...Can we make the Tournament?

As of today I don't think winning the next 4 and reaching the BET finals (as a 6 seed) would definitely give us a bid. It'd be enough to be considered, but I doubt we'd be a lock. Maybe 50-50 or slightly better odds.

That makes me feel a bit better about the DePaul, Nova and Butler losses. No single loss is likely to keep us out. Next year we need to have a complete season. This year we only played well for a 10 game stretch or so. Our OOC this year killed out NET and gave us 0 quality wins. Can't have a repeat of such a weak schedule with close margins next year. 

NIT is still very much in play. I think we need to win 1 more game to have a chance, 2 to feel decent about our chances, 3 to feel very confident about our chances.

I'll view the Providence game on Wednesday as a potential NIT play-in game. 
 
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NIT was not THE big Tournament into the 1960's. From the early 50's on the NCAA Tournment Champion was THE national Champion not an NIT Champion.

There was a time, much earlier, when the NIT was bigger than the NCAA, and there was a time when a team could play in both, also when the winners of each faced off.

When the NCAA field was much smaller, there was a great lustre to the NIT because great teams got to the NIT many of which were better than the bottom half of the field in the NCAAs.

Back in the really old days, the National Champion was voted on by the sportswriters, like College football was for many years. (Maybe called the Helms Award, that possibly SJU won a million years ago??)

The year Al McGuire took his team to the NIT instead of the NCAAs was an aberration.

Al's team that year was arguably top 4 in the country. But remember these were Wooden's dynasty years too!

Al was totally pissed that his team's placement was unfair and bellyached so much that there was really bad blood between him the Committee and Adolph Rupp the legendary coach of Kentucky. So much so that Rupp made disparaging comments about Al, Marquette and NYC where Al was from. Remember Rupp was not a big fan of the teams in the northeast, where BB integration happened much faster than down south. Wasn't it Rupp and KY that refused to play a Lapchick SJU team that was not "all-white"?
 
I hope, like most of you, hope we get into the NIT- think an NCAA berth is gone barring a run to the BET finals and other bubble teams faltering. 

Given the potential return of all contributing pieces this season (even including Dunn)- natural progression of our underclassmen, and hopefully someone that can bang down low (whether its Stanley/Traore or a revelation from Josh/Moore - or a transfer) - I'm confident we should be able to make some noise next year- be ranked for a good portion of the year. 

A post-season tourney this year will be a very valuable experience for this group.
 
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During the 1940s the NIT was at least equal to the NCAA because teams preferred to play in MSG for a week instead of cities where the NCAA was held. That all changed in 1951 when the NCAA expanded from eight to sixteen teams and the college point shaving scandal broke.
MSG and NYC bookies were blamed for corrupting innocent college players and many teams would no longer play at MSG.  That started the NIT slipping and it just continued to slip as the NCAA slowly expanded over the years to sixty eight.
 
BrookJersey, I very mildly dissent from the NIT / NCAA  discussion . You are 100 percent correct that the NCAA was always the National Champion .  But , back late 50's -early 60's , I recall little interest in the Northeast about the NCAA tourney .  I don't even recall if the Games were televised live in NY back then . Sure , Cinn had Oscar Robertson and Ohio State had Jerry Lucas and John Havlicek but , NY TV rarely showed games outside the East Coast . ECAC territory . The NiT always drew big in NY because it was at the Garden and the NY Press covered it extensively . Plus , back in those days , schools like St John's , ND , Dayton , Providence , Nova didn't play in Conferences . They were independents and there was a bias against Teams not in the Big Conferences . Hence , why the NIT was highly sought after by the East Coast  teams and Catholic Schools like Duquesne and Canisiuis , St Louis , etc . Just my opinion . And , unti l UCLA and Jabbar , there wasn't a lot of BB on TV that would show teams from the West Coast .  The NIT was big until the NCAA expanded their fields . 
 
Cincinnati vs Loyola of Chicago overtime game gave NCAA a big boost, stopping U Cinn from third straight national title.  

All time sports trivia answer is still Tom Thacker, only person to win NCAA, ABA, and NBA championships.
 
this is my remembering the marquette where do i go decision.
al m always let his players decide which tourney to enter. they voted nit.
the next year the team again voted nit as they said we want to go back to nyc and win that thing.
al nixed the vote and went with the ncaa.
the reason for the veto was because from year one to year two, the money given to those making the ncaa skyrocketed.
the first ever nationally televised college basketball game was ucla-alcindor versus houston (houseton)
when the tv biggies digested that game, the tv gurus awoke to the popularity of college basketball.
and every year after that iconinc game the ncaa money grew exponentially over the nit money.
as the networks threw money at the ncaa tourney.
 
