Criticism
- Thread starter logen
- Start date
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Knight" post=408988]SJU had to forfeit more than 45 games for Jarvis’ fine work. Keep it clean.[/quote]
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=409016][quote="lawmanfan" post=408970]We needed a brand new thread on recruiting, said no-one ever.[/quote]
Can we make it a sticky?[/quote]
I have mine ready, titled "Epilogue - Recruiting Kyle Cuffe"
Can we make it a sticky?[/quote]
I have mine ready, titled "Epilogue - Recruiting Kyle Cuffe"
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=409016][quote="lawmanfan" post=408970]We needed a brand new thread on recruiting, said no-one ever.[/quote]
Can we make it a sticky?[/quote]
....along with Panther's "Perspective" thread. Since we don't seem to have a shortage of those either lol.
Can we make it a sticky?[/quote]
....along with Panther's "Perspective" thread. Since we don't seem to have a shortage of those either lol.
[quote="L J S A" post=409017][quote="Knight" post=408988]SJU had to forfeit more than 45 games for Jarvis’ fine work. Keep it clean.[/quote]
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.[/quote]
Wasn't he a 4 star player?
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.[/quote]
Wasn't he a 4 star player?
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Room112" post=409035][quote="L J S A" post=409017][quote="Knight" post=408988]SJU had to forfeit more than 45 games for Jarvis’ fine work. Keep it clean.[/quote]
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.[/quote]
Wasn't he a 4 star player?[/quote]
No clue. But I heard Jarvis offered him despite never seeing him play.
The moral of that story is that if you are going to pay a kid, don't expel him for a rape that turned out to not actually be rape. And don't pay blabbermouths. And if you are going to pay blabbermouths, make sure they average more points than fouls.[/quote]
Wasn't he a 4 star player?[/quote]
No clue. But I heard Jarvis offered him despite never seeing him play.
This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.
[quote="sirvoo" post=409321]This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
Give him next year, a team with experience, if they still stink then more will be on board with you.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
Give him next year, a team with experience, if they still stink then more will be on board with you.
boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=409367][quote="sirvoo" post=409321]This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
Give him next year, a team with experience, if they still stink then more will be on board with you.[/quote]
And then let’s rebuild again! If this year continues on the same trajectory, there will be a mass exodus and next year’s team will not have much experience.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
Give him next year, a team with experience, if they still stink then more will be on board with you.[/quote]
And then let’s rebuild again! If this year continues on the same trajectory, there will be a mass exodus and next year’s team will not have much experience.
TheArtest15
Member
[quote="Logen" post=408954]So the recruiting “stars” issue rages on. I don’t think anyone with a modicum of basketball knowledge refutes that you need good players to be good. Where people separate is the “barrage” of criticism by a handful of posters hell bent on questioning why CMA to date has not brought in high enough rated players to satisfy them. Their zeal is fed by a handful of posters who look at highlight mix tapes and declare every new recruit to be a perfect fit and way more talented than they really are.
So CMA’s recruiting is compared unfavorably to Lavin and Mullin, neither of whom won anything with their plethora of 4 star recruits. Both headed at least partially dysfunctional programs and neither showed a work ethic required to build a sustainable BE program. But, joy of joys, at least they underachieved with 4 star recruits. Let’s ignore they both handed over skeleton rosters to their successor.
Further, the SJU “reality (or challenges)” is largely ignored by the CMA critics. When asked why they think that level of player would or should pick SJU at this point in time, like a petulant child asked to explain bad behavior, you get silence. When asked to explain why the team he puts on the floor is talented enough to win games for 37 minutes and then proceed to beat themselves, you get the same silence. And yes, I believe in game coaching and possibly being married to a single style of play is part of that problem, I am not trying to say CMA is beyond reproach. But I am saying the recruitment criticism at this point in his tenure is just beyond my understanding.
Having said all that, we need better talent, no doubt, I am not arguing we don’t. But we will get better talent by winning, plain and simple. Unfortunately, winning enough consistently, stabilizing the SJU program to get better recruits is going to take time, plain and simple.
