I still think this is a better and deeper team than last year. Remember, while LJ was great, Heron missed almost all of conference play. there are growing pains this year for sure, particularly with two freshman guards and two JUCO transfers on which much is depending. If Cole can gain some consistency and Moore plays to his strengths and role, they should win more BE games than last year. Creighton and SH exploited the Johnnies lack of size that has existed for years, well before CMA. He is not a retread. In fact, I think he got a lot out of his flawed roster last year. Let's see if the Texas Tech transfer Nyiwe is eligible and can contribute something this year. Otherwise, our best option is to support this team and staff, and not blow it up again.
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I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.
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MakingPlays
Well-known member
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409394]I try to be consistent. Before he ever coached a game here I posted that clients and coworkers in arkansas and missouri were in agreement: very good coach, not a great recruiter.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.[/quote]
First off good post. However I wanted to correct something.
Those guys you said you talked to that said he's not a good recruiter don't have their facts straight because CMA's last 2 classes at Arkansas were top 25 classes per espn, 3 of those players from those classes are now on NBA rosters, with 2 of them getting drafted. He also had another top 25 class in 2013 at Arkansas. And he had top 25 classes at Mizzou, with 3 players that were drafted. In total he has 7 of his recruits being drafted into the NBA and 12 total of his recruits making NBA rosters through his time at Mizzou/Arkansas. Being unbiased that's not bad recruiting over 13 years.
Now I will say his recruiting thus far at St.John's has been underwhelming, however you to realize he's only in his 2nd year with the program, he's in a completely new area outside of his typical recruiting pipeline in the South, and there's a pandemic going on preventing coaches getting on the road and recruiting, so naturally the recruiting is going to take a bit of a hit, but everything in his history leads that he will get good players here and he will have success, he's done that for 18 years. And I'm not trying to make excuses for CMA, cause honestly the team should be playing better at this point, the Georgetown meltdown was on the coach. But one thing that bothers me is people that make up their own facts when things don't go their way, and trying to say he's not a good recruiter is just factually incorrect.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.[/quote]
First off good post. However I wanted to correct something.
Those guys you said you talked to that said he's not a good recruiter don't have their facts straight because CMA's last 2 classes at Arkansas were top 25 classes per espn, 3 of those players from those classes are now on NBA rosters, with 2 of them getting drafted. He also had another top 25 class in 2013 at Arkansas. And he had top 25 classes at Mizzou, with 3 players that were drafted. In total he has 7 of his recruits being drafted into the NBA and 12 total of his recruits making NBA rosters through his time at Mizzou/Arkansas. Being unbiased that's not bad recruiting over 13 years.
Now I will say his recruiting thus far at St.John's has been underwhelming, however you to realize he's only in his 2nd year with the program, he's in a completely new area outside of his typical recruiting pipeline in the South, and there's a pandemic going on preventing coaches getting on the road and recruiting, so naturally the recruiting is going to take a bit of a hit, but everything in his history leads that he will get good players here and he will have success, he's done that for 18 years. And I'm not trying to make excuses for CMA, cause honestly the team should be playing better at this point, the Georgetown meltdown was on the coach. But one thing that bothers me is people that make up their own facts when things don't go their way, and trying to say he's not a good recruiter is just factually incorrect.
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beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409397]There is a huge drop off defensively at the 3 from LJ to any one of Williams, Dunn, or Cole. Covered so much ground and aside from the 2+ steals he disrupted the passing lanes better than anyone we have. It’s our defense that has took the biggest bit this year and to think how little he was appreciated on that end baffles me.[/quote]
I posted something about LJ at the end of the game on that game thread. TBH, your post is dead on, but when he was being called Robin, or a great 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on a good team, no one defended that concept. To date, we've been expecting more offensive firepower and balance, and we haven't gotten either.
Not only is LJ's defense missed, but SO FAR it doesn't appear that we have a consistent scorer in a halfcourt offense. Although LJ launched (and made) a lot of threes from far away, and his drives to the basket often ended with 12 foot finger rolls or floaters, we are getting the sense that we'd have been far better off with him than without. I'm sure coach and staff feel the same way.
