Duke Game Thread

[logen]

Maybe, just maybe, the kids who some of you are expecting to give us minutes against the likes of a Duke haven't shown anything at all in practice to warrant anything more than the few sporadic situational minutes they've been given all season. Remember when Max showed early signs that he could actually contribute at this level and many on here were wondering why he wasn't getting more PT? The answer was simple, Max could not be counted on to contribute even relatively consistently at this level because he was not a Big East caliber player. I've knocked Lavin and crew for a lot of things, but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they decide that any of our top 6 players will perform at a far higher level even while playing exhausted, then any of the other options rested.

I more or less agree with your basic assessment but what I will not give Lavin the benefit of the doubt is in recruiting so many non-BE caliber players. I assume he knew what conference we were playing in.

 

[thetux1]

Our guys are going max effort for 40 mins not sitting in a 2-3 all game like Cuse so it's incumbent to get them 2-3 mins rest ideally at about the 10 minute mark of the 2nd half so our key players are somewhat rested for the stretch run.

 

[stjohnnie75]

Tired legs indeed, short on shots they normally hit in the last 5 mins. Jones, Amar, Joey D can all play 5 or 6 mins to give Dom and CO a blow. And rotate Branch in for the guards so everyone stays fresh.

Why doesn't Coach give short blows to the starters just before a media timeout?
When you add in the T.V. break., it gives a player even more rest
A simple way to get them a much needed break while not missing a lot of action

He did do that in the second half. JDR came in for CO just before a TV TO. Probably should do it a bit more though.

 

[monte]

Maybe, just maybe, the kids who some of you are expecting to give us minutes against the likes of a Duke haven't shown anything at all in practice to warrant anything more than the few sporadic situational minutes they've been given all season. Remember when Max showed early signs that he could actually contribute at this level and many on here were wondering why he wasn't getting more PT? The answer was simple, Max could not be counted on to contribute even relatively consistently at this level because he was not a Big East caliber player. I've knocked Lavin and crew for a lot of things, but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they decide that any of our top 6 players will perform at a far higher level even while playing exhausted, then any of the other options rested.

I more or less agree with your basic assessment but what I will not give Lavin the benefit of the doubt is in recruiting so many non-BE caliber players. I assume he knew what conference we were playing in.

Trust me, neither am I giving him the benefit of the doubt on that. Just didn't bring it up because it's been discussed ad nauseam. . Any idea what happened to Henderson? Is he being red-shirted? Don't think he's played a minute this year. Another kid who many were touting as "not a typical walk-on".

 

[ZanMan]

Tired legs indeed, short on shots they normally hit in the last 5 mins. Jones, Amar, Joey D can all play 5 or 6 mins to give Dom and CO a blow. And rotate Branch in for the guards so everyone stays fresh.

Totally agree. Nobody is saying give these guys significant minutes, but they can be used to keep our guys fresh.

Fatigue is clearly a big problem at the end of many of our games. Our staters give it their all from tipoff to the end and simply run out of gas before the final buzzer.

Do they make dumb mistakes well before that? Yes. But that is a whole different issue. We are trying to get to March with what we have. It's going to be tough if these guys are exhausted in the closing minutes of Big East battles each night.

 

[logen]

Maybe, just maybe, the kids who some of you are expecting to give us minutes against the likes of a Duke haven't shown anything at all in practice to warrant anything more than the few sporadic situational minutes they've been given all season. Remember when Max showed early signs that he could actually contribute at this level and many on here were wondering why he wasn't getting more PT? The answer was simple, Max could not be counted on to contribute even relatively consistently at this level because he was not a Big East caliber player. I've knocked Lavin and crew for a lot of things, but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they decide that any of our top 6 players will perform at a far higher level even while playing exhausted, then any of the other options rested.

I more or less agree with your basic assessment but what I will not give Lavin the benefit of the doubt is in recruiting so many non-BE caliber players. I assume he knew what conference we were playing in.

Trust me, neither am I giving him the benefit of the doubt on that. Just didn't bring it up because it's been discussed ad nauseam. . Any idea what happened to Henderson? Is he being red-shirted? Don't think he's played a minute this year. Another kid who many were touting as "not a typical walk-on".

Have to agree with the ad nauseum comment and confess I am in the front of that line. I wrote last year I thiught we had the core talent to compete for a national championship and this year has kind of confirmed it; but we didn't fill any of the obvious roster holes. And to me, especially in the relation to the seniors on this team, is inexcusable.

 

[monte]

FWIW we are currently tied for 20th in the nation in least amount of TOs per game:http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/217

Against Duke we had 9 TOs, Duke had 16.

