Criticism

[quote="EliteBaller K" post=409560][quote="Monte" post=409559][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409546][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

SO that's the answer, if cma isn't the answer then no worries, there will always be someone waiting in the wings? Dude we been saying that for the last 20 years. Oh lavin is known and is a great recruiter, finally someone that knows what he's doing.
Mullin, best player in a school history, beloved by sju, he a former scout then gm. He really knows talent.
If anyone can be successful here it's the man Chris mullin.
How did those 2 workout here?

I really.pray cma is the man to do it here. I believe next year will tell alot with the amount of experience he'll have here.
If not him then we'll get someone of course, but aren't you sick of starting all over again?
The do overs to me are getting really hard to deal with.

A few more years of this you'll have to start believing that we're just like nyu, Fordham, and ccny. A once great basketball school that is a has been.
You could disagree if you want but just look at the last 20 years, can anyone tell me we done any more than those?


Dude, I have no idea what your point is. You want CMA fired now? Is that it?











.[/quote][/quote]

You made it seem like if we have to do it all over again with a new coach, then no biggie.

Maybe to you it's not.[/quote]

That's not at all what I said. And you never answered my question; do you suggest we do, fire CMA now? That's a pretty straightforward question.
 
[quote="Monte" post=409586][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409560][quote="Monte" post=409559][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409546][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

SO that's the answer, if cma isn't the answer then no worries, there will always be someone waiting in the wings? Dude we been saying that for the last 20 years. Oh lavin is known and is a great recruiter, finally someone that knows what he's doing.
Mullin, best player in a school history, beloved by sju, he a former scout then gm. He really knows talent.
If anyone can be successful here it's the man Chris mullin.
How did those 2 workout here?

I really.pray cma is the man to do it here. I believe next year will tell alot with the amount of experience he'll have here.
If not him then we'll get someone of course, but aren't you sick of starting all over again?
The do overs to me are getting really hard to deal with.

A few more years of this you'll have to start believing that we're just like nyu, Fordham, and ccny. A once great basketball school that is a has been.
You could disagree if you want but just look at the last 20 years, can anyone tell me we done any more than those?


Dude, I have no idea what your point is. You want CMA fired now? Is that it?











.[/quote][/quote]

You made it seem like if we have to do it all over again with a new coach, then no biggie.

Maybe to you it's not.[/quote]

That's not at all what I said. And you never answered my question; do you suggest we do, fire CMA now? That's a pretty straightforward question.[/quote]

If we beat Georgetown this weekend, the tone will change to a more positive one. However, should we lose....
 
No doubt Mullins tenure hurt the program. Set sju back.
Just demonstrated such a lack of interest. Very disappointing. Money grab on his part - how about hiring an experienced assistant
There was momentum with lavin
 
[quote="Phil G" post=409591]No doubt Mullins tenure hurt the program. Set sju back.
Just demonstrated such a lack of interest. Very disappointing. Money grab on his part - how about hiring an experienced assistant
There was momentum with lavin[/quote]

Bottom line if we could have had a do-over here is what I would have done in 2015:

1)Dismiss Lavin with the intent to pursue and hire Danny Hurley or
2)Give Lavin a 2 yr extension with a reasonable buyout with a commitment from him to make some staff changes and re-commit himself to recruit at a high level. The extension would be to protect against being a lame duck and if it does not work out the buyout is reasonable.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=409597][quote="Phil G" post=409591]No doubt Mullins tenure hurt the program. Set sju back.
Just demonstrated such a lack of interest. Very disappointing. Money grab on his part - how about hiring an experienced assistant
There was momentum with lavin[/quote]

Bottom line if we could have had a do-over here is what I would have done in 2015:

1)Dismiss Lavin with the intent to pursue and hire Danny Hurley or
2)Give Lavin a 2 yr extension with a reasonable buyout with a commitment from him to make some staff changes and re-commit himself to recruit at a high level. The extension would be to protect against being a lame duck and if it does not work out the buyout is reasonable.[/quote]

Lavin couldn't coach at game time
Mullin I think had family problems as his wife didnt want to move back to ny and stayed out west. I think that effected his ability to work hard
 
[quote="Phil G" post=409591]No doubt Mullins tenure hurt the program. Set sju back.
Just demonstrated such a lack of interest. Very disappointing. Money grab on his part - how about hiring an experienced assistant
There was momentum with lavin[/quote]

I don't think the Mullin era set us back. It was more just a waste of time. He left the program almost exactly the where he found it.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=409557][quote="Room112" post=409537][quote="TheArtest15" post=409529]I feel that so many of you on here are so optimistic and confident in CMA because of what Mullin was, and that is an awful coach. I was pumped for the Mullin hire at the time but after a few years realized he was so in over his head. He couldn't run a program properly and was mostly clueless.

