Around the Big East

So much of this we can't control, but I will tell you this. If we EVER wanted to put lipstick on our St. John's pig and present well for the next 2-3 years, it's with the talent we have NOW and the coach we have NOW. We have to make some noise NOW. Remember when Butler made their 2 title games and poof they bubbled up to the next conference? That sort of idea. We wouldn't take Butler now....

Figure out some hybrid where the Big East is an "associate member" of the Big 12 for a proportional share.

If we go down, let's go down swinging, not just sitting on our hands.
 
They are ungrateful, their program was in crapper! I’m being nice here, their fans were having to roll their own Salems. Dmelio is a clown,🤡 they got shanked at Fiesta Bowl. They couldn’t even sell enough seats. Hurley (with his condition) has been amazing for them. Let them get into big 12 and watch the Olympic sports take a beating. It’ll be great watching them trot out Aaron Hernandez brother for a beating vs Colorado.
 
Mullins Revenge said:
Uconn isnt going anywhere. They belong in the big east. Hurley is the face of the big east.

They are going to continuing winning nattys and it will be Hurley and Wooden at the top when it’s all said and done.
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Let’s not make it seem staying is UConn’s choice. It is clearly not. If offered a spot in the Big 12, they are gone . The only reason they are in the BE now is because the ACC and Big 12 didn’t want them previously.
 
porterBrown said:
So much of this we can't control, but I will tell you this. If we EVER wanted to put lipstick on our St. John's pig and present well for the next 2-3 years, it's with the talent we have NOW and the coach we have NOW. We have to make some noise NOW. Remember when Butler made their 2 title games and poof they bubbled up to the next conference? That sort of idea. We wouldn't take Butler now....

Figure out some hybrid where the Big East is an "associate member" of the Big 12 for a proportional share.

If we go down, let's go down swinging, not just sitting on our hands.
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Sitting on her hands is how Val does business. Many here have said for years that she's over her head when dealing with the "big boys". The "associate member" suggestion is a good one. Adding the elite members of the Atlantic 10 and other conferences might work. I'd like to see Pitino here for another ten years...but after he's gone, we're screwed without the kisses.
 
fordham96 said:
The relationship between UCONN and the BE has been mutually beneficial.

UCONN got to come back to its home so to speak and play games vs
The BE got a basketball power that was coming off a slumping period but was ready to be a power again.
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They were able to become a power thanks to Big East level recruiting which they lacked in the other conference where they were going nowhere, Hurley or no Hurley.
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porterBrown said:
Member Figure out some hybrid where the Big East is an "associate member" of the Big 12 for a proportional share.
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Neither one of us know what has or not been discussed by the Big East with the B12 or ACC, but what has been reported is that the hang up between the B12 and UConn has been a proposed hybrid concept whereby UConn would be a non football member until 2031 and then only if UConn football hits certain goals with regard to home attendance and financing.

The point being that yeah, if the Big East braintrust has not already discussed alternatives with the B12 and ACC it should, but if the B12 is reluctant to make room for UConn, the school with the strongest college basketball program and a weak football program I am not confident that there is an “associate member” deal for stJ’s to be cut with the B12 or ACC.
 
RedStormNC said:
That all may turn out to be true. But if it happens, it will be in part because thru we're not wanted by B12.
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The B12 won't take them for the same reason the ACC didn't take them. Their football program brings absolutely nothing to the table. It's that simple. BC is the cautionary tale. College football in the northeast is an afterthought. UConn moving to the B12 won't change that.
 
The Big 12's #1 target, by a massive margin, is the ACC. They just can't poach them yet. That could work against UConn, but it also works against the idea of Big East teams merging with the Big 12.

There was a rumor I posted in February 2023 (before UConn/Gonzaga rumors started last August) that the Big 12 was considering adding UConn, Villanova and St. John's, and making a run at MSG for their Tournament.

Since then they've added powerhouse basketball schools like Arizona, UConn has won two championships, Nova has fallen off, and the ACC has become a lot less stable.

To put this simply, IF the Big 12 adds UConn they'll become a big threat to take MSG. Then when they add ACC schools, such as Syracuse, Pitt, and Duke, the Big 12 will without question take MSG.

IF UConn leaves, St. John's needs to get out in front of this and see if there's room to join (with the MSG Tournament as leverage) before the ACC implodes.
 
ADORAZ said:
The Big 12's #1 target, by a massive margin, is the ACC. They just can't poach them yet. That could work against UConn, but it also works against the idea of Big East teams merging with the Big 12.

There was a rumor I posted in February 2023 (before UConn/Gonzaga rumors started last August) that the Big 12 was considering adding UConn, Villanova and St. John's, and making a run at MSG for their Tournament.

