...Can we make the Tournament?

[Moose]

I wonder how many time the NCAA winners have missed the tournament the next year.  Have to think its pretty low number.  

Radical idea but what about the NIT winner getting a bid to the following year's NCAA tournament?  At least then there is something for the teams to play for?  At worst case they get a play in game or something maybe.

I'm bored its been almost a year now.  Running out of things to do. /media/kunena/emoticons/w00t.png

 

[ADORAZ]

I'm not concerned about a Robert Morris repeat since there won't any auto-bid conference winners. Every team in there will be solid and there can't be any embarrassing losses (unless we lose by like 30 which wouldn't shock me lol). Also, that Johnnies team had high expectations which they didn't meet and were a top seed (one of the first teams out of the Tournament). This team isn't even sniffing the bubble at this point and will likely make it as a 3 seed (playing a 2) or a 4 seed (playing a 1).

I understand when bubble teams just miss out on the Tournament and then need to play a medicore mid major, but that won't apply to our team this year. 

Plus, if we don't make it then that likely means we would end the season with a 2-7 record or something like that. I couldn't call this a successful year at that point. 

 

[espken]

Radical idea but what about the NIT winner getting a bid to the following year's NCAA tournament?  At least then there is something for the teams to play for?  At worst case they get a play in game or something maybe.

 

Only problem with that is if a senior laden team wins the NIT, then you would have a rebuilding team get overwhelmed the following season. Regarding the NIT, the coaches in favor, feel it to be beneficial and possibly a spring board to the future. For coaches that do not, they simply decline. If CMA feels it to be beneficial, then by all means, roll the balls out.

 

[Moose]

Radical idea but what about the NIT winner getting a bid to the following year's NCAA tournament?  At least then there is something for the teams to play for?  At worst case they get a play in game or something maybe.


 

Only problem with that is if a senior laden team wins the NIT, then you would have a rebuilding team get overwhelmed the following season. Regarding the NIT, the coaches in favor, feel it to be beneficial and possibly a spring board to the future. For coaches that do not, they simply decline. If CMA feels it to be beneficial, then by all means, roll the balls out.

How often do teams turn it down? I remember Gtown did once and made a spectacle of it.  Teams participate but just seems like a farce.  Also specifically this year the NIT would be a loss leader in terms of budgets.  Can't think teams would be jumping over hurdles to play this year of all years.

 

[Moose]

More than I thought :

There have been nine times in which the tournament did not include the reigning champion (the previous year's winner):

• 1978 champion Kentucky went 19–12 in 1979. The Wildcats accepted an invitation to the National Invitation Tournament, losing their first-round game in overtime to Clemson, 68–67.
• Both 1979 champion Michigan State (12–15) and 1979 runner up Indiana State (16–11) failed to qualify for the 1980 NCAA Tournament. Furthermore, neither was invited to the National Invitation Tournament, and Michigan State is the only team to finish the subsequent season with a losing record. Following the 1979 NCAA tournament, Indiana State lost Larry Bird to graduation, and Magic Johnson left Michigan State after his sophomore season to enter the NBA draft.
• 1983 champion North Carolina State went 19–13 in 1984. The Wolfpack accepted an invitation to the National Invitation Tournament, losing their first-round game to Florida State, 74–71 in Reynolds Coliseum.
• 1986 champion Louisville went 18–14 in 1987. The team declined an invitation to the postseason National Invitation Tournament.
• 1988 champion Kansas went 19–12 in 1989. However, the team was ineligible for participation in the 1989 NCAA Tournament due to NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations.
• 2007 (and 2006) champion Florida and 2007 runner up Ohio State both failed to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in 2008. Both accepted invitations to that year's postseason National Invitation Tournament, and both made it to the semifinals. Florida fell to Massachusetts in the semifinals, and Ohio State beat UMass in the NIT Championship Game to win the tournament.
• 2009 champion North Carolina went 20–17 in 2010.[58][59] The Tar Heels accepted an invitation to the National Invitation Tournament, and reached the finals, losing to Dayton.
• 2012 champion Kentucky went 21–11 in 2013 and failed to make that tournament. The Wildcats were invited to the National Invitation Tournament, where they lost to Robert Morris in the first round of the tournament.
• 2014 champion UConn went 20–14 in 2015 and failed to make that tournament. The Huskies were invited to the National Invitation Tournament and lost to Arizona State in the first round.

 

[ADORAZ]

Georgetown declined it 19 years ago (2002) but have been in it in recent years. That used to be a thing before the NCAA bought the rights to it in 2005, but I don't think anybody really declines it at this point. I'm pretty sure nobody has declined it during the past decade. 

The most recent NIT (2019) had teams such as Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Clemson, Memphis, Indiana and Creighton. Look at where most of those teams are at today. None of them regretted participating I'm sure. 

St. John's frankly may be one of the weaker brands in it this year. In no way is the NIT beneath us. Only way we don't do it is if we have some serious financial issues, but even then there is ESPN TV money involved. 

 

[espken]

Per Wikipedia, take it FWIW

David Thompson, an All-American player from North Carolina State, called the NIT "a loser's tournament" in 1975. NC State, which had been the previous year's NCAA champion, refused to play in the tournament that year, following the precedent set by ACC rival Maryland the previous season after losing the Atlantic Coast Conference championship gameto the top-ranked Wolfpack. In succeeding years, other teams such as Oklahoma State, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Georgetown, and LSU[42][43] have declined to play in the NIT when they did not make the NCAA tournament. One such team was Maryland; after being rejected by the NCAA selection committee in 2006, head coach Gary Williams announced that 19-11 Maryland would not go to the NIT, only to be told that the university had previously agreed to use Comcast Center as a venue for the NIT. The Terrapins were eliminated in the first round by the Manhattan College Jaspers. In 2008, however, Williams announced that if invited, the Terps would play, because it would serve as a chance to further develop six freshman players on his squad and to give senior forward James Gist more exposure.