Just because you were so tired of Mullin as a coach(which I was as well) does not mean we should be so lenient with CMA who does have a proven track record. My honest opinion is that since he has such a proven track record he should be able to recruit well and turn this program around more quickly than others. The defense and in game decisions have also bothered me as well. Look at how quickly NC state turned around with Keatts. Good coaches who have a name in the NCAA and have no losing seasons should be held to a hire standard if they are as elite as their record states.[/quote]

Don't think this has anything to do with patience or being tired of Mullin, but more so expectations being in line with reality. The reality of the situation is that we were projected to finish 9th in the Big East this year and not make the NCAA tourney. I'm not sure most even expected us to make the tournament this year. Next year was the year targeted. Yet here we are 9 games into a season where we had such low projections and you want to fire the coach. Like I said, maybe your expectations of what should be happening here are out of line with reality.[/quote]

I never once said I think we should fire the coach. I think the opposite. I think he should be given 4-5 years here to prove his worth. I am just saying that I am not happy with what hes done so far being here. Poor recruiting, poor in game decisions and rotations, one of the worst defensive teams ive seen here etc. Everyone keeps saying that they are so confident in CMA that he will right the ship here, but what has he done here to make you feel that way? I expected an improvement each year with CMA and it looks like we have regressed. And don't try to tell me now that everyone this summer didnt say "oh I think we are going to shock everyone" and "we have the deepest St. Johns team that we have ever had!". We haven't even played well in the games we've won, against garbage opponents. How is everyone still so confident? I would say more than 50% of posters on this site thought that we would be waaaaaay better than 9th in the Big East[/quote]
It is true CMA makes poor in game decisions . Remember the game last year when he held our best shooter who has since flew the coop to Oregon on the bench till the last 5 seconds then put him in the game to make the last shot? Yes brilliant move as he hadn't touched the ball for 10 minutes. He also has an alleged 3 point shooter Caraher who he keeps on the bench when we need outside shooting. It is over St John's basketball is dead. If you had a son who was highly rated as a player would you let him go to st John's? Be honest. That my friends is the problem
 
[quote="dee" post=409601][quote="fordham96" post=409597][quote="Phil G" post=409591]No doubt Mullins tenure hurt the program. Set sju back.
Just demonstrated such a lack of interest. Very disappointing. Money grab on his part - how about hiring an experienced assistant I think too, most everyone
There was momentum with lavin[/quote]

Bottom line if we could have had a do-over here is what I would have done in 2015:

1)Dismiss Lavin with the intent to pursue and hire Danny Hurley or
2)Give Lavin a 2 yr extension with a reasonable buyout with a commitment from him to make some staff changes and re-commit himself to recruit at a high level. The extension would be to protect against being a lame duck and if it does not work out the buyout is reasonable.[/quote]

Lavin couldn't coach at game time
Mullin I think had family problems as his wife didnt want to move back to ny and stayed out west. I think that effected his ability to work hard[/quote]. I think Mullin gets a little slack for his Brother Rod’s illness and his death . It would be a distraction to anyone . After that , I don’t think Chris was really interested in Coaching but , heeded Louie’s call . His Recruiting wasn’t too bad . Ponds. Simon and Clark as transfers , Williams , Earlington , Roberts . And , Figgy and Caraher . Trimble .I may have forgotten a few . Keita wasn’t good but , transferred from SCarolina .
 
[quote="dee" post=409604]He also has an alleged 3 point shooter Caraher who he keeps on the bench when we need outside shooting.[/quote]

Caraher is not a 3-point shooter. He's also too slow for this level. Heady kid, though. Much more heady than anyone who would even imply that he's a 3-point shooter or that he'd be in any way useful when we're trailing.
 
I have been on redmen.com for about ten years and have read thousands of posts blaming Lavin, Mullin and now it will start with Anderson who will probably be replaced in two years. The problem has been and will continue to be attracting players with big east talent. Both Lavin and Anderson in prior schools attracted players that could compete and were successful but lost it at SJU? No, both those coaches had warts but the main reason for failure was other than Latin’s first year unsuccessful recruiting was the overwhelming reason for the programs disappointing seasons.
SJU had two chances to elevate the program by lowering its standards and recruiting Whitehead or hiring Pitino. Opting not to risk the backlash those two moves would have generated , especially the Pitino hiring, I would say the current recruiting is in worse shape than ever and SJU will now battle De Paul and Geo for ninth, tenth and eleventh place for the next few years.
The only hope for an improvement in the near future is in the hands of the new president. If he is as much a supporter of the basketball program as hoped perhaps he can come up with some money and shake up the group that has run the program into the ground. Otherwise Anderson will be replaced and destroyed on red men.com and the slide down will continue.
 
