Duke Game Thread

[fan5577]

not overly encouraged by this game?
wow, you've set the bar quite high.
I was ready to turn it off when they got down 11 early.
i know you're not a lavin fan but did you really expect a victory yesterday with a hurt Harrison?
haters are gonna hate.

I expected exactly what I got. An inspired effort for 30 minutes followed by a late collapse because we don't use the bench intelligently.

I also expect that to continue for the rest of the season, unless we start doing things differently.

If the NCAA goes to a 30 minute game in the next couple of weeks then we will have a great year. We have enough heart and talent to compete for 30 minutes against anybody (except Kentucky). Otherwise, we are going to continue to lose games late all year long.

*sigh*

Late collapse had nothing to do with fatigue.

Cook hit a step back 3 in Greene's grill.
Jones hit a dagger 3 off of a poor rotation by Sheed.
Obekpa missed a bunny And-1 at the rim.

Every single one of those things have happened in our past few games. Every one of them.

We spotted Dook 6 points with our 3 turnovers in transition in the 1st half and another 3 on D'Lo's shot before halftime.

We could've beat them with six players. Depth was not the issue this game.

Their core starters hit shots when they counted. Ours didn't.

I believe it is an issue. You miss those bunnies because you have no legs. You can play 6 men for a game or two but we are asking these kids to do this 3 times a week. In the Big East, playing the front lines we do, this can wear you down. I believe this is what is happening to this team. The legs start to go, you start missing shots you were making, you can jump and fight for those rebounds against a physically larger person for only so long before you wear down.
I do not see the practices, Lavin has been doing this for quite some time, you have to believe if he thought AA & JDR could compete at this level he would put them out there for 5 minutes a half to give these guys a break. We did not even try to match up when Duke went with the two big men and that's when things started to change.

 

[Ricky Smith]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

 

[monte]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

Not a very good analogy

 

[Ricky Smith]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

Not a very good analogy

Both ancient history

 

[SJUalum98]

not overly encouraged by this game?
wow, you've set the bar quite high.
I was ready to turn it off when they got down 11 early.
i know you're not a lavin fan but did you really expect a victory yesterday with a hurt Harrison?
haters are gonna hate.

I expected exactly what I got. An inspired effort for 30 minutes followed by a late collapse because we don't use the bench intelligently.

I also expect that to continue for the rest of the season, unless we start doing things differently.

If the NCAA goes to a 30 minute game in the next couple of weeks then we will have a great year. We have enough heart and talent to compete for 30 minutes against anybody (except Kentucky). Otherwise, we are going to continue to lose games late all year long.

*sigh*

Late collapse had nothing to do with fatigue.

Cook hit a step back 3 in Greene's grill.
Jones hit a dagger 3 off of a poor rotation by Sheed.
Obekpa missed a bunny And-1 at the rim.

Every single one of those things have happened in our past few games. Every one of them.

We spotted Dook 6 points with our 3 turnovers in transition in the 1st half and another 3 on D'Lo's shot before halftime.

We could've beat them with six players. Depth was not the issue this game.

Their core starters hit shots when they counted. Ours didn't.

I believe it is an issue. You miss those bunnies because you have no legs. You can play 6 men for a game or two but we are asking these kids to do this 3 times a week. In the Big East, playing the front lines we do, this can wear you down. I believe this is what is happening to this team. The legs start to go, you start missing shots you were making, you can jump and fight for those rebounds against a physically larger person for only so long before you wear down.
I do not see the practices, Lavin has been doing this for quite some time, you have to believe if he thought AA & JDR could compete at this level he would put them out there for 5 minutes a half to give these guys a break. We did not even try to match up when Duke went with the two big men and that's when things started to change.

CO has missed gimmes in the past 2 games IIRC.

He is an awkward finisher around the rim. And rebounds tend to bounce straight off his hands out of bounds.

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Do I think he should've played Amar? Yes.

Do I think Amar, JDR, Balamou, Branch or Stewart wouldve decided the game for us? Absolutely not.

