Around the Big East

ADORAZ said:
They're separating the football and basketball TV contracts, Nova vs. UConn or St. John's vs Georgetown I think would be more valuable for a TV contract than most other Big 12 basketball games (based on current TV ratings).

Further, adding the top Big East schools would not only eliminate a competing conference, it'd free up MSG and they'd be positioned to air a very lucrative tournament.

I'm not saying it'll definitely happen (basketball-only schools to the Big 12), I do think Yormark wants it to (he's already gone after Gonzaga) but convincing the presidents is another story.

Sadly they can probably take MSG with just UConn and not St. John's, but a full return to relevance would certainly help our case.
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Just out of curiosity. The Big East is under contract with MSG to host the tournament there through 2032. Are you thinking the Big 12 would come in after that? Or the contract would somehow be voided in the best term if UConn leaves?
 
room112 said:
Just out of curiosity. The Big East is under contract with MSG to host the tournament there through 2032. Are you thinking the Big 12 would come in after that? Or the contract would somehow be voided in the best term if UConn leaves?
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I don't think that info is public, but I'm almost positive that there would be a reopening clause in the contract for if team(s) leave. I'm not certain if just one team would trigger that, but my guess is one would be enough to. That's not to say the contract would immediately become void, but still not good.

What's scary too about this is the Big 12, with a UConn addition, could potentially make an offer by as early as 2026 when the contract reopens. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, and I don't think it'd be a guarantee MSG takes it then, but once they add eastern ACC teams and have double the inventory that the Big East does, I don't see any way we could retain them.

UConn leaving would also decrease our TV contract payments, not just overall but for each school individually. It would be a very, very big deal sadly, and it's critical that St. John's does everything possible to have a seat at the table when all is said and done.
 
ADORAZ said:
I don't think that info is public, but I'm almost positive that there would be a reopening clause in the contract for if team(s) leave. I'm not certain if just one team would trigger that, but my guess is one would be enough to. That's not to say the contract would immediately become void, but still not good.

What's scary too about this is the Big 12, with a UConn addition, could potentially make an offer by as early as 2026 when the contract reopens. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, and I don't think it'd be a guarantee MSG takes it then, but once they add eastern ACC teams and have double the inventory that the Big East does, I don't see any way we could retain them.

UConn leaving would also decrease our TV contract payments, not just overall but for each school individually. It would be a very, very big deal sadly, and it's critical that St. John's does everything possible to have a seat at the table when all is said and done.
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The base of the BIG12 (16) is in the southwest. Those hillbillies don't want to come to NYC for a basketball tournament. They like Kansas City just fine.
 
tom in salem said:
The base of the BIG12 (16) is in the southwest. Those hillbillies don't want to come to NYC for a basketball tournament. They like Kansas City just fine.
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If they add only UConn (and the only nearby schools are Cincinnati, UConn, and WVU), then yeah the Big East may be fine. Big 12 would have a lot of advantages (including inventory) over the BE, but proximity most likely would be enough for the BE to keep MSG.

Once the ACC implodes and Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, VT, etc. join the Big 12... that's totally different. Some of the schools in the middle of nowhere may resist MSG, but there would be more money to be made and that'll win out.
 
Jack Williams said:
I don't doubt it has not hurt the conference, what I am skeptical about is that the inclusion of Rutgers has benefitted the conference enough, that the big 12 would look at them, and think it is a good idea to prioritize a Uconn over a Duke for example. Or even a UConn over an NC State.

Though this is a tricky conversation because schools with solid football are obviously graded on a huge curve in terms of viability

The other thing that breaks my brain when discussing this topic, is I am used to there being some sort of limit to how many schools can be in a conference. Those days seem over. Whats stopping the big 12 from poaching half of the ACC, and then poaching half of the Big East as a basketball only division? With Uconn being the lucky school from the BE that gets a piece of the football money too
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You can be skeptical but the addition of Rutgers (and as mentioned by dk423 Maryland) greatly benefitted the Big Ten by them having a presence in the NY Metropolitan and the DMV markets which greatly enhanced the conference’s media rights deals, advertising and exposure (their network 24/7 on major cable outlets in those markets) It also did not hurt their football brand and picked up schools that fit their academic profiles. Not to mention those programs have some decent non-revenue/olympic sports. It has been nothing but a win win for the conference who probably has the best or next best media deal out there (I forget whose is better, the SEC or theirs and the ACC’s and Big 12’s are not even a close 3rd and 4th which is why Clemson and FSU are in court trying to get out of the ACC with UNC, Miami and UVa watching closely).

