Around the Big East 19/20
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JohnnyFever
Active member
Great win by SHU...thought this was auto loss to them as did many others. Guts to beat #7 team without best player, but Maryland looked awful. I think Seton Hall matched their crazy size and they aren't used to that. SHU now at 7-4 going into conference play and will still probably need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a BET win or two if they don't want to sweat. Felt like SHU was due one of these totally unexpected wins after losing so many others that were close and being blown out by Rutgers. Law of averages type feel even though it's not real. Either way, good for conference and Hall still is not that special, so good all around. I see them as our direct competition and I don't want casual NYC area fans siding with them. I want to be the only game in town.
boo haarvey
Active member
SHU now at 7-4 going into conference play and will still probably need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a BET win or two.
What? Assuming they win their tune-up game before DePaul, they’ll be 8-4. A lot of variables, but given the strength of the league and Seton Hall’s strength of schedule coupled with the win today, ten wins (including the Big East tournament) should get them in no problem.
What? Assuming they win their tune-up game before DePaul, they’ll be 8-4. A lot of variables, but given the strength of the league and Seton Hall’s strength of schedule coupled with the win today, ten wins (including the Big East tournament) should get them in no problem.
Since we are closing in on conf play, which Big East teams do you think ultimately dance this year? I think we get 6 in this season, maybe 7.
- Nova
- X
- Butler
- Hall
- Marquette
- DePaul????
- Creighton ??
I feel good about 5. Creighton/DePaul a little shaky but they could make a run at it.
Hell, lemme see a johnnies win Saturday night and I’ll start campaigning for us to get in
- Nova
- X
- Butler
- Hall
- Marquette
- DePaul????
- Creighton ??
I feel good about 5. Creighton/DePaul a little shaky but they could make a run at it.
Hell, lemme see a johnnies win Saturday night and I’ll start campaigning for us to get in
[quote="MCNPA" post=368327]Good for them and the league. I can’t figure out how they won it and how Maryland was that bad, but it counts anyway. Go Big East![/quote]
Had that been us you guys would have been crowing about what a gutsy win, what a great defensive performance it was. They won the only way they could, by playing tough, committed defense the whole game, blocking 15 shots and earning the win. Maryland was that bad because the Hall forced them to play that bad.
Had that been us you guys would have been crowing about what a gutsy win, what a great defensive performance it was. They won the only way they could, by playing tough, committed defense the whole game, blocking 15 shots and earning the win. Maryland was that bad because the Hall forced them to play that bad.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Adam" post=368340]Going to disagree here Mike. Isn't their SOS #1 in the nation? And that was before picking up another Q1 win tonight. They'd easily get in with 9 BE wins. Maybe even 8 like us last year.[/quote]
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.
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boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=368352][quote="Adam" post=368340]Going to disagree here Mike. Isn't their SOS #1 in the nation? And that was before picking up another Q1 win tonight. They'd easily get in with 9 BE wins. Maybe even 8 like us last year.[/quote]
The committee is not going to leave a worthy team out bc the Big East didn’t perform well last year. That’s just silly. Seton Hall now has a signature win. They have one of the toughest ooc schedules in the country and they’ve acquitted themselves well even in their losses with the exception of Rutgers (without their two best players).
SJU got a bid last year with a cupcake ooc schedule in which they had no quality wins. We then had only nine total wins (including one in the tournament) in a weaker Big East. I think Seton Hall dances with ten total conference wins and possibly nine. The committee will also likely give them a boost if they’re healthy come tournament time. Your supposition that they need as many as 12 conference wins and as many as two wins in the tournament just to get in is not right. If they do that, they’re likely a top five seed.
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.[/quote]
The committee is not going to leave a worthy team out bc the Big East didn’t perform well last year. That’s just silly. Seton Hall now has a signature win. They have one of the toughest ooc schedules in the country and they’ve acquitted themselves well even in their losses with the exception of Rutgers (without their two best players).
SJU got a bid last year with a cupcake ooc schedule in which they had no quality wins. We then had only nine total wins (including one in the tournament) in a weaker Big East. I think Seton Hall dances with ten total conference wins and possibly nine. The committee will also likely give them a boost if they’re healthy come tournament time. Your supposition that they need as many as 12 conference wins and as many as two wins in the tournament just to get in is not right. If they do that, they’re likely a top five seed.
