We won 8 games against teams that made the NCAA tournament that year, that's how. Lot's of people thought that we still should not have gotten in.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/15/sports/redmen-s-foes-got-them-in.html
Do we still have a chance -- NCAA Tourney?
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We won 8 games against teams that made the NCAA tournament that year, that's how. Lot's of people thought that we still should not have gotten in.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/15/sports/redmen-s-foes-got-them-in.html
Last year Georgetown went 8-10 in a much weaker Big East and it turns out they were one of the first teams out. Had they beat DePaul in the tournament first round they would've made it.
I'm sure there's examples of teams with losing conference records making the tournament.
The thing is, say we go 8-10 then win two more games. We'd be well within the top 50 RPI. How often are teams like that left out, especially ones like us that would have multiple top 50 wins? Almost every year the selections mirror the RPI, with a few rare exceptions that mainly are due to poor strength of schedule.
beast of the east
Active member
8-10 would be put us 5th-7th in league (ties included). No way an 8-10 BE team gets in unless there was an amazing resume out of conference. Which we don't have. I say 9-9 doesn't get us in either because we have no cache, no brand identity. I say let's finish strong and see how it plays out.
Why do you think we'd get left out then? I'm not saying this with 100% confidence, I'd still be sweating on selection day, but under this scenario we'd have an RPI in the low 40s. The Georgetown example was just last year and that's a fact rather than opinion. Looking online, there's a lot of examples of this happening in recent years. Uconn in 2012, Georgia Tech in 2010, Arizona and Maryland in 2009, Arizona in 2008, Arkansas in 2007, unc and Iowa in 2005, etc.
Interesting? Come on. That'd put us at a RPI in the low 30's and a SoS around 12. Some of you guys are severely downplaying how good the Big East is this year. Also, our OOC isn't incredible, but it was good enough to have us ranked #15 (with an RPI around the same number, prior to the Duke loss which wouldn't hurt much).
Georgia Tech, Iowa, Arkansas all made at large bids recently with losing conference records and none of those are must see TV like Kentucky.
Okay, here's a couple challenges for those doubting the math:
1. Why do bracketologists (who know a lot more about this than anyone here) have us in today with a 3-5 Big East record? Do you really think they expect us to finish 10-8 (7-3 rest of the way)?
2. Find me a top 45 RPI team with multiple (3-4+) top 50 wins that didn't make the tournament. I haven't checked but I assume there can't be many, if any at all.
Let's not forget we're in a league where 70% of the teams are top 50, so we'll get at least a few more.
9-9 and in BET finals making it interesting? That is absurd! We'd easily be in. We are in NOW according to lunardi with a 3-5 record in the big east and losses to DePaul and Creighton, if we go 9-9 and make the finals that is easily in. Come on guys, the negativity around here is getting old so very quick.
redfan259999888
Active member
I know rpi is big in getting to the big dance.
Me, I rather play it safe. Get 9 B.E. wins, another 2 in the B.E. tournament. That gives us 22 wins and we're in. That's all I care about.
Eamonn Brennan of ESPN not high on us, apparently:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch
St. John's [14-7 (3-5), RPI: 43, SOS: 27] If you only saw well-edited sections of St. John's season, you could be easily convinced the Red Storm were among the nation's best teams. Center Chris Obekpa is a big, active shot-blocking force on the back line; D'Angelo Harrison and Phil Greene are a terrific backcourt duo; Sir'Dominic Pointer is a physical nightmare of a matchup. Early in the season, all the per-possession indicators looked positive. Now, St. John's redeeming quality -- where the bubble is concerned, anyway -- is reduced to a good schedule, a win at Syracuse, two wins over Providence and, well, that's basically it. The Red Storm have serious pieces, but those pieces only rarely come together. Unless they do, Steve Lavin's team is going to be fighting for its at-large life throughout the next six weeks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch
St. John's [14-7 (3-5), RPI: 43, SOS: 27] If you only saw well-edited sections of St. John's season, you could be easily convinced the Red Storm were among the nation's best teams. Center Chris Obekpa is a big, active shot-blocking force on the back line; D'Angelo Harrison and Phil Greene are a terrific backcourt duo; Sir'Dominic Pointer is a physical nightmare of a matchup. Early in the season, all the per-possession indicators looked positive. Now, St. John's redeeming quality -- where the bubble is concerned, anyway -- is reduced to a good schedule, a win at Syracuse, two wins over Providence and, well, that's basically it. The Red Storm have serious pieces, but those pieces only rarely come together. Unless they do, Steve Lavin's team is going to be fighting for its at-large life throughout the next six weeks.
St Mary's losing to Pepperdine hurt
Accept some folks have different opinions. It is what a message board is all about. To disagree with some of you seems to equate to negativity or hating too often. Differing in a rational manner is fine Imo. Let's win the next three and our differences may narrow.
http://holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4177&sid=e2e35ffa230b46f07b10ab28c81c896f
Blind resumes on holy land, yes we are one of them
Blind resumes on holy land, yes we are one of them
Sorry, but it comes off as negativity when you say a scenario that would add 4-5 top 30 wins to our resume would only make it interesting. Sorry if I get frustrated when I see posters acting like we are so far away from a bid when we are in the field, albeit barely, as of now according to joe lunardi. Our schedule is tough and all but IMO we have a better chance then everyone is making it sound. I come on here to discuss the team as much as I can but a few bad losses makes the board very un - enjoyable. There is good reason for some negativity, but it has gotten to be a little much, I hope a butler win will calm people down
Appreciate the response Jack. If we do go to 3-6 tonight, hopefully it would be ok to feel we have a dug a huge hole considering we still have to play GT twice, Nova, Xavier, who gives us fits, twice & no gimmes in SH & M'Q. I would not give up at 3-6, but would be kidding myself to assume we have a good chance of going 6-3 the rest of the way to get to the 9 wins some people think may do it. Btw, I don't have season tickets to see us not succeed. Beat Butler & start a little rally!
That's fine and all, I'm interested in hearing opinions on why we wouldn't make it. The reasons mainly are "we're cursed" or "we're not Kentucky we don't have the brand name".
Now the latter reason I believe would have merit if our RPI finished around 48, 49, or 50. But current models are saying RPIs lower than that, which makes a massive, massive difference.
Personally, I'd be happy to finish 9-9 with one tournament win. I'd feel very confident and would sign up for that today. I'm much more concerned about actually getting there.
I lived in Raleigh prior to going to SJU. I'm a big NC State fan and they practically have lived on the bubble last few years. I'm not saying I'm an expert but I spent quite a few hours studying this in the past. A few years ago they made it with I believe ONE (yes, one) top 50 RPI win.
And hey, we're all on the same team. We all (well, nearly everyone) wants to make the tournament. So this line of reasoning should be looked at as a good thing to doubters.
Of course, the team should look at each game as an absolute must win. But we're not on the team.