 

[fun]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

 

[JackofVirginia]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Coach K's quote after the game: "This is a magical place and we beat a really good team and a storied program which I have respected ever since I was a player at Army - 45 years, well 48,49 years ago.Their program has stood the test of time and so has ours. So to win in this setting against a storied program makes it a little better.
Class act.

 

[redfan259999888]

It is easy to play MMQB, but I would like to have seen Stewart get some minutes towards the end yesterday when they went on their run.

Where was Amar? not say that he would have been the difference or anything.
But just to give him some minutes.

 

[redfan259999888]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

His exact words: "We were getting our butts kicked for much of the game"

Doesn't exactly mean much when we can't get the win.

 

[JackofVirginia]

It is easy to play MMQB, but I would like to have seen Stewart get some minutes towards the end yesterday when they went on their run.

Where was Amar? not say that he would have been the difference or anything.
But just to give him some minutes.

Especially when coach K put Plumlee in the game. Amar boxes out and rebounds whenever he is called upon. Why the hell did Lavin recruit Jones, Balamou and Amar if he wasn't going to use them. And please don't tell me they perform badly at practice, already know that they are not good.

 

[redfan259999888]

It is easy to play MMQB, but I would like to have seen Stewart get some minutes towards the end yesterday when they went on their run.

Where was Amar? not say that he would have been the difference or anything.
But just to give him some minutes.

Especially when coach K put Plumlee in the game. Amar boxes out and rebounds whenever he is called upon. Why the hell did Lavin recruit Jones, Balamou and Amar if he wasn't going to use them. And please don't tell me they perform badly at practice, already know that they are not good.

Ask Lavin that question, he's the only one that know.

 

[SJUalum98]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

He dug himself a hole by skipping the '14 class which is why he cannot turn to this current bench. That and Rico doing a piss poor job in player development and we're stuck with stretching 6 players to their limits.

Of course if he had the best JUCO rebounder eligible, he'd use him. Or if ADR could clog up space in the paint, he'd get some burn.

But just throwing 2 red shirts, a walkon or anyone for what it matters out there against a Top 5 team wasn't going to change a thing yesterday.

Get on Lavin all you want about the '14 recruiting cycle. I'm right there with you. And I believe that will ultimately be his downfall.

But trying to somehow equate a loss vs Dook with playing time is weak. Nova game, yeah. But not yesterday.

Jones, Okafor and Cook played the same amount of minutes but just hit the shots we didn't.

Do you think Dom missed a dunk at the rim because he was tired? What about the blown alleyoop?

 

[monte]

Not sure it was mentioned but I just heard a snippet of coach K after the game. Believe it or not the guy had a lot of nice things to say. Something along the lines of, we beat a really good team today. And to get this milestone against such a storied program that I respect is special.

Got to love those moral victories

Not a moral victory but you can interpret things any way you like. A lot of people forget what this program was and it's good to see a guy like this hasn't

Nyu was good too

Not a very good analogy

Both ancient history

'

NYU is a D3 team. We are playing in the Big East, were ranked #15 at one point this year and will hopefully make the tournament and maybe even win a few games. We are one good coach away from being a consistently relevant (as opposed to occasionally relevant )team. NYU has no chance of being relevant again. If you can't see that there's a HUGE difference in the 2 programs, then there's nothing I'm going to say to you that's going to convince you otherwise.

 

[monte]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

He dug himself a hole by skipping the '14 class which is why he cannot turn to this current bench. That and Rico doing a piss poor job in player development and we're stuck with stretching 6 players to their limits.

Of course if he had the best JUCO rebounder eligible, he'd use him. Or if ADR could clog up space in the paint, he'd get some burn.

But just throwing 2 red shirts, a walkon or anyone for what it matters out there against a Top 5 team wasn't going to change a thing yesterday.

Get on Lavin all you want about the '14 recruiting cycle. I'm right there with you. And I believe that will ultimately be his downfall.

But trying to somehow equate a loss vs Dook with playing time is weak. Nova game, yeah. But not yesterday.