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.[/quote]
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=368352][quote="Adam" post=368340]Going to disagree here Mike. Isn't their SOS #1 in the nation? And that was before picking up another Q1 win tonight. They'd easily get in with 9 BE wins. Maybe even 8 like us last year.[/quote]
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.[/quote]
I agree that they scheduled too hard, but there isn't a magic number of wins needed to Dance. It's rare, but 16 win teams have made the Tournament within the past couple decades. 19 win teams making it is somewhat common. Assuming Hall wins their final OOC game (vs a cupcake), then they'll be 8-4 OOC. Not sure why they didn't schedule a 13th team, but whatever. 9-9 and 1-1 BET would get them to 18 wins with likely the toughest SOS in the nation.
I'll just say this: I can't ever remember a deserving team NOT making the Dance due to their record. I think it's one of the least important metrics they look at (if they even do). Hall is just in a super unique situation having 1. the toughest OOC SOS 2. an above average Power conference schedule and 3. only playing 12 rather than 13 OOC games.
As for their current resume, they are #41 in NET. Rutgers is actually #53, so their only questionable loss isn't bad at all (it was away so actually Q1... I think all their losses were Q1). Hall has 2 Q1 wins over Maryland and St. Louis. We only had 1 OOC Q1 win last year and got in with an 8-10 record. Also, their neutral court Iowa St game has a chance at becoming Q1.
In short, they have a great resume and won't be left out if they get to 18 wins. Even 17 (9-9 BE, 0-1 BET) I think gets them in. 16 wouldn't be out of the question, especially since there is precedent for it.
It still may be too little to late, yes even with that huge win. They dug themselves in a hole early on losing 2 close games to top 15 opponents and blown out by Rutgers. Even Lavin was saying, it's good they schedule tough but eventually you need to actually win. They did last night which was obviously a very good win, but you still need that magic number 20 or 21, no? I don't think the committee will be kind with seeding the Big East after awful tourney performances on the reg. They have 3 or 4 less wins than many other Big East teams. Different SOS obviously, but that only counts so much. Wins are important too as we saw last year making the tourney with a cupcake schedule and a bad NET. In a league so competitive, wins will be at a premium. I think Hall scheduled too hard and it may come back to bite them. If they go 9-9, assuming they beat their last cupcake they would be at 17 wins. That's not enough to make the tournament. They'd have to still win at least 2 and maybe even 3 BET games on top of that which is no sure thing. Either way, they will probably get a poor seed and bow out early. Part of the reason I'm so critical of them is because they are our direct rival in conference. I don't want to share the NYC metro area with them.[/quote]
I agree that they scheduled too hard, but there isn't a magic number of wins needed to Dance. It's rare, but 16 win teams have made the Tournament within the past couple decades. 19 win teams making it is somewhat common. Assuming Hall wins their final OOC game (vs a cupcake), then they'll be 8-4 OOC. Not sure why they didn't schedule a 13th team, but whatever. 9-9 and 1-1 BET would get them to 18 wins with likely the toughest SOS in the nation.
I'll just say this: I can't ever remember a deserving team NOT making the Dance due to their record. I think it's one of the least important metrics they look at (if they even do). Hall is just in a super unique situation having 1. the toughest OOC SOS 2. an above average Power conference schedule and 3. only playing 12 rather than 13 OOC games.
As for their current resume, they are #41 in NET. Rutgers is actually #53, so their only questionable loss isn't bad at all (it was away so actually Q1... I think all their losses were Q1). Hall has 2 Q1 wins over Maryland and St. Louis. We only had 1 OOC Q1 win last year and got in with an 8-10 record. Also, their neutral court Iowa St game has a chance at becoming Q1.
In short, they have a great resume and won't be left out if they get to 18 wins. Even 17 (9-9 BE, 0-1 BET) I think gets them in. 16 wouldn't be out of the question, especially since there is precedent for it.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
I just think Seton Hall is far from a sure thing and many here seem to think they are fine. They have 1 signature win...they also beat Iowa St but they are below us in the NET at 70 (previously 80) so not that crazy. The win last night was a must to have any real chance of doing anything special. It merely kept their heart beating for now in what is still a disappointing season thus far bad luck or not. How do we know they are a .500 Big East team? They are all banged up and I'm not even sure they would've dominated the conference when healthy. We had an extremely talented team last year that finished 8-10. There's no guarantee in this conference. I think what we saw last night was SHU cornered as an injured animal and responded as such fighting for their lives. I don't know that they have the coaching or the scoring to even be .500 in the conference this year. Give them credit for the big win and definitely their signature win, but by no means is their work over. They have a lot to prove still.
WVU NET is 12
Maryland is 18
According to the NET, our win is still more impressive. Let's not get too crazy here.
WVU NET is 12
Maryland is 18
According to the NET, our win is still more impressive. Let's not get too crazy here.
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