately be an outlier, but until we sign a solid recruit or two it's fine to be hesitant about questionable players rather than fake excitement. It's also fine for those who genuinely believe Dunn would be a solid player (and not just our backup plan) to be excited.
 
Last edited:
A matter of priorities but to me, Top 50 class is pretty much where you should be if you are in a power conference. Accounting for how teams are built in the recruiting cycles, the teams that consistently miss that mark are bottom dwellers or looking for new coaches. Even our guy this did not satisfy the Arkansas fans. The consistency is itself impressive however. Massive peaks and valleys are the hero ball of coaching and what we had with Lavin that really hurt us long term.
 
[quote="Knight" post=355130]It's going to take a while for SJU to be recognized by skilled recruits as a possible landing point. New coach, new style, etc.[/quote]
At this point, too many years of irrelevance. We need to start wining before getting 4 star recruits to seriously consider SJ.

Lavin was a skilled recruiter and Mullin had name recognition. They both had some initial recruiting success. Honeymoon only lasts so long.

Mike Anderson doesn’t have the name recognition and is fighting against the last 20 years. No guarantee he succeeds but it won’t be for lack of effort.
 
[quote="Section3" post=355212][quote="Knight" post=355130]It's going to take a while for SJU to be recognized by skilled recruits as a possible landing point. New coach, new style, etc.[/quote]
At this point, too many years of irrelevance. We need to start wining before getting 4 star recruits to seriously consider SJ.

Lavin was a skilled recruiter and Mullin had name recognition. They both had some initial recruiting success. Honeymoon only lasts so long.

Mike Anderson doesn’t have the name recognition and is fighting against the last 20 years. No guarantee he succeeds but it won’t be for lack of effort.[/quote]

C'mon, this is nonsense. We have a new, extremely capable head coach and 3 new assistants who each have their own impressive track record recruiting in their own right. Are you telling me they won't be able to sell their own vision because of losing sustained by the program when none of them, nor any of the players, nor the Athletic Director were even here? If that's the case, they are really not good at their jobs. Enough with the built in excuses.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355214][quote="Section3" post=355212][quote="Knight" post=355130]It's going to take a while for SJU to be recognized by skilled recruits as a possible landing point. New coach, new style, etc.[/quote]
At this point, too many years of irrelevance. We need to start wining before getting 4 star recruits to seriously consider SJ.

Lavin was a skilled recruiter and Mullin had name recognition. They both had some initial recruiting success. Honeymoon only lasts so long.

Mike Anderson doesn’t have the name recognition and is fighting against the last 20 years. No guarantee he succeeds but it won’t be for lack of effort.[/quote]

C'mon, this is nonsense. We have a new, extremely capable head coach and 3 new assistants who each have their own impressive track record recruiting in their own right. Are you telling me they won't be able to sell their own vision because of losing sustained by the program when none of them, nor any of the players, nor the Athletic Director were even here? If that's the case, they are really not good at their jobs. Enough with the built in excuses.[/quote]not what I’m saying...day 1, they are absolutely fighting against the past, I think they will succeed. But, think it is unrealistic to think that they were going to bring in top recruits during this first cycle.
 
[quote="Section3" post=355216][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355214][quote="Section3" post=355212][quote="Knight" post=355130]It's going to take a while for SJU to be recognized by skilled recruits as a possible landing point. New coach, new style, etc.[/quote]
At this point, too many years of irrelevance. We need to start wining before getting 4 star recruits to seriously consider SJ.

Lavin was a skilled recruiter and Mullin had name recognition. They both had some initial recruiting success. Honeymoon only lasts so long.

Mike Anderson doesn’t have the name recognition and is fighting against the last 20 years. No guarantee he succeeds but it won’t be for lack of effort.[/quote]

C'mon, this is nonsense. We have a new, extremely capable head coach and 3 new assistants who each have their own impressive track record recruiting in their own right. Are you telling me they won't be able to sell their own vision because of losing sustained by the program when none of them, nor any of the players, nor the Athletic Director were even here? If that's the case, they are really not good at their jobs. Enough with the built in excuses.[/quote]not what I’m saying...day 1, they are absolutely fighting against the past, I think they will succeed. But, think it is unrealistic to think that they were going to bring in top recruits during this first cycle.[/quote]

Why are the fighting against the past though? What does the past have to do with anything? Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this.
 