SLYFOXX1968" post=422254 said:
BrookJersey, I very mildly dissent from the NIT / NCAA  discussion . You are 100 percent correct that the NCAA was always the National Champion .  But , back late 50's -early 60's , I recall little interest in the Northeast about the NCAA tourney .  I don't even recall if the Games were televised live in NY back then . Sure , Cinn had Oscar Robertson and Ohio State had Jerry Lucas and John Havlicek but , NY TV rarely showed games outside the East Coast . ECAC territory . The NiT always drew big in NY because it was at the Garden and the NY Press covered it extensively . Plus , back in those days , schools like St John's , ND , Dayton , Providence , Nova didn't play in Conferences . They were independents and there was a bias against Teams not in the Big Conferences . Hence , why the NIT was highly sought after by the East Coast  teams and Catholic Schools like Duquesne and Canisiuis , St Louis , etc . Just my opinion . And , unti l UCLA and Jabbar , there wasn't a lot of BB on TV that would show teams from the West Coast .  The NIT was big until the NCAA expanded their fields . 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not trying to put too fine a point on this NIT/NCAA discussion, but see Enright's post; up until 1951 perhaps you were correct, but not into the 50's and espcially not the early 60's. 1970 Marquette and Al McGuire and Walt Frazier's So. Illinois Salukis in 1967 were noteworthy NIT teams.
 
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section10" post=422271 said:
this is my remembering the marquette where do i go decision.
al m always let his players decide which tourney to enter. they voted nit.
the next year the team again voted nit as they said we want to go back to nyc and win that thing.
al nixed the vote and went with the ncaa.
the reason for the veto was because from year one to year two, the money given to those making the ncaa skyrocketed.
the first ever nationally televised college basketball game was ucla-alcindor versus houston (houseton)
when the tv biggies digested that game, the tv gurus awoke to the popularity of college basketball.
and every year after that iconinc game the ncaa money grew exponentially over the nit money.
as the networks threw money at the ncaa tourney.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Marquette's 1970 decision all based on being sent out of their home region to Texas.

"Al McGuire turned down a bid to the NCAA Midwest Regional in Fort Worth, Texas, after being denied an invitation to the Mideast Regional that was being held closer to home." MU Scoop.
 
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Al McGuire , of course , was a Redmen player and Alum . He grew up in Queens , the Rockaways i believe . He grew up and played during the NIT heyday . It was natural for him to have allegiances to NY and the NIT . It's true he didn't like the assignment the NCAA gave him but , he had the support of his school and players . The NCAA in those days only included the Conference Winner or , the team that won the League tournament . As a result of upsets and the best team excluded from the NCAA , the NIT wasn't regarded as a second clsss tourney . And , like I said before , if your school was a Independent like us , the NCAA often ignored very 
good teams . As I mentioned the NIT was still a major item well past the 50's . But , discussion is always healthy . Frankly , growing up as a youngster in the late 50's and 60's I wasn't as excited by the NCAA's . Of course , that all changes when the NCAA expanded their fields . It was a severe blow to the NIT . Now , the NCAA owns the NIT . Things change . 
 
St. John's is in 1 bracket (out of 134) and overall is the 17th (and final) team out of the bracket. That means we'd be 1 game out of the NIT, though of course we need to see if there's any movement tomorrow.

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
 
Adam" post=422783 said:
St. John's is in 1 bracket (out of 134) and overall is the 17th (and final) team out of the bracket. That means we'd be 1 game out of the NIT, though of course we need to see if there's any movement tomorrow.

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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So, just playing hypotheticals here...

As of right now if if St. John's beats Seton Hall (a home game which they should be favored in).  Then if Xavier loses to Marq on the road, St. John's will then play Seton Hall again, and at this point Seton Hall would have lost 4 games in a row, so you'd like St. John's in that game again especially in New York.  Say they win that game, that give them two Q2 wins.  And that potentially sets up a Q1 match-up against #1 seed Villanova.  Would beating Villanova in the Semi's be enough to slip St. John's in the tournament?  Another thing to factor in, getting in the last 4 will be huge this year, considering those teams will be used as replacements if another team in the field tests positive for covid.
 
I dont think it will be enough.  It would beat better to beat uconn in the tourney then seton hall.  But on the flip side, u would rather play seton hall then uconn.

