Criticism

[quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

And Jay Wright was a new coming Hot coach form a mid major in Hofstra right? Mike Anderson has come here from a big time SEC program in ARK, and also Missouri. With his stellar track record he should be righting the ship a little bit quicker than he has IMO. Look at Barnes at Tenn, Musselman at Ark, Keatts at NC who have been successful so far at their new schools. We have to be fair and if we keep saying how confident we are in CMA that we will turn it around because of his track record we also have to be fair and say why isn't he bringing in better recruits and getting better results if he has such a great track record. No losing seasons. Everyone says how deep we are but it looks to me that players have regressed this season outside of Julian.

We also need to stop saying IF. IF this happens I really think we can turn it around. Its what the Mets have done for years and its a loser mentality IMO. IF this breaks right we can have a good year! We should have more solid answers rather than IFS
 
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[quote="TheArtest15" post=409473][quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

And Jay Wright was a new coming Hot coach form a mid major in Hofstra right? Mike Anderson has come here from a big time SEC program in ARK, and also Missouri. With his stellar track record he should be righting the ship a little bit quicker than he has IMO. Look at Barnes at Tenn, Musselman at Ark, Keatts at NC who have been successful so far at their new schools. We have to be fair and if we keep saying how confident we are in CMA that we will turn it around because of his track record we also have to be fair and say why isn't he bringing in better recruits and getting better results if he has such a great track record. No losing seasons. Everyone says how deep we are but it looks to me that players have regressed this season outside of Julian.

We also need to stop saying IF. IF this happens I really think we can turn it around. Its what the Mets have done for years and its a loser mentality IMO. IF this breaks right we can have a good year! We should have more solid answers rather than IFS[/quote]

I agree with much of what you're saying, and I get your frustration, but having said that;
A)CMA seems to have been by far the best of the serious options that we were left with during the last coaching search, and;
B)CMA is not going anywhere for quite some time(at least 5-6 years) no matter how badly the team does and no matter how much the fan base kicks and screams.

So at some point, if he doesn't turn it around, I'll probably decide on apathy over anger and frustration. At my age, it's just a healthier route to take
 
[quote="Not an alum" post=409426]Im expecting the typical Anderson improvement during the year. It’s far from over. Myself included we had some unrealistic Expectations this year. We’re young but I think we’re close. With the new transfer rule and addition by subtraction we will improve.

Frustration is a natural reaction bc we’ve been here all too often. Im trusting the staff and track records. However it’s time they go the transfer route. That’s the way to immediately bring in talent.[/quote]

“Addition by subtraction!” I was waiting for that one. It’s my favorite. Every time we lose a good player.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

Hah! This is my second favorite post after “addition by subtraction.” Another Redmen.com favorite. Houdini was a great escape artist. Would you volunteer to be locked up in a box ands thrown into the ocean ? Why not? Look at Houdini!
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=409471]I never understood the posters on here saying we will be better off without LJ. He is by far way more talented than anyone we have on our roster right now. He was a big loss and we took him for granted. Having him as a go to guy opened up lanes to drive for Dunn and our guards last year etc. I feel bad for Champ, he has no consistent help on the offensive side of the ball and looks exhausted by the end of the game[/quote]

Addition by subtraction.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

Since you called the idea of firing a coach after 2 underwhelming seasons “nonsense” I suppose it’s fair for me to say in reply that this post right here is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

Where is the correlation between a young Jay Wright’s first 3 seasons to this coach who is over the hill and out of his element? Wright and Nova were a perfect fit from the jump.

This is almost as stupid as the poster who said we should have covid spread amongst the players to give us time to regroup.
 
If you’re bottom of the table in most sports, the coach/manager does not get more than 2 seasons often times. It’s remarkable how much patience some have while exposing themselves to more disappointment and failure. Giving this guy 5 years was a byproduct of nobody wanting to coach here and wanting to end the national embarrassment. That fact doesn’t make it right to keep him around any longer.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

Wright took over for Lappas, who didn't do poorly at Nova. In fact, Lappas's winning % and tourney appearances at Nova were very similar to CMA's at Ark. So Wright came in to a better situation. The difference between Nova and us is that Nova strives for excellence both on the court and in the classroom. We, OTOH, seem to aim for mediocre-good. By year 3 Jay had 8 top 100 kids on his roster. The same for year 4 when he went 24-8/11-5, finished 4th in the Big East and made the tourney. We all know the rest.
 
[quote="Adam" post=409451][quote="Beast of the East" post=409439][quote="Adam" post=409431][quote="Beast of the East" post=409428][quote="Adam" post=409427][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409422][quote="Adam" post=409414]I haven't been a St. John's fan for long (Lavin's second year), but this is the first time I don't feel optimistic about anything surrounding the program. Mullin year 1-2? We were young and recruiting very well. Last year? We started and finished strong. Now it's clear the ending to last season was a fluke.