In fact, it worked out so well for the Big Ten, they decided go to the west coast and get USC and UCLA to get into the LA market and succeeded.

The Big Ten has been very shrewd with their expansion and very strategic on how they went about it, even with the addition of Oregon and Washington when everyone started jumping ship from the PAC 12. The only school that I still question as to why is Nebraska.
 
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ADORAZ said:
If they add only UConn (and the only nearby schools are Cincinnati, UConn, and WVU), then yeah the Big East may be fine. Big 12 would have a lot of advantages (including inventory) over the BE, but proximity most likely would be enough for the BE to keep MSG.

Once the ACC implodes and Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, VT, etc. join the Big 12... that's totally different. Some of the schools in the middle of nowhere may resist MSG, but there would be more money to be made and that'll win out.
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You think all 18 ACC schools will find a home?
 
ADORAZ said:
I don't think that info is public, but I'm almost positive that there would be a reopening clause in the contract for if team(s) leave. I'm not certain if just one team would trigger that, but my guess is one would be enough to. That's not to say the contract would immediately become void, but still not good.

What's scary too about this is the Big 12, with a UConn addition, could potentially make an offer by as early as 2026 when the contract reopens. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, and I don't think it'd be a guarantee MSG takes it then, but once they add eastern ACC teams and have double the inventory that the Big East does, I don't see any way we could retain them.

UConn leaving would also decrease our TV contract payments, not just overall but for each school individually. It would be a very, very big deal sadly, and it's critical that St. John's does everything possible to have a seat at the table when all is said and done.
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To play devils advocate, the Big East tournament has done so well attendance wise at MSG in recent years, that I'm not sure MSG would simply kick them to the curb. And that's not all from just UConn. Besides, I doubt the Big 12 would want to host their tournament at MSG every single year, especially since none of their schools are based in this region. So I don't see the benefit of MSG booting the Big East.
 
room112 said:
To play devils advocate, the Big East tournament has done so well attendance wise at MSG in recent years, that I'm not sure MSG would simply kick them to the curb. And that's not all from just UConn. Besides, I doubt the Big 12 would want to host their tournament at MSG every single year, especially since none of their schools are based in this region. So I don't see the benefit of MSG booting the Big East.
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I agree, I don't think it'd be a guarantee, but I still think it's more likely than not. The Big East has sold out all sessions the last few years, but that wasn't always the case prior to UConn joining. Nova did a lot of the heavy lifting in the couple years prior to UConn joining, coming off of two NCAA championships.

The big thing the Big 12 could offer would be a lot more sessions given they'd have over double the teams. I do think almost all of the NE teams from the ACC would join (to answer Tom's question). None of them besides maybe UVA would get a Big 10/SEC invite, and probably all but maybe BC would be attractive enough for the Big 12 to add.

MSG would require them to commit every year, so as you said there's a very good chance they wouldn't do that, but at a minimum I do think it'd be the biggest threat we've faced. When the ACC and Big Ten last tried to take MSG they didn't have UConn, Cincinnati, West Virginia, or 24+ teams that the Big 12 could have.

I do think this has been Yormark's plan for years, so I'm really hoping the presidents aren't on the same page and decline UConn.
 
MSG doesn’t need to kick the Big East to the curb. They can simply let it expire if the Big East collapses without a competitive TV deal + Big 12 aggression.

If anything, MSG may help us get into the Big 12.

If it were up to me in a semi-realistic scenario, UConn stays and we add the ACC leftovers: Wake Forest, Boston College, and SMU. I love the conference’s regionalism and common school profiles + round robin.

I hope the Big 12 stuff doesn’t happen. Things are just way too aligned with Fox, MSG and buy out clauses in 2030/2031/2032 to not think some of this stuff is inevitable.

MSG would easily sell out a Big 12 tournament boasting of UConn, Arizona, Kansas, Syracuse, St John’s, Villanova, Georgetown, etc.
 
ADORAZ said:
I agree, I don't think it'd be a guarantee, but I still think it's more likely than not. The Big East has sold out all sessions the last few years, but that wasn't always the case prior to UConn joining. Nova did a lot of the heavy lifting in the couple years prior to UConn joining, coming off of two NCAA championships.