Since then they've added powerhouse basketball schools like Arizona, UConn has won two championships, Nova has fallen off, and the ACC has become a lot less stable.

To put this simply, IF the Big 12 adds UConn they'll become a big threat to take MSG. Then when they add ACC schools, such as Syracuse, Pitt, and Duke, the Big 12 will without question take MSG.

IF UConn leaves, St. John's needs to get out in front of this and see if there's room to join (with the MSG Tournament as leverage) before the ACC implodes.
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If you look at Yormark's resume, he's a NY guy who understands the market. I think he knows the path to the NYC market & MSG for the tournament is UConn, Syracuse, St. John's -- probably in that order (sadly). Adding a Villanova and Georgetown is a no-brainer to get two massive East Coast markets as well.

The ACC implosion is inevitable. The B12 ADs will be much more comfortable poaching competitive football programs that are either additive or neutral to the conference's TV deal: Clemson (doubt it), Florida State (doubt it), Miami (doubt it), Louisville, Duke (I still have a gut feeling they'll be going to B10 or SEC), Pittsburgh, etc.

FOX being against UConn joining the B12 tells me that they value the Big East partnership and wants to keep it going through the deal. I find it suspicious that the deals lapse right at the same time & when Yormark has said he wants to break apart the football and basketball revenue.

If you're FOX, wouldn't you rather just pay a lump sum for a league of: Arizona, Louisville, Kansas, UConn, Syracuse, Baylor, St. John's, Villanova, Georgetown, Pittsburgh, etc., then pay two deals -- one for the B12 and one of the Big East?
 

Great source to see TV ratings last year.
Top line numbers: 58,000,000 viewers, 292k average viewers, .13 average rating

UConn: 17m viewers, 575+ average, .26 average
Marquette: 15m, 500k, .22
Creighton: 10.8m+, 400k+, .21
St. John's: 10.6, 368k, .18
Villanova: 10, 357k, .14

No one else has more than 7 million -- which is bad for Xavier, Seton Hall or Providence, who were all as good as us.

Obviously success dictates a lot of this but I'm certain FOX is tracking this very closely.
 
We interrupt the Summer of LMF Being Off RedFans to offer the following comments:

- Disagree with my friend SJU85: college sports is all about football, all the time. It's why bank robbers rob banks: that's where the money is.

- Agree that Yormark thinks hoops is undervalued and would like to improve the B12 profile in that area. But disagree that he will he get a supermajority of his presidents to agree.

- Think part of that is that his presidents will (correctly) assume that the ACC is doomed and would rather wait to collect schools with great basketball and decent football programs rather than a great basketball and trash football program that also does not have adequate private donor support but is overwhelmingly state funded

- The OG Big East schools are NEVER leaving that brand and will never be basketball only members of some football conference. They would rather own their own conference than rent in someone else's.
 
lawmanfan said:
We interrupt the Summer of LMF Being Off RedFans to offer the following comments:

- Disagree with my friend SJU85: college sports is all about football, all the time. It's why bank robbers rob banks: that's where the money is.

- Agree that Yormark thinks hoops is undervalued and would like to improve the B12 profile in that area. But disagree that he will he get a supermajority of his presidents to agree.

- Think part of that is that his presidents will (correctly) assume that the ACC is doomed and would rather wait to collect schools with great basketball and decent football programs rather than a great basketball and trash football program that also does not have adequate private donor support but is overwhelmingly state funded

- The OG Big East schools are NEVER leaving that brand and will never be basketball only members of some football conference. They would rather own their own conference than rent in someone else's.
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I think they think that, but all depends what the TV/streaming landscape is in 2030, unfortunately
 
lawmanfan said:
We interrupt the Summer of LMF Being Off RedFans to offer the following comments:

- Disagree with my friend SJU85: college sports is all about football, all the time. It's why bank robbers rob banks: that's where the money is.

- Agree that Yormark thinks hoops is undervalued and would like to improve the B12 profile in that area. But disagree that he will he get a supermajority of his presidents to agree.

- Think part of that is that his presidents will (correctly) assume that the ACC is doomed and would rather wait to collect schools with great basketball and decent football programs rather than a great basketball and trash football program that also does not have adequate private donor support but is overwhelmingly state funded

- The OG Big East schools are NEVER leaving that brand and will never be basketball only members of some football conference. They would rather own their own conference than rent in someone else's.
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As a huge college football fan, I know College Football drives the bus, something I have been saying for years here even back in the day when the Big East was raided and people didn’t understand and kept thinking a month of college basketball in March was what drove the bus. So I apologize if my post seem to imply otherwise.

