Duke Game Thread

[fun]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

 

[salty dog]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

Reminds me of an Robert Klein. He could have been a Doctor only two things held him back.
Reading and comprehension.

 

[Class of 72]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

Not a very good analogy

Both ancient history

'

NYU is a D3 team. We are playing in the Big East, were ranked #15 at one point this year and will hopefully make the tournament and maybe even win a few games. We are one good coach away from being a consistently relevant (as opposed to occasionally relevant )team. NYU has no chance of being relevant again. If you can't see that there's a HUGE difference in the 2 programs, then there's nothing I'm going to say to you that's going to convince you otherwise.

The last time that NYU beat St. John's was 1966 as the Violet (with two future NBA players, Stan McKenzie and Mal Graham) went on to lose in the NIT finals to BYU. The party after the victory attended by much of the team was at my apartment on E.119th en el barrio You go through fuchsia on the way from violet to red.

Was it after the party Lou Rossini banned you from future NYU games? Funny I was accepted to NYU in 67 but would not have gotten in today.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

Possibly, just feel like the combo of Jakarr and Sanchez killed team chemistry. Maybe Jakarr without Sanchez and having one more year of maturity would have made a difference.

 

[beast of the east]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

Beast you know my problem with his recruiting is that he left no margin for error. I've said it countless times that IMO if he supplemented the roster with some 2nd tier talent, not walk-ons and guys who are clearly not Big East level talent, then we wouldn't be in this position. The nucleus is here for a team that could have made a deep run this year, Im frustrated as hell that barring a miracle run that's not likely in the cards.

But what you are saying that within 4 years he loaded the roster with top ten talent, but some left early. So for the mere fact that they chose not to stay, you would get rid of him, despite having recruited as well as any coach since Carnesecca.

 

[JackofVirginia]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

You really believe that? Haven't seen ADR play but extremely difficult to believe JDR is better.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

Beast you know my problem with his recruiting is that he left no margin for error. I've said it countless times that IMO if he supplemented the roster with some 2nd tier talent, not walk-ons and guys who are clearly not Big East level talent, then we wouldn't be in this position. The nucleus is here for a team that could have made a deep run this year, Im frustrated as hell that barring a miracle run that's not likely in the cards.

But what you are saying that within 4 years he loaded the roster with top ten talent, but some left early. So for the mere fact that they chose not to stay, you would get rid of him, despite having recruited as well as any coach since Carnesecca.

IMO FF recruited better. That aside, while you know I'm not a fan, and while I don't think now or at the end of the year is the time to give him an extension, I have not said that we should get rid of him. Please don't put words in my mouth. IMO he should be brought back next year and evaluated over his full body of work as he nears the end of his contract. Regardless of what happens this year.

 

[Class of 72]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

Possibly, just feel like the combo of Jakarr and Sanchez killed team chemistry. Maybe Jakarr without Sanchez and having one more year of maturity would have made a difference.

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price. If the NBA lowered the signing age to 18 the Jakarr Sampson's, Jahlil Okafor's would declare right out of high school and the college game would go back to being "college" basketball rather than a developmental league for the NBA.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

You really believe that? Haven't seen ADR play but extremely difficult to believe JDR is better.

I have, multiple times. JDR is in significantly better shape than ADR, that's not even open to debate. As such, IMO he is giving us at least as much as ADR would give if he were active. I suspect that's why the staff has not pushed to have him active.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

Possibly, just feel like the combo of Jakarr and Sanchez killed team chemistry. Maybe Jakarr without Sanchez and having one more year of maturity would have made a difference.

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price. If the NBA lowered the signing age to 18 the Jakarr Sampson's, Jahlil Okafor's would declare right out of high school and the college game would go back to being "college" basketball rather than a developmental league for the NBA.

As much as it pains me to say this, I couldn't agree more

 

[fun]

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price.

We didn't lose five games in a row last January because Sampson wasn't a team player. We lost five in a row because Tesla was picking his starters by throwing darts at a dart board. That's where the bid went.

 

[monte]

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price.

We didn't lose five games in a row last January because Sampson wasn't a team player. We lost five in a row because Tesla was picking his starters by throwing darts at a dart board. That's where the bid went.

Not defending him by any stretch of the imagination, but he was looking to find the right combination which he promised he would find by "February". The season ended while we all waited for Godot.

 

[Class of 72]

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price.

We didn't lose five games in a row last January because Sampson wasn't a team player. We lost five in a row because Tesla was picking his starters by throwing darts at a dart board. That's where the bid went.

What you say is true but the flow of the offense suffered while he was auditioning for the NBA. Last year we had too many players and this year too few for the wizard to manage. Chemistry was definitely an issue if I recall. Obekpa was a horror. D'lo and Phil had some terrible shooting games with the embarrassing performance in the NIT the low point where neither could shoot better than 25% and Obekpa played like he did not want to be there. Rysheed did not even suit up because he copped out with a sore throat.

 

[fun]

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price.

We didn't lose five games in a row last January because Sampson wasn't a team player. We lost five in a row because Tesla was picking his starters by throwing darts at a dart board. That's where the bid went.

Not defending him by any stretch of the imagination, but he was looking to find the right combination which he promised he would find by "February". The season ended while we all waited for Godot.

What he was doing was designed to give the impression that he was experimenting - against a bunch of teams in the top part of the conference he was going to lose anyway- so that when he reached the winnable games - against the bottom half of the conference - he looked like a genyious. When he's not busy creating disaster for himself he's carefully preparing excuses for failing. Try and convince me otherwise. You can't. Notice that this year, when the schedule is front loaded with palookas, we don't hear any of that February stuff.

 

[logen]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

So you're saying if if you take away the times he shot well, he shot poorly. Huh.....

