(Charleston Classic) Dayton, Fri., Nov. 17, 2p, ESPN2

The disheartening/ scary thing is that would be easy to say takes time for a group of mid major kids to adjust to the level of comp. But outside of Michigan we basically played mid major comp
BE going to be rough it appears
 
First thought is that Dingle has to become a major part of the offense. He seems out of synch and probably short on fitness at this point. He has to take way more shots than Daniss, who has not looked good so far. Of all the transfers, Daniss should have been the most advanced as having played for CP. Ledlum needs to use a mid range game and the occasional 3 as he just can't score when he attacks the basket. He does rebound well, especially for his size.

Of course it's early, but the current indicators, which were foreshadowed by their stats from previous seasons, is that this is an average shooting team at best with underwhelming athleticism for a high major, and only 2 or 3 players with above average motors. However, a top 15-20 center nationally with some skilled payers both yet to play or yet to fit in, coupled with an all world coach, should get us somewhere. Not yet sure where that somewhere is.
 
Ray Morgan said:
First thought is that Dingle has to become a major part of the offense. He seems out of synch and probably short on fitness at this point. He has to take way more shots than Daniss, who has not looked good so far. Of all the transfers, Daniss should have been the most advanced as having played for CP. Ledlum needs to use a mid range game and the occasional 3 as he just can't score when he attacks the basket. He does rebound well, especially for his size.

Of course it's early, but the current indicators, which were foreshadowed by their stats from previous seasons, is that this is an average shooting team at best with underwhelming athleticism for a high major, and only 2 or 3 players with above average motors. However, a top 15-20 center nationally with some skilled payers both yet to play or yet to fit in, coupled with an all world coach, should get us somewhere. Not yet sure where that somewhere is.
Click to expand...
That would be the easiest way to turn things around. Dingle more closely resembles who he was at Penn and becomes Hardy/Hatten.
 
I am really hoping Luis can play some minutes Sunday. We could really use a little jolt of energy right now. Going into the year, many thought depth would be a strength. As it turns out, with RJ back we will go 9 deep which is fine. Conway, Dunlap, Drissa, Davis seem to be bit players this year.
 
Knight said:
These players were recruited to run Pitino’s system. I’m not sure the can. Does he change his system to fit the players he has, or will he be stubborn and hold the line?
Click to expand...
These players were recruited in the last minute and probably (I don’t really know) the best available to Pitino at a time when he had to fill a roster very quickly. No NIL to speak of and a reset needed for a roster that stunk from both performance and culture points of view. Let‘s keep it real because “the sky is falling“ posts like this are just nonsense. I have said this before, was lambasted, but I will say it again, there are some posters here who would seem to have a problem picking a basketball out of a barrel of pumpkins.
Posters listened to talking heads looking for clicks to cash in on Pitino’s name, and believed the hype without having seen any of these players play. Then when they don’t live up to the hype, try to act like they know better than a HOF coach as to who should play, who should shoot, what offense to run, etc., etc., etc.
Give the man a chance to do what he has done his whole career, take good players but NOT the cream of the crop, NOT the most highly rated players and mold them into a team no one wants to play at some point in the season.
Give the players a freaking chance; none of whom, outside of Taylor, came from P5 teams, to make the leap in competition; and not 1 or 2 plugging into a system with at least some holdovers, but a whole GD roster.
I get that it is disappointing, but from my perspective many here bought unrealistically into lofty expectations, not understanding Pitino’s real strength, because I will clue you guys into something, Pitino’s never recruited many 5 stars, nor has he sent a boatload of players he “developed” to the NBA, he has molded teams that win, he has built programs that win, some teams and programs taking longer than others but they all get there and pretty f’ing quickly. So my advice is live with whatever growing pains we are going to go through because history tells us it will be well worth the wait.
 
logen said:
These players were recruited in the last minute and probably (I don’t really know) the best available to Pitino at a time when he had to fill a roster very quickly. No NIL to speak of and a reset needed for a roster that stunk from both performance and culture points of view. Let‘s keep it real because “the sky is falling“ posts like this are just nonsense. I have said this before, was lambasted, but I will say it again, there are some posters here who would seem to have a problem picking a basketball out of a barrel of pumpkins.
Posters listened to talking heads looking for clicks to cash in on Pitino’s name, and believed the hype without having seen any of these players play. Then when they don’t live up to the hype, try to act like they know better than a HOF coach as to who should play, who should shoot, what offense to run, etc., etc., etc.
Give the man a chance to do what he has done his whole career, take good players but NOT the cream of the crop, NOT the most highly rated players and mold them into a team no one wants to play at some point in the season.
Give the players a freaking chance; none of whom, outside of Taylor, came from P5 teams, to make the leap in competition; and not 1 or 2 plugging into a system with at least some holdovers, but a whole GD roster.
I get that it is disappointing, but from my perspective many here bought unrealistically into lofty expectations, not understanding Pitino’s real strength, because I will clue you guys into something, Pitino’s never recruited many 5 stars, nor has he sent a boatload of players he “developed” to the NBA, he has molded teams that win, he has built programs that win, some teams and programs taking longer than others but they all get there and pretty f’ing quickly. So my advice is live with whatever growing pains we are going to go through because history tells us it will be well worth the wait.
Click to expand...
Taylor is not the only player to come from a power 5 school. Alleyne came from UConn and Zuby came from Kansas.
 