There is still plenty of time for this team to improve and start playing inspired basketball. I'm not cashing my chips or anywhere close to it just yet. The defensive lapses are noticeable, and if the half court defense it seems we are always chasing someone who is wide open who then passes to someone even more wide open for an open jumper or layup.
I really don't care where someone played HS or AAU ball. At this level, every single player was a HS star, but here the bigs are bigger, the guards are quicker, and everyone is just better. Most new players need a burn in period. Let's give them a chance before shredding their talent and effort. It's just not fair.
I posted something about LJ at the end of the game on that game thread. TBH, your post is dead on, but when he was being called Robin, or a great 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on a good team, no one defended that concept. To date, we've been expecting more offensive firepower and balance, and we haven't gotten either.
Not only is LJ's defense missed, but SO FAR it doesn't appear that we have a consistent scorer in a halfcourt offense. Although LJ launched (and made) a lot of threes from far away, and his drives to the basket often ended with 12 foot finger rolls or floaters, we are getting the sense that we'd have been far better off with him than without. I'm sure coach and staff feel the same way.
There is still plenty of time for this team to improve and start playing inspired basketball. I'm not cashing my chips or anywhere close to it just yet. The defensive lapses are noticeable, and if the half court defense it seems we are always chasing someone who is wide open who then passes to someone even more wide open for an open jumper or layup.
I really don't care where someone played HS or AAU ball. At this level, every single player was a HS star, but here the bigs are bigger, the guards are quicker, and everyone is just better. Most new players need a burn in period. Let's give them a chance before shredding their talent and effort. It's just not fair.
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beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Making Plays" post=409416][quote="Beast of the East" post=409394]I try to be consistent. Before he ever coached a game here I posted that clients and coworkers in arkansas and missouri were in agreement: very good coach, not a great recruiter.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.[/quote]
First off good post. However I wanted to correct something.
Those guys you said you talked to that said he's not a good recruiter don't have their facts straight because CMA's last 2 classes at Arkansas were top 25 classes per espn, 3 of those players from those classes are now on NBA rosters, with 2 of them getting drafted. He also had another top 25 class in 2013 at Arkansas. And he had top 25 classes at Mizzou, with 3 players that were drafted. In total he has 7 of his recruits being drafted into the NBA and 12 total of his recruits making NBA rosters through his time at Mizzou/Arkansas. Being unbiased that's not bad recruiting over 13 years.
Now I will say his recruiting thus far at St.John's has been underwhelming, however you to realize he's only in his 2nd year with the program, he's in a completely new area outside of his typical recruiting pipeline in the South, and there's a pandemic going on preventing coaches getting on the road and recruiting, so naturally the recruiting is going to take a bit of a hit, but everything in his history leads that he will get good players here and he will have success, he's done that for 18 years. And I'm not trying to make excuses for CMA, cause honestly the team should be playing better at this point, the Georgetown meltdown was on the coach. But one thing that bothers me is people that make up their own facts when things don't go their way, and trying to say he's not a good recruiter is just factually incorrect.[/quote]
Everything is relative I guess. I don't follow either school (Missouri or Ark), but one season ticket holder at Missouri made a sarcastic comment akin to "once he ran out of relatives to recruit it was downhill". But to be fair Missouri fans were a lot pissed when CMA bolted for the Arkansas job.
Thanks for the corrections by providing detail. Good post from you also.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.[/quote]
First off good post. However I wanted to correct something.
Those guys you said you talked to that said he's not a good recruiter don't have their facts straight because CMA's last 2 classes at Arkansas were top 25 classes per espn, 3 of those players from those classes are now on NBA rosters, with 2 of them getting drafted. He also had another top 25 class in 2013 at Arkansas. And he had top 25 classes at Mizzou, with 3 players that were drafted. In total he has 7 of his recruits being drafted into the NBA and 12 total of his recruits making NBA rosters through his time at Mizzou/Arkansas. Being unbiased that's not bad recruiting over 13 years.