 

[L J S A]

Too lazy to do the research, but I feel like South Carolina went to it two years in a row, then used the experience as a springboard for a deep NCAA run.

I think you absolutely take the NIT bid if your QB for the foreseeable is just a freshman and one of the best players in the conference is a soph. I would play Wusu a ton of minutes too if we get an invite.

 

[Lambsbball]

Coach Anderson is 4-3 in the NIT. He's 9-9 in the NCAA Tournament.

Mike's last Arkansas team went to the NIT. I'm confident he'd accept an invite for SJ.

 

[espken]

Coach Anderson is 4-3 in the NIT. He's 9-9 in the NCAA Tournament.

Mike's last Arkansas team went to the NIT. I'm confident he'd accept an invite for SJ.

0-1 against SJU (UAB 2003) /media/kunena/emoticons/cool.png

 

[Lambsbball]

Coach Anderson won't ever forget his first experience at Carnesecca Arena./media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

 

[mjmaherjr]

1988-89 my freshman year we had a pretty young team make the NIT and win it and pretty good building block for the next few years. Jason Buchanon, Malik Sealy , Rob Werdann Jayson Williams etc that year

 

[otis]

Humorous that some in this thread seemingly believe that St. John's is too good for the NIT.

 

[Moose]

Humerour that some in this thread seemingly believe that St. John's is too good for the NIT.

Genuinely curious who?  Of course you could respond to them directly and not passive aggressively like so but I digress.  I also don't see anyone who said SJU is too good for the NIT.

It's not a question of being too good for the NIT.  Which I know was the 'thing' back in the day.  These days however it means your the 69th best at something (hold the jokes).  

That gives new meaning to the definition of a participation award.

 

[beast of the east]

It was my understanding that teams can no longer decline a bid to the NIT.

Declining a bid became in vogue when the NCAA field was much smaller and excluded teams felt they were in play for the ncaa championship.   I believe al McGuire and Marquette declined a bid under those circumstances. 

That being said,  my feeling hasnt changed.  Our NCAA play in game was against a 12 point underdog DePaul, and we showed we don't quite belong yet.

 

[redmanwest]

I agree that it seems we're a year away, but the mid-season glimpses of what we can be were great and a cause for optimism.  Unless someting miraculous happens the NIT is (hopefully) in the offing. 

There is NO DOWNSIDE to playing more games and getting some tourney experience for a young team.  It should not be viewed as a consolation.  It should be viewed as a potential learnig experience.  It would hopefully whet the team's appetite for the big dance and give them a huge incentive for getting to the next step up (and maybe putting a helathy chip on their shoulders). 

 

[NCJohnnie]

If we win our last two at home could easily see us finishing ahead of Xavier who finish with Creighton at home and Marquette & Gtown on the road and possibly tied with Hall for 4th place as they play us and UCONN.  Neither of our last two will be easy but we are certainly not out of contention for a first rounf bye in BET.
 

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Following up on NC Johnnie, we have an outside shot; but if not, I like the NIT, it is definitively not on par with the CBI, or whatever those other non-televised things are called. Probably won't even exist this year.

The NIT now owned by the NCAA probably doesn't allow teams to decline, but this year that may be out the window because declining over covid may be permitted..

Beast, I think the Al McGuire story goes that he refused an NCAA bid, and went to the competing NIT instead becuase of where the NCAA was placing the Marquette team, but I could be totally wrong about that, since I am no BB historian.

 

[lawmanfan]

Humerour that some in this thread seemingly believe that St. John's is too good for the NIT.

Genuinely curious who?  Of course you could respond to them directly and not passive aggressively like so but I digress.  I also don't see anyone who said SJU is too good for the NIT.

It's not a question of being too good for the NIT.  Which I know was the 'thing' back in the day.  These days however it means your the 69th best at something (hold the jokes).  

That gives new meaning to the definition of a participation award.

 

I know it's a bit of a nitpick, but going to the NIT probably means that you are (at best) the 45th or so best, not the 69th best, as a result of the automatic bids that go to some of the low-level conferences. 

And also, you never really know who's "best" until you play the games.  Would it surprise anyone if you put the NIT teams into the NCAA tournament that every  year a couple of them made a run?

 

[Moose]

Humerour that some in this thread seemingly believe that St. John's is too good for the NIT.

Genuinely curious who?  Of course you could respond to them directly and not passive aggressively like so but I digress.  I also don't see anyone who said SJU is too good for the NIT.

It's not a question of being too good for the NIT.  Which I know was the 'thing' back in the day.  These days however it means your the 69th best at something (hold the jokes).  

That gives new meaning to the definition of a participation award.


 

I know it's a bit of a nitpick, but going to the NIT probably means that you are (at best) the 45th or so best, not the 69th best, as a result of the automatic bids that go to some of the low-level conferences. 

And also, you never really know who's "best" until you play the games.  Would it surprise anyone if you put the NIT teams into the NCAA tournament that every  year a couple of them made a run?

You are correct.  45th, 69th.  All the same to me though.

But do you think the Washington Huskies have a banner celebrating their 2019 win on December 21st in the Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl?  Outside of the BCS games Bowl games are glorified exhibitions.  Schools maybe break even but most lose money.  Players now have been choosing not to play.  I guess its just one of those cost of doing business things where the NCAA will keep it alive.  It pairs its TV rights to ESPN with womens tournament, and baseball and other sports.

And yes many of those NIT teams could make a run I'm sure.  But they didnt do enough to get a bid so its moot point.  Sure the NIT when I was a student was fun.  But that was a long time ago now.  The little luster it had back then is even less now.