I find it confusing that it is a certainty that the gap between the major schools and the mid and low majors has narrowed considerably over the years yet transfers Ledlum and Dingle, both elite mid major players, who are as physical as major school players and are experienced struggle on the court.
It is still early but I expected a lot more. Dingle was mentioned as possibly going pro. It just doesn’t add up.
 
GardenCity62 said:
I find it confusing that it is a certainty that the gap between the major schools and the mid and low majors has narrowed considerably over the years yet transfers Ledlum and Dingle, both elite mid major players, who are as physical as major school players and are experienced struggle on the court.
It is still early but I expected a lot more. Dingle was mentioned as possibly going pro. It just doesn’t add up.
Click to expand...
It’s getting to know a new coach , a new system and getting to know the other 12 guys on the team. As was already stated, all these guys were basically main options on the previous teams and now they have defined roles and a different system to fit into. Let Rick do what Rick does. That’s why we brought him here. To start questioning him at this juncture is not prudent.
 
logen said:
These players were recruited in the last minute and probably (I don’t really know) the best available to Pitino at a time when he had to fill a roster very quickly. No NIL to speak of and a reset needed for a roster that stunk from both performance and culture points of view. Let‘s keep it real because “the sky is falling“ posts like this are just nonsense. I have said this before, was lambasted, but I will say it again, there are some posters here who would seem to have a problem picking a basketball out of a barrel of pumpkins.
Posters listened to talking heads looking for clicks to cash in on Pitino’s name, and believed the hype without having seen any of these players play. Then when they don’t live up to the hype, try to act like they know better than a HOF coach as to who should play, who should shoot, what offense to run, etc., etc., etc.
Give the man a chance to do what he has done his whole career, take good players but NOT the cream of the crop, NOT the most highly rated players and mold them into a team no one wants to play at some point in the season.
Give the players a freaking chance; none of whom, outside of Taylor, came from P5 teams, to make the leap in competition; and not 1 or 2 plugging into a system with at least some holdovers, but a whole GD roster.
I get that it is disappointing, but from my perspective many here bought unrealistically into lofty expectations, not understanding Pitino’s real strength, because I will clue you guys into something, Pitino’s never recruited many 5 stars, nor has he sent a boatload of players he “developed” to the NBA, he has molded teams that win, he has built programs that win, some teams and programs taking longer than others but they all get there and pretty f’ing quickly. So my advice is live with whatever growing pains we are going to go through because history tells us it will be well worth the wait.
Click to expand...
How you read my post as being in “the sky is falling category” is a mystery to me. I have a valid concern in the play and coaching (strategy) thus far. I haven’t seen the adjustments I would have expected from our coach. I think that’s a fair criticism.
 
Not sure what the scouting report Pitino was referring to but it his job and his coaches to make sure the players understand the weaknesses and strengths of the opponent.

Some think that the defense was better. Not if you look at the damage done by the 6'7 Santos who had little trouble getting his shot on drives. As an overall shooter, he is just an average player but our guys did a poor job of denying him the ball. Especially Ledlum who was too slow to guard him.

The other Dayton player who was allowed too much space was Holmes. Why was Soriano trying to challenge his dribble on the outside when he should have been a presence down low? Why is Soriano feeding Ledlum from the top of the key instead of the other way around? Ledlum missed 8 shots that were on out of control drives, one that was a first on a SJ team where he literally threw over the top of the blackboard! I've never seen a play that bad since CYO games. His 2-10 was a major reason we lost.

Jordan Dingle needs 12-15 open shots per game to be effective. He needs to get into better shooting position if he wants the ball. Like Ledlum, this is a challenging step up in competition from the soft schedule of the Ivy League. I think both can and will play better with Pitino's tutoring. However, I think a power player like Zuby may have to spell Ledlum more and not just be thought of as a backup to Soriano.

Jenkins played a good game imo but Wilcher needs more time at his point guard position because he is a quick guard that may look to get Dingle more shots.
I'm not sure how RJ Luis will affect our current deficiencies because he is a young player but I hope he can be utilized at the SF position or SG but his sample size is so small that it can go either way early on in the season.

As for Sundays game against Utah, I expect another difficult match-up size wise as they are a tall and excellent shooting team. In short, five white boys that can both jump and shoot. It would be an upset if we beat them.
 
Last edited:
Well St. John’s is now 2-2 after falling to Dayton in a 2nd half that drove fans crazy…from the refs to the lack of defense, Rick Pitino’s team is desperately searching for its identity. The minute distribution is questionable right now with some guys earning more minutes than they are getting. Join Frank and I as we give our instant reaction to Dayton



 
To me it’s very simple…we don’t have time to let these guys figure out their roles on their own. Pitino has to assign it to them. We are about to get our 3rd loss in the first 5 games tomorrow and we came a shot away from another.

Jenkins and Ledlum are absolutely steamrolling everyone else. How can you possibly find a rhythm as a team with two players dominating all the looks?

We will be much better next year with Wilcher, Taylor, Luis, Dunlap, and Ejiofor back in big roles with less learning to do early on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top