Now I will say his recruiting thus far at St.John's has been underwhelming, however you to realize he's only in his 2nd year with the program, he's in a completely new area outside of his typical recruiting pipeline in the South, and there's a pandemic going on preventing coaches getting on the road and recruiting, so naturally the recruiting is going to take a bit of a hit, but everything in his history leads that he will get good players here and he will have success, he's done that for 18 years. And I'm not trying to make excuses for CMA, cause honestly the team should be playing better at this point, the Georgetown meltdown was on the coach. But one thing that bothers me is people that make up their own facts when things don't go their way, and trying to say he's not a good recruiter is just factually incorrect.[/quote]
Everything is relative I guess. I don't follow either school (Missouri or Ark), but one season ticket holder at Missouri made a sarcastic comment akin to "once he ran out of relatives to recruit it was downhill". But to be fair Missouri fans were a lot pissed when CMA bolted for the Arkansas job.
Thanks for the corrections by providing detail. Good post from you also.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409419][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409397]There is a huge drop off defensively at the 3 from LJ to any one of Williams, Dunn, or Cole. Covered so much ground and aside from the 2+ steals he disrupted the passing lanes better than anyone we have. It’s our defense that has took the biggest bit this year and to think how little he was appreciated on that end baffles me.[/quote]
I posted something about LJ at the end of the game on that game thread. TBH, your post is dead on, but when he was being called Robin, or a great 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on a good team, no one defended that concept. To date, we've been expecting more offensive firepower and balance, and we haven't gotten either.
Not only is LJ's defense missed, but SO FAR it doesn't appear that we have a consistent scorer in a halfcourt offense. Although LJ launched (and made) a lot of threes from far away, and his drives to the basket often ended with 12 foot finger rolls or floaters, we are getting the sense that we'd have been far better off with him than without. I'm sure coach and staff feel the same way.
There is still plenty of time for this team to improve and start playing inspired basketball. I'm not cashing my chips or anywhere close to it just yet. The defensive lapses are noticeable, and if the half court defense it seems we are always chasing someone who is wide open who then passes to someone even more wide open for an open jumper or layup.
I really don't care where someone played HS or AAU ball. At this level, every single player was a HS star, but here the bigs are bigger, the guards are quicker, and everyone is just better. Most new players need a burn in period. Let's give them a chance before shredding their talent and effort. It's just not fair.[/quote]
Good post and I’ll also add, for all the gruff LJ got for his shot selection ( and a lot of the times rightfully so) he was going to break our all time single season three pointer record if the season wasn’t ended abruptly. And he did it at a more than acceptable percentage. Everyone thinks about what we don’t have, not realizing what we do have. Or did.
I posted something about LJ at the end of the game on that game thread. TBH, your post is dead on, but when he was being called Robin, or a great 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on a good team, no one defended that concept. To date, we've been expecting more offensive firepower and balance, and we haven't gotten either.
Not only is LJ's defense missed, but SO FAR it doesn't appear that we have a consistent scorer in a halfcourt offense. Although LJ launched (and made) a lot of threes from far away, and his drives to the basket often ended with 12 foot finger rolls or floaters, we are getting the sense that we'd have been far better off with him than without. I'm sure coach and staff feel the same way.
There is still plenty of time for this team to improve and start playing inspired basketball. I'm not cashing my chips or anywhere close to it just yet. The defensive lapses are noticeable, and if the half court defense it seems we are always chasing someone who is wide open who then passes to someone even more wide open for an open jumper or layup.
I really don't care where someone played HS or AAU ball. At this level, every single player was a HS star, but here the bigs are bigger, the guards are quicker, and everyone is just better. Most new players need a burn in period. Let's give them a chance before shredding their talent and effort. It's just not fair.[/quote]
Good post and I’ll also add, for all the gruff LJ got for his shot selection ( and a lot of the times rightfully so) he was going to break our all time single season three pointer record if the season wasn’t ended abruptly. And he did it at a more than acceptable percentage. Everyone thinks about what we don’t have, not realizing what we do have. Or did.
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[quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.
Im expecting the typical Anderson improvement during the year. It’s far from over. Myself included we had some unrealistic Expectations this year. We’re young but I think we’re close. With the new transfer rule and addition by subtraction we will improve.