Jones, Okafor and Cook played the same amount of minutes but just hit the shots we didn't.

Do you think Dom missed a dunk at the rim because he was tired? What about the blown alleyoop?

Completely agree that playing anyone beyond the first 6 would have had no positive impact at all. Disagree on fatigue factor. Comparing minutes is fine, but keep in mind that with D'lo hurt, Dom and Sheed needed to carry the team. They played their hearts out and that took a huge toll on them. Duke OTOH has much more balance on their roster so no one or two players are expected to carry the load. Big difference is fatigue level as you near the end of the game. Duke also doesn't run nearly as much as we do. That too took a lot out of our kids. Duke up'd their game when it really mattered and our kids were so spent that they didn't have anything left in the tank to combat that late Duke run. Late in the game there was that one sequence were Duke got 3 or 4 offensive rebounds on one possession, and finished off the possession with an old-fashioned 3 pt play. Tired legs and fatigue result in missed shots, not getting to rebounds, sloppy play, turnovers, etc. All things that we saw in abundance in the last 8 minutes of the game.

 

[tom in salem]

on FCSP starting right now.

 

[SJUalum98]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

He dug himself a hole by skipping the '14 class which is why he cannot turn to this current bench. That and Rico doing a piss poor job in player development and we're stuck with stretching 6 players to their limits.

Of course if he had the best JUCO rebounder eligible, he'd use him. Or if ADR could clog up space in the paint, he'd get some burn.

But just throwing 2 red shirts, a walkon or anyone for what it matters out there against a Top 5 team wasn't going to change a thing yesterday.

Get on Lavin all you want about the '14 recruiting cycle. I'm right there with you. And I believe that will ultimately be his downfall.

But trying to somehow equate a loss vs Dook with playing time is weak. Nova game, yeah. But not yesterday.

Jones, Okafor and Cook played the same amount of minutes but just hit the shots we didn't.

Do you think Dom missed a dunk at the rim because he was tired? What about the blown alleyoop?

Completely agree that playing anyone beyond the first 6 would have had no positive impact at all. Disagree on fatigue factor. Comparing minutes is fine, but keep in mind that with D'lo hurt, Dom and Sheed needed to carry the team. They played their hearts out and that took a huge toll on them. Duke OTOH has much more balance on their roster so no one or two players are expected to carry the load. Big difference is fatigue level as you near the end of the game. Duke also doesn't run nearly as much as we do. That too took a lot out of our kids. Duke up'd their game when it really mattered and our kids were so spent that they didn't have anything left in the tank to combat that late Duke run. Late in the game there was that one sequence were Duke got 3 or 4 offensive rebounds on one possession, and finished off the possession with an old-fashioned 3 pt play. Tired legs and fatigue result in missed shots, not getting to rebounds, sloppy play, turnovers, etc. All things that we saw in abundance in the last 8 minutes of the game.

You also saw an abundance of turnovers and sloppy play in the first half. Want to chalk that up to fatigue too?

Dook hit big shots in big situations.

Fatigue is a cop out.

We were basically run off the court against Nova in the final minutes. We were right there against Dook in the last possessions. There is a difference.

 

[fun]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

He dug himself a hole by skipping the '14 class which is why he cannot turn to this current bench. That and Rico doing a piss poor job in player development and we're stuck with stretching 6 players to their limits.

Of course if he had the best JUCO rebounder eligible, he'd use him. Or if ADR could clog up space in the paint, he'd get some burn.

But just throwing 2 red shirts, a walkon or anyone for what it matters out there against a Top 5 team wasn't going to change a thing yesterday.

Get on Lavin all you want about the '14 recruiting cycle. I'm right there with you. And I believe that will ultimately be his downfall.

But trying to somehow equate a loss vs Dook with playing time is weak. Nova game, yeah. But not yesterday.

Jones, Okafor and Cook played the same amount of minutes but just hit the shots we didn't.

Do you think Dom missed a dunk at the rim because he was tired? What about the blown alleyoop?