 

[monte]

Maybe, just maybe, the kids who some of you are expecting to give us minutes against the likes of a Duke haven't shown anything at all in practice to warrant anything more than the few sporadic situational minutes they've been given all season. Remember when Max showed early signs that he could actually contribute at this level and many on here were wondering why he wasn't getting more PT? The answer was simple, Max could not be counted on to contribute even relatively consistently at this level because he was not a Big East caliber player. I've knocked Lavin and crew for a lot of things, but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they decide that any of our top 6 players will perform at a far higher level even while playing exhausted, then any of the other options rested.

I more or less agree with your basic assessment but what I will not give Lavin the benefit of the doubt is in recruiting so many non-BE caliber players. I assume he knew what conference we were playing in.

Trust me, neither am I giving him the benefit of the doubt on that. Just didn't bring it up because it's been discussed ad nauseam. . Any idea what happened to Henderson? Is he being red-shirted? Don't think he's played a minute this year. Another kid who many were touting as "not a typical walk-on".

Have to agree with the ad nauseum comment and confess I am in the front of that line. I wrote last year I thiught we had the core talent to compete for a national championship and this year has kind of confirmed it; but we didn't fill any of the obvious roster holes. And to me, especially in the relation to the seniors on this team, is inexcusable.

It all reverts back to our argument about our lack of recruiting 2nd tier talent who will provide bench depth and roster stability from year to year. And I'm at the forefront of discussing that ad nauseam

 

[Amaseinyourface]

FWIW we are currently tied for 20th in the nation in least amount of TOs per game:http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/217

Against Duke we had 9 TOs, Duke had 16.

Love rysheed but;

Jordan turnovers per game= 3.4
Jamal+Dlo+Phil TO per game = 3.7

That's crazy. 3 senior guards who together average 93 minutes on the court and only turn it over 3.7 times. Player development?

 

[Class of 72]

Tired legs indeed, short on shots they normally hit in the last 5 mins. Jones, Amar, Joey D can all play 5 or 6 mins to give Dom and CO a blow. And rotate Branch in for the guards so everyone stays fresh.

Why doesn't Coach give short blows to the starters just before a media timeout?
When you add in the T.V. break., it gives a player even more rest
A simple way to get them a much needed break while not missing a lot of action

Time and substitution management has never been a Lavin strength.

 

[fuchsia]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

Not a very good analogy

Both ancient history

'

NYU is a D3 team. We are playing in the Big East, were ranked #15 at one point this year and will hopefully make the tournament and maybe even win a few games. We are one good coach away from being a consistently relevant (as opposed to occasionally relevant )team. NYU has no chance of being relevant again. If you can't see that there's a HUGE difference in the 2 programs, then there's nothing I'm going to say to you that's going to convince you otherwise.

The last time that NYU beat St. John's was 1966 as the Violet (with two future NBA players, Stan McKenzie and Mal Graham) went on to lose in the NIT finals to BYU. The party after the victory attended by much of the team was at my apartment on E.119th en el barrio You go through fuchsia on the way from violet to red.

 

[frank61]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

 

[beast of the east]

On the substitution note, I am REALLY confident that against Creighton you will see a more liberal substitution pattern than Lavin used vs. Duke. With a bevy of all-americans, Lavin didn't want to use the B team unless circumstances (foul injury or ejection) absolutely dictated it. It almost worked until we reverted to the 2013 nobody-can-make-a-shot team.

 

[fan5577]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

 

[paultzman]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Critical loss for sure.

 

[beast of the east]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

\

I would have liked to see this team play with a guy the size of Keith Thomas added into the mix on the front line. That size and strength was a big loss.

Had Samson stayed another year-provided he bought in to the program-or had Thomas been eligible and lived up to advanced billing, this would have been a top 10 team IMO. I'm excluding ADR because IMO he wouldn't have given us anything more than JDR is giving us, and maybe less.

 

[monte]

Certainly fatigue plays into our problems, but two items that stick out to me is we can't shoot, and we can't rebound.

And those 2 together make for a poor mix. You can get away with shooting a lower percentage if you rebound on the offensive end and limit opportunities for the other guy. Sometimes it amazes me that we compete as well as we do. It's a sign that the team was poorly constructed yet plays hard. Plus they are very athletic, which keeps them in games.

We compete because the team has D'Lo, a ton of athleticism and a ton of heart. With one or two other functional parts, this team would have been as good as almost any team in the country except for Kentucky.

So are you saying that Lavin ALMOST did a great job recruiting? You are putting this squad one or two players short of super elite. I guess it depends who those serviceable players are. Maybe Mo Harkless and Jakarr Sampson?

Beast you know my problem with his recruiting is that he left no margin for error. I've said it countless times that IMO if he supplemented the roster with some 2nd tier talent, not walk-ons and guys who are clearly not Big East level talent, then we wouldn't be in this position. The nucleus is here for a team that could have made a deep run this year, Im frustrated as hell that barring a miracle run that's not likely in the cards.