 

[fun]

Very big difference but Jakarr was not a "team" player last year and it cost us an NCAA invite and Lavin is paying the price.

We didn't lose five games in a row last January because Sampson wasn't a team player. We lost five in a row because Tesla was picking his starters by throwing darts at a dart board. That's where the bid went.

What you say is true but the flow of the offense suffered while he was auditioning for the NBA. Last year we had too many players and this year too few for the wizard to manage. Chemistry was definitely an issue if I recall. Obekpa was a horror. D'lo and Phil had some terrible shooting games with the embarrassing performance in the NIT the low point where neither could shoot better than 25% and Obekpa played like he did not want to be there. Rysheed did not even suit up because he copped out with a sore throat.

Chemistry may have been an issue but Sampson wasn't the only chemical and he certainly wasn't the chemist. They were 11-3 after the first 5 losses. He played the same minutes the same way in the first 5 losses as he did in the next 11 wins. Scapegoating him is silly and all that addition by subtraction nonsense is just that: nonsense. This team is Sampson away from being dangerous.

 

[fun]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

Had Sampson returned and put up his usual numbers this would be a top 10 team. I don't care about his alleged attitude. The shots Sampson made last year at a 50 percent clip are being missed by Greene at a 60 percent clip.

Interesting stat: take way three games where Greene shot 13 for 26 from 3 and in the other 16 he's shooting 20 percent (17 of 64). He makes Avery Patterson look like Reggie Miller.

So you're saying if if you take away the times he shot well, he shot poorly. Huh.....

No, I'm saying he shoots poorly 85 percent of the time. Try reading for comprehension, it's not only fun but you might learn something.

 

[beast of the east]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

Beast you know my problem with his recruiting is that he left no margin for error. I've said it countless times that IMO if he supplemented the roster with some 2nd tier talent, not walk-ons and guys who are clearly not Big East level talent, then we wouldn't be in this position. The nucleus is here for a team that could have made a deep run this year, Im frustrated as hell that barring a miracle run that's not likely in the cards.

But what you are saying that within 4 years he loaded the roster with top ten talent, but some left early. So for the mere fact that they chose not to stay, you would get rid of him, despite having recruited as well as any coach since Carnesecca.

IMO FF recruited better. That aside, while you know I'm not a fan, and while I don't think now or at the end of the year is the time to give him an extension, I have not said that we should get rid of him. Please don't put words in my mouth. IMO he should be brought back next year and evaluated over his full body of work as he nears the end of his contract. Regardless of what happens this year.

Sorry about that in terms of suggesting you want Lavin gone. I don't have the energy after shocelling this AM and working all day to research FF recruitment, but I admit he did well in a very short time. Bootsy was a surprise, so was Grant (your 3 star theory). Artest was 4 star, and who else did he get - Cook? (4 star). Still doesn't compare to Lavin's Jordan, Pointer, Obekpa, Harkless, Sampson, Harrison and Max Hooper in quantity

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

Beast you know my problem with his recruiting is that he left no margin for error. I've said it countless times that IMO if he supplemented the roster with some 2nd tier talent, not walk-ons and guys who are clearly not Big East level talent, then we wouldn't be in this position. The nucleus is here for a team that could have made a deep run this year, Im frustrated as hell that barring a miracle run that's not likely in the cards.

But what you are saying that within 4 years he loaded the roster with top ten talent, but some left early. So for the mere fact that they chose not to stay, you would get rid of him, despite having recruited as well as any coach since Carnesecca.

IMO FF recruited better. That aside, while you know I'm not a fan, and while I don't think now or at the end of the year is the time to give him an extension, I have not said that we should get rid of him. Please don't put words in my mouth. IMO he should be brought back next year and evaluated over his full body of work as he nears the end of his contract. Regardless of what happens this year.

Sorry about that in terms of suggesting you want Lavin gone. I don't have the energy after shocelling this AM and working all day to research FF recruitment, but I admit he did well in a very short time. Bootsy was a surprise, so was Grant (your 3 star theory). Artest was 4 star, and who else did he get - Cook? (4 star). Still doesn't compare to Lavin's Jordan, Pointer, Obekpa, Harkless, Sampson, Harrison and Max Hooper in quantity

Off the top of my head:
Barcklay
Felton
Crooks
Glover
Jessie

Pretty sure they were all 4 star except maybe Jesse, but all were top 100.. Probably missing a few. Hope your back is OK

 

[ghostzapper]

Beast of the East Wrote:
Sorry about that in terms of suggesting you want Lavin gone. I don't have the energy after shocelling this AM and working all day to research FF recruitment, but I admit he did well in a very short time. Bootsy was a surprise, so was Grant (your 3 star theory). Artest was 4 star, and who else did he get - Cook? (4 star). Still doesn't compare to Lavin's Jordan, Pointer, Obekpa, Harkless, Sampson, Harrison and Max Hooper in quantity

FYI Fran Fraschilla clearly brought in the best group of players that has been brought in the post Carnesecca era. He brought in Ron Artest McDonald's AA (top ten recruit), Lavor Postell top 50 recruit, Reggie Jessie Top 50 recruit, Eric Barkley McDonald's AA, Bootsy Thornton JC all American (first team I believe) and others like Chudney Gray three star local kid or James Felton top 50 and Shannon Crooks top 150 who both didn't stick.

In the end he wasn't around long enough to coach these players much (he recruited but never coached Thornton or Barkley at all) but Jarvis turned his recruits into an elite eight team that could have or should have made the final four. (depending on your point of view)

BTW Cook was a Jarvis recruit but was higher rated than anyone Lavin has brought in, he was a McDonald's All American. Tyrone Grant was recruited by Mahoney.