I wouldn't blame the DooK loss on fatigue specifically. I gave SJ no shot and am surprised it was as close as it was for as long as it was. But there have been a string of second half collapses. It seems unlikely that that's coincidence: that our talented players who execute in the first half became less skilled at halftime. It suggests either fatigue or that every coach we face is outcoaching Lavin in the second half - that they are making half time adjustments that bewilder our braintrust. Except I haven't seen any adjustments, not really. Even against Dwek where Plumlee turned the game around, he only got in because that other guy was in foul trouble. I suppose it could be that are guys are just losers and choke artists. Although many of them have had successful careers elsewhere. Whichever explanation is correct, it does not bode well.

 

[ccnobz]

Tired legs indeed, short on shots they normally hit in the last 5 mins. Jones, Amar, Joey D can all play 5 or 6 mins to give Dom and CO a blow. And rotate Branch in for the guards so everyone stays fresh.

 

[MarkRedman]

Tired legs indeed, short on shots they normally hit in the last 5 mins. Jones, Amar, Joey D can all play 5 or 6 mins to give Dom and CO a blow. And rotate Branch in for the guards so everyone stays fresh.

Why doesn't Coach give short blows to the starters just before a media timeout?
When you add in the T.V. break., it gives a player even more rest
A simple way to get them a much needed break while not missing a lot of action

 

[monte]

To chalk it up to fatigue is an easy way out.

Question: can you name a team sport in which the coach does not use his bench either to keep his players legs fresh or situationally? I cannot. Players even get days off in baseball, and that's barely a sport. Neither do I think that Coach Tesla has discovered a new paradigm in which playing all of his starters all of the time confers to him some sort of advantage. Do you doubt that if you were to give Lavin three wishes he'd ask for two bench players who could give him 15 minutes each per game with tripping over themselves? (A new neon yellow dress sweat suit with the third wish obviously, his old one's looking a little ratty.)

He dug himself a hole by skipping the '14 class which is why he cannot turn to this current bench. That and Rico doing a piss poor job in player development and we're stuck with stretching 6 players to their limits.

Of course if he had the best JUCO rebounder eligible, he'd use him. Or if ADR could clog up space in the paint, he'd get some burn.

But just throwing 2 red shirts, a walkon or anyone for what it matters out there against a Top 5 team wasn't going to change a thing yesterday.

Get on Lavin all you want about the '14 recruiting cycle. I'm right there with you. And I believe that will ultimately be his downfall.

But trying to somehow equate a loss vs Dook with playing time is weak. Nova game, yeah. But not yesterday.

Jones, Okafor and Cook played the same amount of minutes but just hit the shots we didn't.

Do you think Dom missed a dunk at the rim because he was tired? What about the blown alleyoop?

Completely agree that playing anyone beyond the first 6 would have had no positive impact at all. Disagree on fatigue factor. Comparing minutes is fine, but keep in mind that with D'lo hurt, Dom and Sheed needed to carry the team. They played their hearts out and that took a huge toll on them. Duke OTOH has much more balance on their roster so no one or two players are expected to carry the load. Big difference is fatigue level as you near the end of the game. Duke also doesn't run nearly as much as we do. That too took a lot out of our kids. Duke up'd their game when it really mattered and our kids were so spent that they didn't have anything left in the tank to combat that late Duke run. Late in the game there was that one sequence were Duke got 3 or 4 offensive rebounds on one possession, and finished off the possession with an old-fashioned 3 pt play. Tired legs and fatigue result in missed shots, not getting to rebounds, sloppy play, turnovers, etc. All things that we saw in abundance in the last 8 minutes of the game.

You also saw an abundance of turnovers and sloppy play in the first half. Want to chalk that up to fatigue too?

Dook hit big shots in big situations.

Fatigue is a cop out.

We were basically run off the court against Nova in the final minutes. We were right there against Dook in the last possessions. There is a difference.

I am not saying fatigue-more specifically tired legs-is the sole reason we lost, but IMO it was certainly a factor.