I'm gonna give it to early February.
(Charleston Classic) Dayton, Fri., Nov. 17, 2p, ESPN2
- Thread starter Knight
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Rocket
Well-known member
I tend to agree. Pitino brought in better talent but has failed to get them on the same page thus far. They definitely look like 5 guys playing for 5 different teams.....their last team. While Dayton looks like they are trying to play as a unit and exploiting St. John's individual defensive deficiencies.
Prime examples were Holmes handling the ball against Soriano. Holmes is not only the better athlete but better on the drive than Soriano and he exploited him without Pitino pulling Soriano back.
The other was the quicker Santos who took Ledlum on the dribble drive with ease.
THAT, coach Pitino, is scouting the other team's weak links on defense.
It may be that both Ledlum and Dingle are not two way players at this level and their Ivy stats now have to be viewed with suspicion given their opponents at that level.
Pitino may have to get the most out of players like Wilcher, Zuby, Jenkins, Taylor, Soriano and Luis to make up for the underwhelming play of our ivies thus far.
As Dingle and Ledlum go, so goes our season.
Mullins Revenge
Well-known member
We are exactly where we should be. We beat 2 teams we should have and lost to 2 teams that are better then us.
And I think Utah is prob better then us so I would not be surprised if we lose that one.
And I think Utah is prob better then us so I would not be surprised if we lose that one.
The season will be over before then.
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
Perhaps offensively with Luis out. But in no way are we where we should be defensively by allowing 50 second half points to an A 10 school with their starting point guard out for the season. After all, Mike Anderson isn’t coaching the team. I expected more defensively at this point in time.
Rick Pitino wants struggling Chris Ledlum to focus on defense
Rick Pitino admitted the obvious, that Chris Ledlum is searching for his game on the offensive end.
nypost.com
Other stats and things that makes the loss perplexing. While we had 3 more turnovers, we did out rebound them even on offensive glass. And some others pointed put Dayton is a team in flux given their starting PG is out for the season, and with a number of new players from low low D1 schools.
Larry Wright
Well-known member
Run offense through Soriano and Dingle. Need to incorporate Wilcher. Have to reign in severely Jenkins and Ledlum and figure out who the 6 or 7 complimentary guys to Soriano and Dingle will be.
Those complimentary guys need to be totally committed to playing D and being role players.
Not to destroy a dead horse but Dingle and to a lesser degree Alleyne have to be totally flummoxed by the reliance on Jenkins.
My worry is if Jenkins and Ledlum continue to be focal point of team that the team will totally fray and turn into what it already reminds me of the Felipe Lopez / Mahoney teams.
Those complimentary guys need to be totally committed to playing D and being role players.
Not to destroy a dead horse but Dingle and to a lesser degree Alleyne have to be totally flummoxed by the reliance on Jenkins.
My worry is if Jenkins and Ledlum continue to be focal point of team that the team will totally fray and turn into what it already reminds me of the Felipe Lopez / Mahoney teams.
I was impressed by how well Dayton attacked our defense. Exhibit A was clearing out a side of court and isolating Holmes their mobile big outside against a slower Joel to either take it to rack or dump to open guys. For some reason we did not help Joel to get Holmes to cough up the ball, so Dayton staff kept it up. All in all, Dayton is well coached.
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
Just heard Pitinos press conference. He kind of admitted that if the team doesn’t start winning and learn to play D, it’s not going to be going anywhere this year, it will be next year. Just hoping it is “this year” as another Dance-less season would be difficult to take after the anticipation and hype of this year’s team.
I hope the Traveling contingent are enjoying Charleston and the Dining and Attractions the City is know for .
The BB has been disappointing and even, RP is pissed . No denial from Rick and no “ you have to tip your hat to Dayton stuff .”
I think he was expecting a lot more from the All Ivies than what they have delivered so far . Dingle had 14 points but , we need 20 from him regularly . Plus , he’s a step slow on D . That’s a hard fix for a player in his 5 th year .
Ledlum has been disappointing on both ends of the Court . He’s also slow on D and hasn’t delivered anywhere near what a BE forward must contribute .
Taylor is slight framed but , quick and willing to mix it up . So far , I think he’s been a plus all over the Court .
Joel has put up the stats we expect but , as Pitino alluded to in his presser, “ Soriano didn’t play like he knew what Holmes was capable of .”
Joel drifted outside on offense in the 2nd half and we don’t need him there shooting elbow jumpers . And , where was our pick and roll game ? I didn’t see it . Defensively Holmes was too quick for him , especially when Joel drifted outside to guard him .
Luis returning to play has to help and adds much needed athleticism to the Team . He’s likely not yet 100 percent BB ready yet but , we can’t wait until he is .
I’m not understanding how little Pitino has played Alleyne so far . He’s gotten insignificant minutes for.a 5 th year player with a known Resume as a Shooter and decent defender .
RP is known to be loyal to his players but , continuing to play both , Dingle and Ledlum at the same time isn’t working . It’s a dilemma for Rick and he knows it . Both , these players were his prime recruits and their play so far is underwhelming . No doubting that . Their effort is not in question here .
As we saw yesterday, having both on the Court at Crunch time is giving a pass key to Guards like Santos and Reaf to drive to the hoop . We saw that in the Michigan game all night .
Lots of schools have mid Major or players that didn’t get PT like Santos at Pitt but , he showed he belonged on the big stage .. He and Holmes won the game for them down the stretch .
I think the issue for Rick will be , how do I tell Ledlum especially he is going to sit for a while ? It’s a tough decision for any Coach .