Frustration is a natural reaction bc we’ve been here all too often. Im trusting the staff and track records. However it’s time they go the transfer route. That’s the way to immediately bring in talent.
Frustration is a natural reaction bc we’ve been here all too often. Im trusting the staff and track records. However it’s time they go the transfer route. That’s the way to immediately bring in talent.
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.
CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.
[quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
The results, while hard to see, are 5 wins in games we were favored and 4 loses in games we were not. Of course that’s all based on the team we have and games are won on the court.
But I don’t see the lack of optimism in terms of the team he’s gonna be able to build here. He’s got a sophomore scoring 20 points and 2 freshmen who look like absolute keepers. If you’re ready to give up on the 5 juniors we have outside of that group then we just disagree.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
The results, while hard to see, are 5 wins in games we were favored and 4 loses in games we were not. Of course that’s all based on the team we have and games are won on the court.
But I don’t see the lack of optimism in terms of the team he’s gonna be able to build here. He’s got a sophomore scoring 20 points and 2 freshmen who look like absolute keepers. If you’re ready to give up on the 5 juniors we have outside of that group then we just disagree.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409428][quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]
Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:
2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514
Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:
2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409430][quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
The results, while hard to see, are 5 wins in games we were favored and 4 loses in games we were not. Of course that’s all based on the team we have and games are won on the court.
But I don’t see the lack of optimism in terms of the team he’s gonna be able to build here. He’s got a sophomore scoring 20 points and 2 freshmen who look like absolute keepers. If you’re ready to give up on the 5 juniors we have outside of that group then we just disagree.[/quote]
That's fair, but for those 5 games we won 3 of them came down to the final seconds, and 2/3 were against mid-majors. We could be 2-7 right now.
I'm not giving up, I'll still turn on the TV and watch, but my expectations are zero until we start recruiting better or win on the court. Feels like we are turning into a DePaul but we'll all convince ourselves next year will be different.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
The results, while hard to see, are 5 wins in games we were favored and 4 loses in games we were not. Of course that’s all based on the team we have and games are won on the court.
But I don’t see the lack of optimism in terms of the team he’s gonna be able to build here. He’s got a sophomore scoring 20 points and 2 freshmen who look like absolute keepers. If you’re ready to give up on the 5 juniors we have outside of that group then we just disagree.[/quote]
That's fair, but for those 5 games we won 3 of them came down to the final seconds, and 2/3 were against mid-majors. We could be 2-7 right now.
I'm not giving up, I'll still turn on the TV and watch, but my expectations are zero until we start recruiting better or win on the court. Feels like we are turning into a DePaul but we'll all convince ourselves next year will be different.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Adam" post=409431][quote="Beast of the East" post=409428][quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb[/quote]
I'm certain they mean basketball wise, not interpersonally. Hey, just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your posts. Typically you are fair, balanced, and well informed. All of us a little down over this slow start, but I'm not as distressed as when teams Lavin had that were expected to be NCAA tourney teams flopped early. Keep your chin up!
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb[/quote]
I'm certain they mean basketball wise, not interpersonally. Hey, just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your posts. Typically you are fair, balanced, and well informed. All of us a little down over this slow start, but I'm not as distressed as when teams Lavin had that were expected to be NCAA tourney teams flopped early. Keep your chin up!
Well this thread is better than I expected it would be today.
Last night ended ugly. The team is clearly not together and there's a lot of work to be done. But (and you knew there was a "but" coming):
Our roster consists of 2 JUCOs, a transfer, a redshirt freshman, 2 freshmen, and a half-dozen guys that all played one year for this coach before this year. In a typical season, they would have had a month of practice, a scrimmage or two, and ten pre-season games to figure things out before league play. This year they had a few weeks and then a half-dozen games crammed into a few more. And, the keys have been handed to a freshman point guard.
So what you get is what you see - a group that just does not have it together. Every game there have been six or ten spots when (at least to my eye) being uncomfortable and unfamiliar with each other and with the system has resulted in a bad shot or an unforced error on offense, and it's even more apparent on the team-defense front where the assignments, switches, and rotations have to come naturally and automatically.