I was hoping for bigger impact recruiting even late but I’m fine waiting and hoping for things to get bigger. 2 people I trust implicitly who know a hell of a lot more than me about hoops are beyond impressed with how him and staff are running practice and one friend who goes occasionally to practice every coach since Lou and was monster Dunlap fan says CMA and literally the entire staff run the best practices he has seen for any sju coach we have had. He’s not a recruiting guru my friend but he said CMA definitely runs the ship so I’m hoping kids get coached up and we get the hall with bigger recruiting
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217][quote="Section3" post=355216][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355214][quote="Section3" post=355212][quote="Knight" post=355130]It's going to take a while for SJU to be recognized by skilled recruits as a possible landing point. New coach, new style, etc.[/quote]
At this point, too many years of irrelevance. We need to start wining before getting 4 star recruits to seriously consider SJ.

Lavin was a skilled recruiter and Mullin had name recognition. They both had some initial recruiting success. Honeymoon only lasts so long.

Mike Anderson doesn’t have the name recognition and is fighting against the last 20 years. No guarantee he succeeds but it won’t be for lack of effort.[/quote]

C'mon, this is nonsense. We have a new, extremely capable head coach and 3 new assistants who each have their own impressive track record recruiting in their own right. Are you telling me they won't be able to sell their own vision because of losing sustained by the program when none of them, nor any of the players, nor the Athletic Director were even here? If that's the case, they are really not good at their jobs. Enough with the built in excuses.[/quote]not what I’m saying...day 1, they are absolutely fighting against the past, I think they will succeed. But, think it is unrealistic to think that they were going to bring in top recruits during this first cycle.[/quote]

Why are the fighting against the past though? What does the past have to do with anything? Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this.[/quote]

Agree completely. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: every single coach who has ever been here, including Norm, was able to recruit Big East level talent right out of the gate. CMA, especially with his track record of success, should be no different. I’m not passing judgement, but so far I’m not thrilled with the haul. Especially compared to what our other staffs did right out of the gate. But honestly, that’s the only thing I’m not completely happy about with this staff. So I’ll take a “wait and see” approach with recruiting.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."
 
[quote="Monte" post=355223]
Agree completely. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: every single coach who has ever been here, including Norm, was able to recruit Big East level talent right out of the gate. CMA, especially with his track record of success, should be no different. I’m not passing judgement, but so far I’m not thrilled with the haul. Especially compared to what our other staffs did right out of the gate. But honestly, that’s the only thing I’m not completely happy about with this staff. So I’ll take a “wait and see” approach with recruiting.[/quote]

Really?

Norm lost his best player as a transfer coming in (Ingrham).

Norm's First Class was: Ced Jackson (3*), Eugene Lawrence (2*), Dexter Gray (3*) and transfers: Rodney Epperson, Ryan Williams, and Jeremaine Maybank.

Norm's 2nd class was Mason Jr (3/4*'s), Ricky Torres (3*) and T. Jasulonis (2*) plus Transfer Aaron Spears.

So in his first two recruiting classes Norm landed ONE above average BE player in Mason Jr.

His 3rd class had more talent, but the top two player (Kitchen) didn't get on the court at St Johns and the 2nd highest ranked transferred out after 1 season.

Maybe its me, but I don't see a ton of BE level talent in that mix. Just lots of transfers and 2-3 star recruits.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=355154][quote="MCNPA" post=355146][quote="JohnnyFan" post=355145]Obviously, Dunn is not a prized recruit. But, before jumping to concerns that CMA is not aiming high enough, consider the 2020 targets he and staff are involved with.

