redmen4life
Well-known member
I'm expecting a loss (but i hope we win).
What happens if we lose by a bucket? Will the narrative still be that we are a XX amount of points from being a top 5/10 team? That we're right there. That we will get better..
Butler, Sat., Jan. 4 , 2p, FS-1
- Thread starter Knight
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What happens if we lose by a bucket? Will the narrative still be that we are a XX amount of points from being a top 5/10 team? That we're right there. That we will get better..
For reference the timeout was when we were on defense, down 1, and still needing a stop or perhaps being doing by 2 or 3.
You can criticize Pitino here. Plenty do.
Think the main point behind mikes post was to just give some perspective which I think can be needed sometimes in the midst of a long, stressful season. Don't agree with how he ended the post but still
with that said, I don’t share the idea that context of past coaches doesn’t matter when evaluating current coach. Cause to me it’s not just about the coach himself and the job he’s doing with the team, it’s about the state of the entire program. That’s why I also liked a follow up post Mike had about the attendance and the tickets being “hotter” this year. I care about that stuff. For some, it boils down to wins and losses and what takes place on the court. I respect the hell out of that trust me. A lot of me feels that way too, I’m extremely competitive.
But I love St. John’s. Even before I went there. I love it. And I do recognize and appreciate that the brand is a lot stronger than it’s been in years, IMO. And I appreciate Pitino for the work he’s put in there and for the winning he’s done on the court so far. Hell yea I have my critiques regarding his game to game decisions and his press conference choices but he brings a lot of juice to the table with those things.
And I know you have your critiques of Pitino late in the season last year (mainly that Dunlap should have played more in the UConn game) but I think it is fair to say that our team improved a ton by February and March and we were playing at a high level. It sucks we didn't make the tournament but seeing that roster come together like that makes me optimistic about this year despite what we have seen lately. We will see, though, this stuff has to play out
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redmen4life
Well-known member
correct. but then he should've called a TO after we stole the ball. instead he yelled at RJ for not passing the ball to Zuby for a three when we were down 1. Crazy.
Nailed it
Fair enough, regarding your feeling on the relevance of past coaches, I see your point but don’t necessarily share it, I certainly disagree with Mike’s point regarding them in relation to Pitino.
Specific to last year, my feeling on Dunlap’s non-use in the 2nd half of the UConn game was regarding it as a symptom rather than the disease.
My biggest gripes are two fold, the absolute lack of role definition on either team, other than Jenkins, reflected in the shuffling of starters almost game to game, any discernible substitution patterns, never mind roles and responsibilities, everyone fires 3’s, whenever; for example, IMO, the most glaring one is the decision to go with two point guards with very different styles and skill sets this year.
The second gripe is Pitino’s seemingly uncontrollable penchant for throwing players and the team under the bus publicly. He is the boss, good leaders, IMO, take the heat publicly and do what they have to do to fix it privately. Old school maybe but that’s what I think, others may disagree,
Finally, I find this idea that Pitino should be above reproach because SJU hired shitty coaches forever or because of his HOF career prior to coming here absolutely absurd.
SJUDave
Well-known member
Yea I hear you, there's only so many times we can keep saying that...after a sample size the "we only lost 3 games by 5 pts" turns into we can't close games and get over the hump late...etc
SJUDave
Well-known member
That's 1 play...you made it sound like the entire team is defiant to what Pitino is asking...
I agree that because we have had a number of unsuccessful coaches doesn’t make Pitino a good coach. I don’t agree it’s not a relevant data point as I would rather have an employee that is an average performer then a terrible one. Not that I think Pitino is average.
If you are talking about the UCONN game in the BET, I was there but I can’t recall how Dunlap was used. I found the game to be very enjoyable despite the fact that we lost and felt it was one of the best games we played all season. Ultimately I believe we lost because UCONN was the better team but clearly agree we underachieved at times last year.
I completely agree with your points on the lineups and the structure of the team and how Richmond and Smith are not a good backcourt combination. Its a hard problem to solve as we have limited options but would like to hear more about how you would solve this problem particularly with Brady out.
Calling out players in public and playing mind games with them does seem unprofessional. As to whether it has any positive impact is hard to quantify.
You are old school and no reason to apologize for it. As I get older I see things differently as well. I also think that seeing value in new tools like analytics is important as well.
SJUDave
Well-known member
I mean Marquette is better than St. John's right now, there's no real arguing against it so that doesn't really prove anything. Discrediting the Providence win is foolish. Sure they aren't great, and they don't have Hopkins but road wins matter regardless if they are against DePaul, PC or anyone. You came back from down 16 on the road, don't just wash that away.
I don't think what you're saying is wrong in regards to wanting to be further along at this point, thinking that having Rick here would absolve a lot of the struggles. But growth does take time, development and culture takes time, even more so in the transfer portal / mercenary era.
The season is happening in waves, trends...right now the trend is elite defense, anemic three point shooting. At thins point you have to find ways to either get fewer 3 point shots but quality looks which means running actual plays to get open 3s, or, shoot yourself out of it. Both ways can be dangerous...or they can prove fruitful. Get 2 Aaron Scott threes off screens to fall and confidence rises, get a Simeon transition three on the road to take the lead and you could unlock so much...basketball is so mental, it's why I have half jokingly said on the podcast they should bring in a psychologist perhaps to just get these guys somewhat out of their heads.
As we learned last year, the committee doesn’t really value close losses
Think back to the last L to UConn and how good they were. Took a miraculous effort by the National Champions to beat us. I don't believe this team could play that well.
Defiant? That's pretty harsh and not what Pitino said. He said there are several problems with the team...three point shots...free throws...and sometimes they don't listen. He then pointed out the final play as an example. He didn't talk about a mutiny...and we shouldn't either.
Ignoring the coach is a total recipe for losing...especially a coach with Pitino's credentials. Turns out Zuby made the only threes in the game (If my memory serves me correctly.) If he missed, there was the possibility of a long rebound...especially with four Creighton players in the paint at the time. Oh, well. If Luis had been fouled, he might have missed the two free throws leading to another discussion here.
If we could shoot free throws we might be undefeated. Now, we can't, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. But people act like we are terrible. Good chance we are 17-3 in a few weeks.
He is only 57??!! I thought he was 70.
Many top prograns have a part or Full time sport psychologist available. Jay Wright was a huge advocate of this...they had a full time one on staff abd articles were written
Very fair
Actually this guy made the final two sports psych cut for SJU, excellent screening process;
SJU Center Court
Active member
Agree. It's still early but tomorrow at Xavier could be turning point of the season (posiitive or negative).
Hope Wilcher is not benched and he shows some maturity on the court.