For those hell bent on criticizing Pinzon and Traore, one question, are they an upgrade to our current roster? Are they local and coming from a winning program? Winning begats winning, just like losing becomes a habit. The same people downplaying their recruitment criticized and belittled the recruitment of Wusu, who certainly has proven to be better than this critics implied. I would end this by saying that people who I know know basketball, like JPM, have a much different view of CMA’s recruiting; we shall see.[/quote]
Why should that level of player choose SJU to play for CMA? Doesn't he have a great track record? 18 straight winning seasons? A great talent evaluator and developer of talent? Why would 4 star recruits come to play for Mullin and Lavin but not him with such a great resume?
So CMA’s recruiting is compared unfavorably to Lavin and Mullin, neither of whom won anything with their plethora of 4 star recruits. Both headed at least partially dysfunctional programs and neither showed a work ethic required to build a sustainable BE program. But, joy of joys, at least they underachieved with 4 star recruits. Let’s ignore they both handed over skeleton rosters to their successor.
Further, the SJU “reality (or challenges)” is largely ignored by the CMA critics. When asked why they think that level of player would or should pick SJU at this point in time, like a petulant child asked to explain bad behavior, you get silence. When asked to explain why the team he puts on the floor is talented enough to win games for 37 minutes and then proceed to beat themselves, you get the same silence. And yes, I believe in game coaching and possibly being married to a single style of play is part of that problem, I am not trying to say CMA is beyond reproach. But I am saying the recruitment criticism at this point in his tenure is just beyond my understanding.
Having said all that, we need better talent, no doubt, I am not arguing we don’t. But we will get better talent by winning, plain and simple. Unfortunately, winning enough consistently, stabilizing the SJU program to get better recruits is going to take time, plain and simple.
For those hell bent on criticizing Pinzon and Traore, one question, are they an upgrade to our current roster? Are they local and coming from a winning program? Winning begats winning, just like losing becomes a habit. The same people downplaying their recruitment criticized and belittled the recruitment of Wusu, who certainly has proven to be better than this critics implied. I would end this by saying that people who I know know basketball, like JPM, have a much different view of CMA’s recruiting; we shall see.[/quote]
Why should that level of player choose SJU to play for CMA? Doesn't he have a great track record? 18 straight winning seasons? A great talent evaluator and developer of talent? Why would 4 star recruits come to play for Mullin and Lavin but not him with such a great resume?
TheArtest15
Member
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=408999]There doesn't need to be a debate about recruiting. It's better to have a team of 4 star rather than 3 star players. Rivals and other services must be pretty accurate. You don't see Wright, Calipari, Self and Williams recruiting 3 star players thinking they will outsmart the rankings. CMA, OTOH, has to outsmart the rankings and find 3* recruits that are underrated and will develop, primarily because he can't offer the nicest training facilities or arena, and can't attract a kid who wants to compete for a national title in the few years he may play college ball. I think he has a good eye for talent, and plays a system that can neutralize the skill set differential he faces in almost every Big East game.[/quote]
With his track record and successful resume why does he have to outsmart the rankings? Oh yeah this system is really neutralizing the skill set differential in every big east game going 5-16 so far in Big east play.
With his track record and successful resume why does he have to outsmart the rankings? Oh yeah this system is really neutralizing the skill set differential in every big east game going 5-16 so far in Big east play.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
[quote="sirvoo" post=409321]This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.
TheArtest15
Member
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=409386][quote="sirvoo" post=409321]This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.[/quote]
Ive been very critical of CMA but we really need stop the trend of firing coaches so quickly. He needs at least 4-5 years to see if he can build this program. I have been disappointed but you are exactly right, if he got fired after year 2, this program would go further into the abyss and be even more irrelevant.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.[/quote]
Ive been very critical of CMA but we really need stop the trend of firing coaches so quickly. He needs at least 4-5 years to see if he can build this program. I have been disappointed but you are exactly right, if he got fired after year 2, this program would go further into the abyss and be even more irrelevant.
[quote="TheArtest15" post=409388][quote="Ray Morgan" post=409386][quote="sirvoo" post=409321]This team would struggle to contend in the top half of the MAAC let alone the Big East.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.[/quote]
Ive been very critical of CMA but we really need stop the trend of firing coaches so quickly. He needs at least 4-5 years to see if he can build this program. I have been disappointed but you are exactly right, if he got fired after year 2, this program would go further into the abyss and be even more irrelevant.[/quote]
Our problem is the opposite, we don’t fire coaches quick enough!
The biggest farce is that it takes time to build a program. Programs are built overnight with the right coach. I’ve seen enough to say this coach is a retread that has been worn out.