Even worse, CMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think he deserves more time obviously, but unless we start recruiting like an average Big East team then I just can't get excited. I'm more of a glass half full guy, too.[/quote]

Damn Adam, I love you as a poster. You don’t have optimism that both our freshmen look like legitimate BE players? Or our lone sophomore? You know, the guys that anderson recruited in his only two classes.[/quote]

The results speak for themselves. We are a bad team, period. This is a team sport and Anderson is recruiting well below how Mullin and Lavin recruited at this point in their tenures.

IF we can retain those players for the next few years and IF we can get BE level talent at all positions, then yes I will be optimistic. I don't expect that to happen, though. Doesn't sound like the team has a tight bond so I'd be surprised if the better players stick around. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]

I don't know if this correlates, but I've been told the team gets along really well, and are to a man committed to being Covid free this season. Each kid knows that if he gets sick he jeopardizes the team and not only his own health. So far, our guys have been exceptional role models in this regard, as have all St. John's student athletes.[/quote]

That's good to hear. I was just going by what Zach B posted on Twitter yesterday.

Zach: After re-listening to Rasheem Dunn and Mike Anderson, seems like a consensus that this team is not connected. A lot of talk about lack of communication and getting on the same page. Nearly 10 games in. #sjubb[/quote]

I'm certain they mean basketball wise, not interpersonally. Hey, just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your posts. Typically you are fair, balanced, and well informed. All of us a little down over this slow start, but I'm not as distressed as when teams Lavin had that were expected to be NCAA tourney teams flopped early. Keep your chin up![/quote]

Thanks for that, I don't have any insight into what's happening inside the program which is why I come here. We have a few good pieces we need to hang into to. I try not to get too frustrated but it has been frustrating for a long time now. I actually was far more upset with the Georgetown loss than this one, because at least then I still had expectations (bubble team). Now it feels like not only have expectations been lowered from the Lavin and Mullin years, but in addition to that we're not even meeting those lowered expectations. Small sample size I know, hopefully we can turn things around.[/quote]

PM me, ok?
 
[quote="Monte" post=409488][quote="Beast of the East" post=409436][quote="Monte" post=409429]CMA isn't going anywhere and the thought shouldn't even be entertained right now. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time to give him to substantially right the ship, and 5 years till the ship is completely righted. Having said that, I completely disagree that if for some reason it didn't work out with CMA, that it's the end of the world. There will be another good coach, maybe some young, hot up-an-comer, willing to come here. Hopefully we don't ever get to that point.[/quote]

Jay Wright's 1st three Villanova seasons:

2001-02 Villanova Big East 32 19 13 .594
2002-03 Villanova Big East 31 15 16 .484
2003-04 Villanova Big East 35 18 17 .514[/quote]

Wright took over for Lappas, who didn't do poorly at Nova. In fact, Lappas's winning % and tourney appearances at Nova were very similar to CMA's at Ark. So Wright came in to a better situation. The difference between Nova and us is that Nova strives for excellence both on the court and in the classroom. We, OTOH, seem to aim for mediocre-good. By year 3 Jay had 8 top 100 kids on his roster. The same for year 4 when he went 24-8/11-5, finished 4th in the Big East and made the tourney. We all know the rest.[/quote]

The situations are definitely not similar and any comparisons begin and end with "it takes some time for a new coach, even a great one, to get a program where he wants it. Not suggesting that Anderson walked into the same situation. Wright started at a better place. All the more reason for us to exercise some restraint and patience with CMA. He is not responsible for all the happened before him, and he has a solid resume of success.
 
[quote="sirvoo" post=409487]If you’re bottom of the table in most sports, the coach/manager does not get more than 2 seasons often times. It’s remarkable how much patience some have while exposing themselves to more disappointment and failure. Giving this guy 5 years was a byproduct of nobody wanting to coach here and wanting to end the national embarrassment. That fact doesn’t make it right to keep him around any longer.[/quote]

Where is college basketball do you hire an experienced guy with a 2 year deal? What school gives a guy a guaranteed 5 year deal (pretty much the standard) and fire him after two for other than doing something egregious?

Hey by your response, I wanted to tell you that I didn't mean to offend you and wasn't trying to take a swipe at your earlier post, at least not personally.
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=409494]Way too soon, but can't see school eating another salary anyway.[/quote]

Do you realize that if we kept Slice on the payroll, he is getting paid for this season, year 6 of his deal?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409496][quote="RedStormNC" post=409494]Way too soon, but can't see school eating another salary anyway.[/quote]

Do you realize that if we kept Slice on the payroll, he is getting paid for this season, year 6 of his deal?[/quote]

Wonder what idiotic AD gave an assistant coach a guaranteed contract of that length.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=409491][quote="sirvoo" post=409487]If you’re bottom of the table in most sports, the coach/manager does not get more than 2 seasons often times. It’s remarkable how much patience some have while exposing themselves to more disappointment and failure. Giving this guy 5 years was a byproduct of nobody wanting to coach here and wanting to end the national embarrassment. That fact doesn’t make it right to keep him around any longer.[/quote]

Where is college basketball do you hire an experienced guy with a 2 year deal? What school gives a guy a guaranteed 5 year deal (pretty much the standard) and fire him after two for other than doing something egregious?