If st johns draws seton hall then a non gillispe nova team, its a gift from the gods and not a difficult path to get to the big east championship game.

And if you get there, u might as well win it so there are no questions if you are in or not.
 
Making Plays" post=422794 said:
Adam" post=422783 said:
St. John's is in 1 bracket (out of 134) and overall is the 17th (and final) team out of the bracket. That means we'd be 1 game out of the NIT, though of course we need to see if there's any movement tomorrow.

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Click to expand...
So, just playing hypotheticals here...

As of right now if if St. John's beats Seton Hall (a home game which they should be favored in).  Then if Xavier loses to Marq on the road, St. John's will then play Seton Hall again, and at this point Seton Hall would have lost 4 games in a row, so you'd like St. John's in that game again especially in New York.  Say they win that game, that give them two Q2 wins.  And that potentially sets up a Q1 match-up against #1 seed Villanova.  Would beating Villanova in the Semi's be enough to slip St. John's in the tournament?  Another thing to factor in, getting in the last 4 will be huge this year, considering those teams will be used as replacements if another team in the field tests positive for covid.
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  [attachment=1963]72CAEC52-8A36-48DA-B41A-901A2B889937.jpeg[/attachment]
 
Duke of Earlington" post=422796 said:
I dont think it will be enough.  It would beat better to beat uconn in the tourney then seton hall.  But on the flip side, u would rather play seton hall then uconn.

If st johns draws seton hall then a non gillispe nova team, its a gift from the gods and not a difficult path to get to the big east championship game.

And if you get there, u might as well win it so there are no questions if you are in or not.
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our starting point guard isn't even healthy right now but yea sure okay let's pretend nova without Gillepsie is gonna be a walk in the park lmaooo you guys set yourself up for disappointment with these takes 
 
Jack Williams" post=422800 said:
Duke of Earlington" post=422796 said:
I dont think it will be enough.  It would beat better to beat uconn in the tourney then seton hall.  But on the flip side, u would rather play seton hall then uconn.

If st johns draws seton hall then a non gillispe nova team, its a gift from the gods and not a difficult path to get to the big east championship game.

And if you get there, u might as well win it so there are no questions if you are in or not.
Click to expand...
our starting point guard isn't even healthy right now but yea sure okay let's pretend nova without Gillepsie is gonna be a walk in the park lmaooo you guys set yourself up for disappointment with these takes 
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No one is saying its a walk in the park but seton hall/no gillipse nova is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier then ucoon/creighton.

Its a no brainer what part of the bracket is a much easier path.
 
Duke of Earlington" post=422801 said:
Jack Williams" post=422800 said:
Duke of Earlington" post=422796 said:
I dont think it will be enough.  It would beat better to beat uconn in the tourney then seton hall.  But on the flip side, u would rather play seton hall then uconn.

If st johns draws seton hall then a non gillispe nova team, its a gift from the gods and not a difficult path to get to the big east championship game.

And if you get there, u might as well win it so there are no questions if you are in or not.
Click to expand...
our starting point guard isn't even healthy right now but yea sure okay let's pretend nova without Gillepsie is gonna be a walk in the park lmaooo you guys set yourself up for disappointment with these takes 
Click to expand...
No one is saying its a walk in the park but seton hall/no gillipse nova is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier then ucoon/creighton.

Its a no brainer what part of the bracket is a much easier path.
Click to expand...
easier path? No question. 

but I'm still very iffy on that path as well for a couple of reasons.

1) I don't like the idea of playing seton hall a few days after potentially beating them.. it's just a tough postition to be in. They'll make the adjustments, they'll have revenge fresh on their minds. It's just a tough one. 

2) Nova without Gillepsie scares me because I think it's gonna force them to lean on Justin Moore who I think is their most talented player. He just isn't used as much because Gillepsie is the focal point. No doubt they'll miss Gillepsie but if they fully unlock Justin Moore this next week or so that could be worrisome. I wouldn't be overly confident in either potential game. But a better path for sure 
 
Let's say we're 17 spots out of the Dance as of tonight. Beating Hall 2X and Nova I'm not sure would jump us that many spots. That said, there is generally a surprise team chosen each year so winning more could only help. 

Right now I'm just thinking about paths for the NIT and BET. The Hall game is really huge as it could potentially clinch both a BET 1st round bye and an NIT spot. Win that first to make this a successful season, then dream about other scenarios after. 
 
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