The 2019 class has been assembled in less than 120 days. The expectation, for that time frame, is to retain existing talent (done) and grab as many serviceable players as possible. It's hard to ask for more than that.[/quote]

I suppose my concern was more with Paultzman’s comment that Dunn was a hedge bet for our 2020 guard prospects. It’s concerning to me because I can’t see Dunn as a hedge for us landing some significant Big East-level talent in 2020. We are under-talented on the roster already to most Big East teams by a decent margin except for LJ, Heron and maybe one or two others and they are likely both gone after this season. Bottom line is that if we don’t land some real talent for 2020, we are going to be stuck with a mid-major roster for the most part for the foreseeable future. I don’t think we can afford to strike out or land marginal kids for 2020.

I’m not trying to put an unreasonable expectation out there. Much of this scenario was created by the prior staff with almost nil young talent on the roster. Regardless, we are in dire need of more talent on the roster otherwise we will not be going very far. I don’t care what kind of system we have, talent goes out and scores the points and wins games.[/quote]
To be clear, my hedge bet comment re off guards was a possibility in my mind, not a preference. Secondly, they seem well positioned for Posh A for PG need.[/quote]

I’d love to lock up Posh sooner rather than later if possible. I hope his grades aren’t an issue though.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

We are also coming off an NCAA tourney appearance.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=355250][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

We are also coming off an NCAA tourney appearance.[/quote]

To be fair, that should be as irrelevant as all of the losing. Why does the tourney appearance matter? We are doing a total reboot.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355244][quote="Monte" post=355223]
Agree completely. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: every single coach who has ever been here, including Norm, was able to recruit Big East level talent right out of the gate. CMA, especially with his track record of success, should be no different. I’m not passing judgement, but so far I’m not thrilled with the haul. Especially compared to what our other staffs did right out of the gate. But honestly, that’s the only thing I’m not completely happy about with this staff. So I’ll take a “wait and see” approach with recruiting.[/quote]

Really?

Norm lost his best player as a transfer coming in (Ingrham).

Norm's First Class was: Ced Jackson (3*), Eugene Lawrence (2*), Dexter Gray (3*) and transfers: Rodney Epperson, Ryan Williams, and Jeremaine Maybank.

Norm's 2nd class was Mason Jr (3/4*'s), Ricky Torres (3*) and T. Jasulonis (2*) plus Transfer Aaron Spears.

So in his first two recruiting classes Norm landed ONE above average BE player in Mason Jr.

His 3rd class had more talent, but the top two player (Kitchen) didn't get on the court at St Johns and the 2nd highest ranked transferred out after 1 season.

Maybe its me, but I don't see a ton of BE level talent in that mix. Just lots of transfers and 2-3 star recruits.[/quote] The third year is the class that should have put him over the top and proving that we have bad luck especially him Rob Thomas went down with the injury. If he didnt get hurt and Kitchen played etc who knows what could have happened although he was still a pretty awful coach
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355252][quote="MCNPA" post=355250][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

We are also coming off an NCAA tourney appearance.[/quote]

To be fair, that should be as irrelevant as all of the losing. Why does the tourney appearance matter? We are doing a total reboot.[/quote]

It matters because our most recent history is of at least moderate success, not failure. Any kids who have seen us recently saw huge crowds and SJU winning, not losing.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=355255][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355252][quote="MCNPA" post=355250][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

We are also coming off an NCAA tourney appearance.[/quote]

To be fair, that should be as irrelevant as all of the losing. Why does the tourney appearance matter? We are doing a total reboot.[/quote]

It matters because our most recent history is of at least moderate success, not failure. Any kids who have seen us recently saw huge crowds and SJU winning, not losing.[/quote]

But aside from perhaps tying that winning to a handful of returning players, what's the connection to the future of the program?
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

Yes, Sorry you missed the point because you were so close to it. I'll try again.

The thing that remains the same is THE SCHOOL. It's still run by the same people. It still has the same (poor) reputation today that it did 4 days, 4 weeks, 4 months and 4 years ago.

To mix metaphors, yes we have changed out the chef, so in theory the food poisoning issue should be in the past and not an issue going forward. But we still have the same owner ship and the same name branded on the building.
If we actually were a restaurant, we could fire the staff, change the name, change the decor and buy food from new suppliers. Basically we could start over from scratch, reinvent ourselves and build a new brand.