Hey by your response, I wanted to tell you that I didn't mean to offend you and wasn't trying to take a swipe at your earlier post, at least not personally.[/quote]

No offense taken Beast. A 2-year deal is unheard of yes, but this contract makes it very difficult for us to cut bait after 2 years.

If we continue on this trajectory, MA will be a lame duck coach next year which is an awful recipe for recruiting and just compounds the on court struggles.

I give this fan base a lot of credit you are VERY patient. I hope I’m dead wrong about our outlook here. Would prefer it! But I just can’t subscribe to giving a retread hire more time to build when it happens at the snap of the fingers in other places.
 
The talk about a new coach is ridiculous. It is not like prospective coaches are knocking the doors down for the SJU job. Have people already forgotten how the search for a new coach went before we lucked into hiring CMA?
 
[quote="Moose" post=409498][quote="Beast of the East" post=409496][quote="RedStormNC" post=409494]Way too soon, but can't see school eating another salary anyway.[/quote]

Do you realize that if we kept Slice on the payroll, he is getting paid for this season, year 6 of his deal?[/quote]

Wonder what idiotic AD gave an assistant coach a guaranteed contract of that length.[/quote]

Did we have an AD at the time? Monasch was out the door by then. Was it Oliva that approved it.

One of the things that is a reality is not only did we hire a guy with no coaching experience and no college experience, but there was no AD in place. In other words we made a very risky hire (that if you remember I was totally in favor of, to put it mildly), under the worst possible circumstances. He had very little guidance and oversight, which definitely contributed to the problems he had. An experienced AD would never have gone for Slice with a 6 year guaranteed deal.

If you really think about it, given the fact that Monasch was headed out the door, we would have been better off to retain Lavin for the 6th season, hire someone of the caliber of MC or even MC, and let him hire the right coach. Even if the hired coach would have been Mullin, he would have had an experienced person above him, not what he ultimately had.
 
[quote="Ron" post=409503]The talk about a new coach is ridiculous. It is not like prospective coaches are knocking the doors down for the SJU job. Have people already forgotten how the search for a new coach went before we lucked into hiring CMA?[/quote]

Yes they are. There are some absolutely ridiculous posts in this thread, from posters who apparently think St John's is still a destination for big name coaches at the moment. We are not in the 80's anymore.
 
[quote="Room112" post=409508][quote="Ron" post=409503]The talk about a new coach is ridiculous. It is not like prospective coaches are knocking the doors down for the SJU job. Have people already forgotten how the search for a new coach went before we lucked into hiring CMA?[/quote]

Yes they are. There are some absolutely ridiculous posts in this thread, from posters who apparently think St John's is still a destination for big name coaches at the moment. We are not in the 80's anymore.[/quote]

I agree, but also point out that we went to the NCAA's 3 times in 9 years of Lavin/Mullin. It wasn't good enough, but we are not DePaul.
 
[quote="sirvoo" post=409499][quote="Beast of the East" post=409491][quote="sirvoo" post=409487]If you’re bottom of the table in most sports, the coach/manager does not get more than 2 seasons often times. It’s remarkable how much patience some have while exposing themselves to more disappointment and failure. Giving this guy 5 years was a byproduct of nobody wanting to coach here and wanting to end the national embarrassment. That fact doesn’t make it right to keep him around any longer.[/quote]

Where is college basketball do you hire an experienced guy with a 2 year deal? What school gives a guy a guaranteed 5 year deal (pretty much the standard) and fire him after two for other than doing something egregious?

Hey by your response, I wanted to tell you that I didn't mean to offend you and wasn't trying to take a swipe at your earlier post, at least not personally.[/quote]

No offense taken Beast. A 2-year deal is unheard of yes, but this contract makes it very difficult for us to cut bait after 2 years.

If we continue on this trajectory, MA will be a lame duck coach next year which is an awful recipe for recruiting and just compounds the on court struggles.

I give this fan base a lot of credit you are VERY patient. I hope I’m dead wrong about our outlook here. Would prefer it! But I just can’t subscribe to giving a retread hire more time to build when it happens at the snap of the fingers in other places.[/quote]

I'll disclose one tiny bit of information that I know is a fact. CMA really wants to prove that Arkansas made a mistake in letting him go, and is EXTREMELY motivated to create a winner here. Success to him isn't simply making the dance one and out. Even getting through the first weekend of the tourney isn't what he is after. His goal is be the last guy standing when the nets are cut down, and not anything less than that. Am I confident he'll get there? I've been through far too many disappointing seasons to think that will happen, but I will say I'm convinced that's where he is setting the bar. Way too early to bail on this.
 
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