The big thing the Big 12 could offer would be a lot more sessions given they'd have over double the teams. I do think almost all of the NE teams from the ACC would join (to answer Tom's question). None of them besides maybe UVA would get a Big 10/SEC invite, and probably all but maybe BC would be attractive enough for the Big 12 to add.

MSG would require them to commit every year, so as you said there's a very good chance they wouldn't do that, but at a minimum I do think it'd be the biggest threat we've faced. When the ACC and Big Ten last tried to take MSG they didn't have UConn, Cincinnati, West Virginia, or 24+ teams that the Big 12 could have.

I do think this has been Yormark's plan for years, so I'm really hoping the presidents aren't on the same page and decline UConn.
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I appreciate your commentary. I've gotten the impression that the Big East tournament has become an event so ingrained in the fabric of NYC sports culture that tends to draw out even casual basketball fans on a yearly basis, who would compliment the fans of teams attending, and lead to sell outs. I may be a bit naive. But at the same time, we've also seen how mediocre the attendence has been for the power conferences when they have attempted to host them in NYC.
 
otis said:
Why does the B12 need a basketball only school to improve its conference revenue?
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They want our markets, that's why. St. John's is such a weird player in all of this realignment because we are the only major team in the biggest city in the country (by a mile too). Even though we've sucked the last 20 years, we still oddly appear at the top of TV ratings in big games.
 
room112 said:
I appreciate your commentary. I've gotten the impression that the Big East tournament has become an event so ingrained in the fabric of NYC sports culture that tends to draw out even casual basketball fans on a yearly basis, who would compliment the fans of teams attending, and lead to sell outs. I may be a bit naive. But at the same time, we've also seen how mediocre the attendence has been for the power conferences when they have attempted to host them in NYC.
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room112 said:
But at the same time, we've also seen how mediocre the attendence has been for the power conferences when they have attempted to host them in NYC.
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Agree that attendance when other conferences tried to play tournaments at MSG was abysmal. The thing is most of the BE teams fans travel well and show up in force at the Garden. I'd love to see Big East add Dayton asap as we know how well their fans travel.
 
I went to one of the doubleheaders when the B10 used MSG for their tournament (got tickets in the 100 sections.) I know Michigan and Maryland played that day, don’t remember if they faced each other. Zero current B12 programs have the alumni presence in NY that those schools have.

Paid less than 20 for the tickets and the atmosphere was the same as a Wagner vs. Delaware State game. Good luck with any conference trying to replicate what the Big East has for their tournament.
 
Can't wait for the Uconn/Arizona State hockey match up in the desert. It is going to become very costly for all the ancillary sports to travel out west (particularly the women's sports)
 
fordham96 said:
Improve the B12 basketball? They have arguably been the best and deepest basketball conference in the country for the last decade. Obviously they lost Oklahoma and Texas which hurts but they swapped them for Arizona and Houston. they are arguably stronger.

UCONN would make them insanely deep.
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By profile I meant regional appeal, TV money, recruiting territory, etc more than pure conference strength. They don't need any help in that department though U Conn sure doesn't hurt.
 
room112 said:
I appreciate your commentary. I've gotten the impression that the Big East tournament has become an event so ingrained in the fabric of NYC sports culture that tends to draw out even casual basketball fans on a yearly basis, who would compliment the fans of teams attending, and lead to sell outs. I may be a bit naive. But at the same time, we've also seen how mediocre the attendence has been for the power conferences when they have attempted to host them in NYC.
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Very valid points, I honestly expected the Big Ten and ACC to do a lot better than they did at MSG / Barclays.

Lots of factors here, including ticket prices and national TV ratings/interest which I didn't mention. With so many alumni bases and potential for Kansas, UConn, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Arizona in the finals, I think they have a much higher ceiling there.

The flip side of course is if there's a Utah vs. Arizona St finals. UConn vs. Duke would be a lot more likely than that, but regardless there's still risk given how much bloat there is.

Ultimately what it'll come down to is how effective Yormark is at pitching this (let's first see if he's actually able to add UConn), and also greed due to the higher ceiling of a nationwide elite conference. Too often in recent years we've seen greed win out in college athletics, but I do hope the MSG executives favor stability.
 
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