Unfortunately, as a university, we don't have that luxury. The new coach has to deal with all the baggage the school has accumulated over the years. Sure he can clean house and change things around for the future, but that doesn't happen overnight just because you hire new staff and change uniforms, or just because some fans demand it happen right away.

CMA is a BRAND based on his career and his accomplishments. STJ is a BRAND also, and sadly its not at the same level as our new HC's brand. At least not yet. CMA can clearly sell his brand. His successful career is proof of that.

But can he sell our brand? Maybe, but nobody else has been able too for the last two decades. Not consistently anyway. I think its patently unfair to EXPECT a new coach to be able to sell a brand as poor as ours currently is before he's even coached a game here.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=355261][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355249][quote="SJUFAN2" post=355238][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]
Why are the fighting against the past though? [/quote] Because life, let alone college basketball recruiting, doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]What does the past have to do with anything? [/quote]
When you go for a check up with your Doctor does he/she ask you what your diet and exercise regime is going to be like tomorrow? When you go for a job interview, is your resume only full of the jobs you'll have in the future?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]Again, new head coach, new staff, new AD, heck new apparel sponsor. You want to try and sell me that we'll struggle in 2020 because that isn't enough time to build relationships, i can at least understand that even though I vehemently disagree with it. [/quote] Struggle with what? Results on the court or landing top shelf talent?

[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=355217]But respectfully, the past should have zero to do with this. [/quote]

Sorry, but the notion that the past has nothing to do with making large decisions is either absurd or its fantasy, maybe both. If you had food poisoning at a restaurant last week, how soon before you are going to go back? If you bought a car and it was a lemon, how soon before you buy that model vehicle again?

Any recruit is going to look at the staff's past to see what type of system they run, whether they win or not with it, what their track record is developing players for pro careers, and whether or not they live up to the promises they make. They are going to consider the school in much the same way. After all, "What's past is prologue."[/quote]

I appreciate you responding to each of my points one at a time. It's just that none of your responses make sense. When I apply for a job, you put your past job experience on your resume because you are being evaluated on your past performance. When you get food poisoning at a restaurant, you don't go back out of fear that the restaurant will order food from the same supplier or the same chef will undercook your meal again. In our recruiting situation for 2020, there is nothing that should tie this staff to the past. It is a completely new coaching staff, with a different system, a new AD, new players and so on. Basically the only thing that is the same is the court and the logo. Are you saying players should be concerned that we may not win because of the court that we play on or the jerseys that we wear?[/quote]

Yes, Sorry you missed the point because you were so close to it. I'll try again.

The thing that remains the same is THE SCHOOL. It's still run by the same people. It still has the same (poor) reputation today that it did 4 days, 4 weeks, 4 months and 4 years ago.

To mix metaphors, yes we have changed out the chef, so in theory the food poisoning issue should be in the past and not an issue going forward. But we still have the same owner ship and the same name branded on the building.
If we actually were a restaurant, we could fire the staff, change the name, change the decor and buy food from new suppliers. Basically we could start over from scratch, reinvent ourselves and build a new brand.

Unfortunately, as a university, we don't have that luxury. The new coach has to deal with all the baggage the school has accumulated over the years. Sure he can clean house and change things around for the future, but that doesn't happen overnight just because you hire new staff and change uniforms, or just because some fans demand it happen right away.

CMA is a BRAND based on his career and his accomplishments. STJ is a BRAND also, and sadly its not at the same level as our new HC's brand. At least not yet. CMA can clearly sell his brand. His successful career is proof of that.

But can he sell our brand? Maybe, but nobody else has been able too for the last two decades. Not consistently anyway. I think its patently unfair to EXPECT a new coach to be able to sell a brand as poor as ours currently is before he's even coached a game here.[/quote]

That's fair, understand your point. I am still of the opinion that this is a large part of the job they are paid (well) to do despite the challenges, but you make a compelling argument.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top