In this case though, it is college basketball and the NY-Metro area media market that is most attractive to the Big 12. UConn football adds nothing but the basketball programs do and the metro area does. It is telling how little UConn football is valued if they agree to not sharing in football revenue for 5 - 7 years according to reports.

I agree with your first three points (with my clarification above) and agree that the OG BE would prefer their own conference but I am not sure when the music stops, that will be where they wind up.
 
I don't buy that the NY-Metro area is that important that the Big 12 would start just taking on schools with awful football, or in our case no football.

What has adding Rutgers to the Big Ten unlocked for that conference in terms of the NY media market? I am seriously asking. I'm curious because this whole NY/Metro importance thing was the reason Rutgers got into the Big Ten, has it made any real impact on the league? Has it generated support for Big Ten football in the area? I just don't see it.

I agree with LMF, if you're the big 12, and think the ACC is not long for this world, why not just wait out and see if schools like Duke, Clemson, UNC become available? You are getting good basketball programs that have also been competitive in football for years now. If it were UConn vs Duke for a spot in the Big 12 for example, who in their right mind would take UConn? You would be getting the most recognizable CBB brand and a football program that (unlike UConn) has actually shown signs of life the past decade.
 
Jack Williams said:
I don't buy that the NY-Metro area is that important that the Big 12 would start just taking on schools with awful football, or in our case no football.

What has adding Rutgers to the Big Ten unlocked for that conference in terms of the NY media market? I am seriously asking. I'm curious because this whole NY/Metro importance thing was the reason Rutgers got into the Big Ten, has it made any real impact on the league? Has it generated support for Big Ten football in the area? I just don't see it.

I agree with LMF, if you're the big 12, and think the ACC is not long for this world, why not just wait out and see if schools like Duke, Clemson, UNC become available? You are getting good basketball programs that have also been competitive in football for years now. If it were UConn vs Duke for a spot in the Big 12 for example, who in their right mind would take UConn? You would be getting the most recognizable CBB brand and a football program that (unlike UConn) has actually shown signs of life the past decade.
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What Rutgers has provided is the Big 10 Network inclusion in NY area cable outlets, etc. Rutgers inclusion has not hurt the conference at all, anything resembling a dial mover, certainly not.
 
Jack Williams said:
I don't buy that the NY-Metro area is that important that the Big 12 would start just taking on schools with awful football, or in our case no football.

What has adding Rutgers to the Big Ten unlocked for that conference in terms of the NY media market? I am seriously asking. I'm curious because this whole NY/Metro importance thing was the reason Rutgers got into the Big Ten, has it made any real impact on the league? Has it generated support for Big Ten football in the area? I just don't see it.

I agree with LMF, if you're the big 12, and think the ACC is not long for this world, why not just wait out and see if schools like Duke, Clemson, UNC become available? You are getting good basketball programs that have also been competitive in football for years now. If it were UConn vs Duke for a spot in the Big 12 for example, who in their right mind would take UConn? You would be getting the most recognizable CBB brand and a football program that (unlike UConn) has actually shown signs of life the past decade.
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Rutgers (and Maryland, for that matter) were very important for the Big Ten because it gave the Big Ten Network huge leverage get on Time Warner and Cablevision in NY/NJ and Washington D.C. Especially back then, the # cable subscribers was very large. That dynamic is changing, but it's still not nothing.

The top echelon of the ACC is likely going to the Big 10 or SEC. There is zero chance UNC is going to the Big 12, and I think UNC will be able to get Duke and/or UVA to join them wherever they go. FSU and Clemson seem destined to go to the Big 10, but who knows. Notre Dame, if joining a football conference, isn't joining the Big 12 either.

The Big 12 does not have a network. So for them, it's all about either increasing their current TV deal or their next one. If its true that Yormark wants to negotiate the basketball and football deals separately, which has never happened before, than the thing they'll try to suss out with the TV executives is: Are schools like Virginia Tech, Miami or NC State additive to the football side of the deal compared to what Gonzaga/STJ/Villanova/Georgetown/Marquette/Creighton are to the basketball side? And, just as much, FOX will have to ask themselves -- is it still worth bankrolling the Big East if we can get our best rated properties over under one umbrella?

UConn is in a tricky spot since they'd have to take some of the football money. But all of the basketball schools wouldn't. That's a huge plus.
 
logen said:
What Rutgers has provided is the Big 10 Network inclusion in NY area cable outlets, etc. Rutgers inclusion has not hurt the conference at all, anything resembling a dial mover, certainly not.
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When they added them, they likely added 50 mill per year of revenue to the B10 Network. The Presidents would likely say that's a good thing, and the ADs probably don't mind an easy win on the schedule.
 
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