Despite all that, if the schedule had gone as originally planned you should have expected losses to Texas Tech (substitute BYU), Seton Hall, and Creighton. So we are basically one bad loss to Georgetown (an annual event that drives me up the wall) behind where we should probably be record-wise.
Hopefully the Creighton game will light a fire under the team (maybe the way losing at home to Marquette lit a fire under Creighton?) and a turnaround will start on Sunday with a thumping of the hated Hoyas.
This was never going to be a two-year project, let alone a one-year-and-9-games project. Let's see if the team improves as the season goes on before we start jumping to any conclusions or off any bridges.
Last night ended ugly. The team is clearly not together and there's a lot of work to be done. But (and you knew there was a "but" coming):
Our roster consists of 2 JUCOs, a transfer, a redshirt freshman, 2 freshmen, and a half-dozen guys that all played one year for this coach before this year. In a typical season, they would have had a month of practice, a scrimmage or two, and ten pre-season games to figure things out before league play. This year they had a few weeks and then a half-dozen games crammed into a few more. And, the keys have been handed to a freshman point guard.
So what you get is what you see - a group that just does not have it together. Every game there have been six or ten spots when (at least to my eye) being uncomfortable and unfamiliar with each other and with the system has resulted in a bad shot or an unforced error on offense, and it's even more apparent on the team-defense front where the assignments, switches, and rotations have to come naturally and automatically.
Despite all that, if the schedule had gone as originally planned you should have expected losses to Texas Tech (substitute BYU), Seton Hall, and Creighton. So we are basically one bad loss to Georgetown (an annual event that drives me up the wall) behind where we should probably be record-wise.
Hopefully the Creighton game will light a fire under the team (maybe the way losing at home to Marquette lit a fire under Creighton?) and a turnaround will start on Sunday with a thumping of the hated Hoyas.
This was never going to be a two-year project, let alone a one-year-and-9-games project. Let's see if the team improves as the season goes on before we start jumping to any conclusions or off any bridges.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409439][quote="Adam" post=409431][quote="Beast of the East" post=409428][quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb[/quote]
I'm certain they mean basketball wise, not interpersonally. Hey, just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your posts. Typically you are fair, balanced, and well informed. All of us a little down over this slow start, but I'm not as distressed as when teams Lavin had that were expected to be NCAA tourney teams flopped early. Keep your chin up![/quote]
Thanks for that, I don't have any insight into what's happening inside the program which is why I come here. We have a few good pieces we need to hang into to. I try not to get too frustrated but it has been frustrating for a long time now. I actually was far more upset with the Georgetown loss than this one, because at least then I still had expectations (bubble team). Now it feels like not only have expectations been lowered from the Lavin and Mullin years, but in addition to that we're not even meeting those lowered expectations. Small sample size I know, hopefully we can turn things around.
Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]
Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]
The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.
IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]
That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.
Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb[/quote]
I'm certain they mean basketball wise, not interpersonally. Hey, just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your posts. Typically you are fair, balanced, and well informed. All of us a little down over this slow start, but I'm not as distressed as when teams Lavin had that were expected to be NCAA tourney teams flopped early. Keep your chin up![/quote]
Thanks for that, I don't have any insight into what's happening inside the program which is why I come here. We have a few good pieces we need to hang into to. I try not to get too frustrated but it has been frustrating for a long time now. I actually was far more upset with the Georgetown loss than this one, because at least then I still had expectations (bubble team). Now it feels like not only have expectations been lowered from the Lavin and Mullin years, but in addition to that we're not even meeting those lowered expectations. Small sample size I know, hopefully we can turn things around.
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TheArtest15
Member
I never understood the posters on here saying we will be better off without LJ. He is by far way more talented than anyone we have on our roster right now. He was a big loss and we took him for granted. Having him as a go to guy opened up lanes to drive for Dunn and our guards last year etc. I feel bad for Champ, he has no consistent help on the offensive side of the ball and looks exhausted by the end of the game