[quote="Monte" post=409586][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409560][quote="Monte" post=409559][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409546][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

SO that's the answer, if cma isn't the answer then no worries, there will always be someone waiting in the wings? Dude we been saying that for the last 20 years. Oh lavin is known and is a great recruiter, finally someone that knows what he's doing.
Mullin, best player in a school history, beloved by sju, he a former scout then gm. He really knows talent.
If anyone can be successful here it's the man Chris mullin.
How did those 2 workout here?

I really.pray cma is the man to do it here. I believe next year will tell alot with the amount of experience he'll have here.
If not him then we'll get someone of course, but aren't you sick of starting all over again?
The do overs to me are getting really hard to deal with.

A few more years of this you'll have to start believing that we're just like nyu, Fordham, and ccny. A once great basketball school that is a has been.
You could disagree if you want but just look at the last 20 years, can anyone tell me we done any more than those?


Dude, I have no idea what your point is. You want CMA fired now? Is that it?











.[/quote][/quote]

You made it seem like if we have to do it all over again with a new coach, then no biggie.

Maybe to you it's not.[/quote]

That's not at all what I said. And you never answered my question; do you suggest we do, fire CMA now? That's a pretty straightforward question.[/quote]

Monte, I keep saying that I want to see how cma team plays next year, he'll have a bunch of experience players.
 
EBK, I agree. Time of year when elf with Will Ferrell and James Caan is on all the time and it makes me think that 40 minutes of hell only works when there is enough Christmas spirit, in our case, muscle memory, to have players move in to correct defensive position so rapidly that other teams start to speed up and make mistakes. Have been watching STJ since late 50's and do not understand what happened to cut off our supply of 6'5" CYO never miss from the elbow jump shooters. Our current talent is so in need of a quick release catch and shoot deadeye wing to force teams to not overplay drivers and Champ.
 
With the SERIOUS financial problems that SJU is facing right now, don’t hold your breath waiting for any money coming from the new president. Not in the short term. The financials at SJU are very poor with so many students staying home and learning remotely putting the balance sheet in bad shape.
I wonder if they told the new president how bad things really are? Maybe that’s why their first interview/choice Fr Jim took himself out of the running as being on our Board as Niagara President he knew the true financials.
 
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[quote="EliteBaller K" post=409623][quote="Monte" post=409586][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409560][quote="Monte" post=409559][quote="EliteBaller K" post=409546][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

SO that's the answer, if cma isn't the answer then no worries, there will always be someone waiting in the wings? Dude we been saying that for the last 20 years. Oh lavin is known and is a great recruiter, finally someone that knows what he's doing.
Mullin, best player in a school history, beloved by sju, he a former scout then gm. He really knows talent.
If anyone can be successful here it's the man Chris mullin.
How did those 2 workout here?

I really.pray cma is the man to do it here. I believe next year will tell alot with the amount of experience he'll have here.
If not him then we'll get someone of course, but aren't you sick of starting all over again?
The do overs to me are getting really hard to deal with.

A few more years of this you'll have to start believing that we're just like nyu, Fordham, and ccny. A once great basketball school that is a has been.
You could disagree if you want but just look at the last 20 years, can anyone tell me we done any more than those?


Dude, I have no idea what your point is. You want CMA fired now? Is that it?











.[/quote][/quote]

You made it seem like if we have to do it all over again with a new coach, then no biggie.

Maybe to you it's not.[/quote]

That's not at all what I said. And you never answered my question; do you suggest we do, fire CMA now? That's a pretty straightforward question.[/quote]

Monte, I keep saying that I want to see how cma team plays next year, he'll have a bunch of experience players.[/quote]

I'm going to assume that I'm a lot older then you, so trust me when I tell you that the idea of starting over doesn't thrill me at all. I've only got a certain amount of "start overs" left in me. But the idea of holding on to a mediocre coach(not at all saying that CMA is mediocre) just because we don't think we can do better, thrills me even less.
 
[quote="AJ Hidell" post=409627]With the SERIOUS financial problems that SJU is facing right now, don’t hold your breath waiting for any money coming from the new president. Not in the short term. The financials at SJU are very poor with so many students staying home and learning remotely putting the balance sheet in bad shape.
I wonder if they told the new president how bad things really are? Maybe that’s why their first interview/choice Fr Jim took himself out of the running as being on our Board as Niagara President he knew the true financials.[/quote]

You may know better but Father Jim wasn't a finalist
As a Vincentian, he could be directed to come here.

The money isn't ever going to come from Father Shanley, it's going to come from us, alumni and supporters.

Any student at sju is paying the same tuition for distance learning. Of course they lose room and board revenue. Jsj may know how much enrollment is down, I'm not sure.

As a university president for 15 years you'd better be certain one of the first things Father Shanley considered were our finances.
 
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I believe Fr Jim was the first in person interviewed on campus by the board and withdrew soon after.
My point regarding money is the present administration under Bobby has cut the athletic department budgets drastically, along with other areas of the university. I hope the new president gives back the funding to the athletic department to at least to where it was pre Covid.
 
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