Most in the fan base have a reasonable expectation and desire to be on par with Seton Hall, PC, Butler etc.
This coach has us much closer to DePaul than those aforementioned programs.
Time is not an excuse. He had LJ and Heron and failed to build on a decent 19-20 season. Letting MA stay for another year will set this program back another 4 years.[/quote]
What a great idea. Fire a coach 2 years into his 5 year contract. The guy never had a losing season. If a coach with 18 straight winning seasons can't win here, and gets ridden out of town on a rail, there isn't a sane coach that would even entertain an offer from St. John's. It's a bottomless chasm that eats up coaches the way Earl ate up the whole left side of the menu.[/quote]
Ive been very critical of CMA but we really need stop the trend of firing coaches so quickly. He needs at least 4-5 years to see if he can build this program. I have been disappointed but you are exactly right, if he got fired after year 2, this program would go further into the abyss and be even more irrelevant.[/quote]
Our problem is the opposite, we don’t fire coaches quick enough!
The biggest farce is that it takes time to build a program. Programs are built overnight with the right coach. I’ve seen enough to say this coach is a retread that has been worn out.
beast of the east
Active member
I try to be consistent. Before he ever coached a game here I posted that clients and coworkers in arkansas and missouri were in agreement: very good coach, not a great recruiter.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.
Last edited:
Beast of the East wrote:
I try to be consistent. Before he ever coached a game here I posted that clients and coworkers in arkansas and missouri were in agreement: very good coach, not a great recruiter.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.
Very fair, balanced post Beast. Thanks. A little sanity is welcome first thing in the morning.
I try to be consistent. Before he ever coached a game here I posted that clients and coworkers in arkansas and missouri were in agreement: very good coach, not a great recruiter.
Last season we absolutely saw strong evidence that he indeed is a very good coach as his team vastly improved from start to finish.
Recruiting wise CMA seemed to fill the roster with purpose. If not top shelf talent, he appeared to have done a good job building a year 2 roster that would be as deep as 10 or 11, a luxury we had not seen in ages here. I was coming around on the idea that perhaps he has a better eye and better idea of how to build a roster than given credit for.
So, it's looking like this season's roster isn't as deep as appeared. To be fair, though, if guys like Cole and Posh make a better adjustment, and Wusu continues to impress, Julian may find it easier to play at the level he appears capable of.
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on CMA's ability to recruit top 50 talent, but I saw enough last season to be confident that he can coach.
I was hoping for 7 to 9 conference wins, which was far below most expectations here. I'm not sure we can even win 7 in conference, but I do believe we will improve significantly by season's end.
Talk of firing is nonsense at this point.
Very fair, balanced post Beast. Thanks. A little sanity is welcome first thing in the morning.
There is a huge drop off defensively at the 3 from LJ to any one of Williams, Dunn, or Cole. Covered so much ground and aside from the 2+ steals he disrupted the passing lanes better than anyone we have. It’s our defense that has took the biggest bit this year and to think how little he was appreciated on that end baffles me.
Wait people are legitimately calling for coaches firing? He is a system coach who hasn’t had an upperclassmen in his system yet. Not even in the second semester of their second year! You guys are absolutely insane.
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=409397]There is a huge drop off defensively at the 3 from LJ to any one of Williams, Dunn, or Cole. Covered so much ground and aside from the 2+ steals he disrupted the passing lanes better than anyone we have. It’s our defense that has took the biggest bit this year and to think how little he was appreciated on that end baffles me.[/quote]
You hit the nail on the head, not only about Lj but the defense. Defense is supposed to be our signature and we are awful at it this year. These guys don’t seem to be close to putting it together and that is our problem right now. We weren’t going to have the highest scoring team in the league and we knew that. I did expect us to be at minimum a top 5 defensive team in the league in most categories, and with the depth to help turn up our defensive intensity. We are polar opposite this year and it’s the reason we are losing, not the offense at all IMO.
You hit the nail on the head, not only about Lj but the defense. Defense is supposed to be our signature and we are awful at it this year. These guys don’t seem to be close to putting it together and that is our problem right now. We weren’t going to have the highest scoring team in the league and we knew that. I did expect us to be at minimum a top 5 defensive team in the league in most categories, and with the depth to help turn up our defensive intensity. We are polar opposite this year and it’s the reason we are losing, not the offense at all IMO.