The notion that RP can correct all player deficiencies is flawed . Mostly , because 4 of our 5 starters are 5 th year players and there isn’t enough time to Coach them up to a BE standard .
As the season progresses , the loss of Slazinski is going to be more evident . Remember , he was playing for Louisville before they went bad . And ,he went to Iona to play for Rick . He can play and he’s doing well at WVA . We will get to see him first hand soon .
We all want to win and as with the impetuous girl in Willy Wonker - we want it ( success) AND we want it now!
My revised expectations and plans:
1.Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
2.Forget about Ws and tournaments;
3.give this team a chance to grow;
4. Appreciate our new coach and the talented players he brought in at the eleventh hour;
5.as stated, Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
Blessings
SS&G
Perfect !We all want to win and as with the impetuous girl in Willy Wonker - we want it ( success) AND we want it now!
My revised expectations and plans:
1.Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
2.Forget about Ws and tournaments;
3.give this team a chance to grow;
4. Appreciate our new coach and the talented players he brought in at the eleventh hour;
5.as stated, Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
Blessings
SS&G
Coach Pitino, from what I recall, has repeatedly stated that this 2023 unit is a work in progress and our January team, not our November team, will be more indicative of what we are and where we are going.
So we wait (why not) and trust this highly successful head coach - that we are fortunate to have.
The “P” words, Pitino and Patience.
Thanks -
SS&G
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
Normally I would agree but when Pitino comes in, brings in all these celebrated players, courted by many other schools and makes such statements as “St. John’s will be back and it’s going to happen fast” and “ anything less then an NCAA tournament bid would be disappointing”, it’s hard to accept a team that is underperforming and lowering expectations especially for a fan base that had such high expectations and has suffered for so long. Yes we all will continue to support the team but I for one will maintain the high standards this staff has proclaimed from the get go.We all want to win and as with the impetuous girl in Willy Wonker - we want it ( success) AND we want it now!
My revised expectations and plans:
1.Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
2.Forget about Ws and tournaments;
3.give this team a chance to grow;
4. Appreciate our new coach and the talented players he brought in at the eleventh hour;
5.as stated, Just enjoy the season as it unfolds
Blessings
SS&G
What are you some of you in here thinking. Its literally game 4 of the season with a team that is brand new and a few of our starters were injured up until a few weeks ago. Some of you are second guessing Pitino who by the way has won EVERYwhere including IONA. Granted he is NO MIKE ANDERSON who never had a losing record lol but i guess he will do lol.
Sim is a better player at point then jenkins from what i can see, but jenkins isnt as horrible as some of you tend to believe. From what i see this team has improved after each game playing more defense on thursday and friday was a great game to watch. Just think of what our team last year would of done against drayton or even michigan?
So just relax . Even when the Yankees were winning world series they always stunk in april. and yes Pitino is our version of a World Series coach.
Sim is a better player at point then jenkins from what i can see, but jenkins isnt as horrible as some of you tend to believe. From what i see this team has improved after each game playing more defense on thursday and friday was a great game to watch. Just think of what our team last year would of done against drayton or even michigan?
So just relax . Even when the Yankees were winning world series they always stunk in april. and yes Pitino is our version of a World Series coach.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Holding the team to the high standard set by the staff is a recipe for disappointment. Every coach hypes up his team early on. Then they roll out the balls and things change. Injuries or lack of team chemistry blow up even good planning. The chemistry issues can be overcome by playing together. What concerns me is what seems like a lack of overall quickness on both ends of the floor. Not surprising Michigan was more athletic, but Dayton made our guys look slow at almost every position. I'm sure CP is well aware of this, and will have to make adjustments to prevent us from the runs that Michigan and Dayton made in games where we initially looked like we belonged.
The entire difference was at the line. They shot ten more foul shots and had nine more points from the line. Won by seven. The refs rewarded them for continually driving the basket, any contact on a drive was a whistle. Unless your name was Taylor.
But no, game was not lost because of refs, you need to play through that type of whistle. And our lack of quickness was a factor in the foul discrepancy as well.
Larry Wright
Well-known member
I expect Coach to turn things around. And if he can’t no one can. Literally wouldn’t want any other coach.
With that being said, we all thought this team would make the tournament and actually maybe win a game. That now does not appear as if it will come close to happening.
We got smoked by an unranked team playing without its coach. Lost to a good but not ranked team, barely beat a pretty bad team and couldn’t put away Stony Brook. And even though it was an exhibition, lost to Pace. I went to Pace and didn’t even know they had a basketball team. This is actually true as they were the only athletic team that was not based at the main campus.
I do believe starting next year we will be fine but people have a right to be upset at what appears to be another lost year.
With that being said, we all thought this team would make the tournament and actually maybe win a game. That now does not appear as if it will come close to happening.
We got smoked by an unranked team playing without its coach. Lost to a good but not ranked team, barely beat a pretty bad team and couldn’t put away Stony Brook. And even though it was an exhibition, lost to Pace. I went to Pace and didn’t even know they had a basketball team. This is actually true as they were the only athletic team that was not based at the main campus.
I do believe starting next year we will be fine but people have a right to be upset at what appears to be another lost year.
I remember what we looked like under Jarvis when we had Artest and Postell and Barkley and Bootsy et al and how we looked after they were gone. Current team does not know one another's offense strengths and coach has to work on team defense first. Ledlum in hi lo post combo with Joel might be better than current mess. Checked on-line, Wusu now listed as 20 pounds lighter.