Around the Big East 19/20

DePaul down 7 at home to Buffalo at the half. This would be a bad loss for DePaul and the Big East. Hope they come back.
 
Buffalo doing all they can to give it to DePaul with some junior high play as they try to protect the lead that is down to 9 in the under 4 time out.

Down to 4 with 1:26 left. Buffalo time out with the ball.

Buffalo gonna hang on, up 5 with 11.5 seconds left with the ball.
Maybe not, gave it away for a layup, up 3 with 5.8 and the ball.

Made the foul shots, won by 5. First time seeing DePaul, didn’t play great but didn’t die, made some big shots to get back in it. Leiato went into a zone the last 8 minutes or so which gave Buffalo fits.
 
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Buffalo head coach is a former St. John's assistant coach, Jim Whitesell.
 
Seton Hall...the textbook definition of "almost" and "what if". Every few years they have crazy good teams and do very little with them. They get people so close to buying their stock nationally, then when all the eyes are on them, they come up just short all the time. UNC with the Delgado team, now MSU and Oregon with this year's team. Yes they won last yr vs. Kentucky but that was isolated. They never tear through people, pick up top 10 wins, and make the Sweet 16. This is why I was not sold on them being that amazing even with a huge and very talented team. When they are expected to be great, they are good. When they're expected to be good, they're decent.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366881]Seton Hall...the textbook definition of "almost" and "what if". Every few years they have crazy good teams and do very little with them. They get people so close to buying their stock nationally, then when all the eyes are on them, they come up just short all the time. UNC with the Delgado team, now MSU and Oregon with this year's team. Yes they won last yr vs. Kentucky but that was isolated. They never tear through people, pick up top 10 wins, and make the Sweet 16. This is why I was not sold on them being that amazing even with a huge and very talented team. When they are expected to be great, they are good. When they're expected to be good, they're decent.[/quote]

Didnt they beat Villanova in the big east championship game a couple years ago?

I’d love to win a game of that magnitude... this is a weird take
 
SHU is losing this game.
Just looked like they didn't have it tonight.

lmao why did Powell reach out and touch him after the ball was in the air.
Just stupid
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=366884][quote="Mike Zaun" post=366881]Seton Hall...the textbook definition of "almost" and "what if". Every few years they have crazy good teams and do very little with them. They get people so close to buying their stock nationally, then when all the eyes are on them, they come up just short all the time. UNC with the Delgado team, now MSU and Oregon with this year's team. Yes they won last yr vs. Kentucky but that was isolated. They never tear through people, pick up top 10 wins, and make the Sweet 16. This is why I was not sold on them being that amazing even with a huge and very talented team. When they are expected to be great, they are good. When they're expected to be good, they're decent.[/quote]

Didnt they beat Villanova in the big east championship game a couple years ago?

I’d love to win a game of that magnitude... this is a weird take[/quote]

Yeah but they weren't expected to. My point is when the brightest lights are on them and they get the big time matchups the country will really take notice from, they often lose. They were supposed to be this beast of a team this year and they are now 6-3 with the likely ISU loss. Their best win is a mediocre Iowa State team (they play them twice). That ain't going to cut it come March. It just gets tiresome when they schedule all these big time programs when they're supposed to be really good and always come up short. Seems like a repeat of the senior Delgado team where the expectations were quite high but they didn't really dominate the conference as everyone thought and they didn't make a peep in the NCAA tourney because their seed sucked. They are going to get another poor seed because they keep crapping their pants in the big OOC games. If Powell is contained, Seton Hall is extremely beatable.

We were picked last in the Big East by many and we already have a much better win than them. Their best win is Iowa State in a mediocre at best year...we beat WVU which will probably be ranked soon or by end of season. ISU won't be. Only shot left for them is Maryland and no way they dominate the conference. They aren't ready for the big time and will be unranked within a few weeks I predict. Going into the season I said this and it's playing out that way. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366888][quote="Jack Williams" post=366884][quote="Mike Zaun" post=366881]Seton Hall...the textbook definition of "almost" and "what if". Every few years they have crazy good teams and do very little with them. They get people so close to buying their stock nationally, then when all the eyes are on them, they come up just short all the time. UNC with the Delgado team, now MSU and Oregon with this year's team. Yes they won last yr vs. Kentucky but that was isolated. They never tear through people, pick up top 10 wins, and make the Sweet 16. This is why I was not sold on them being that amazing even with a huge and very talented team. When they are expected to be great, they are good. When they're expected to be good, they're decent.[/quote]

Didnt they beat Villanova in the big east championship game a couple years ago?

I’d love to win a game of that magnitude... this is a weird take[/quote]

Yeah but they weren't expected to. My point is when the brightest lights are on them and they get the big time matchups the country will really take notice from, they often lose. They were supposed to be this beast of a team this year and they are now 6-3 with the likely ISU loss. Their best win is a mediocre Iowa State team (they play them twice). That ain't going to cut it come March. It just gets tiresome when they schedule all these big time programs when they're supposed to be really good and always come up short. Seems like a repeat of the senior Delgado team where the expectations were quite high but they didn't really dominate the conference as everyone thought and they didn't make a peep in the NCAA tourney because their seed sucked. They are going to get another poor seed because they keep crapping their pants in the big OOC games. If Powell is contained, Seton Hall is extremely beatable.[/quote]

Yea but I think you’re overrating them a little bit and using some revisionist history to aid your argument.

Even when seton hall were just coming off of a Big East Tournament title and had a pretty great roster with Delgado, Carrington, Desi. They were picked to finish 4th in the Big East.

They ended up making the tournament. They’ve made the tournament consistently the last 5 years. Sprinkle in a win in the first round, plus a huge big east title against future national champ Nova, it’s been a pretty great 5-6 years for The Hall.

Everyone here would be pretty damn satisfied with that kind of success.

This year they were getting a lot of love preseason, but their roster isn’t that great. They have a great player, maybe the best player in college ball.

Even when the “lights are brightest” for the Hall you’d probably be hard pressed to find any analysts or college basketball fans who “expect” sweet sixteens from them

I guess your argument is they don’t live up to expectations, but who would’ve said at the beginning of the decade that Seton Hall would go to all these tournaments, win a conference tournament, and an NCAA game?? It’s not like seton hall was some powerhouse in the early 2000s. It’s been a good run.

The things you are saying about seton hall, a lot of people said the same shit about Nova those years where they were snakebit in the tournament. But getting to those tournaments and losing builds a foundation and a pattern of success so that an eventual run can happen. That shouldn’t be overlooked.
 
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Jack, Seton Hall was always the sexy pick to challenge Nova and Xavier to win the Big East outright (not just get hot one Big East Tourney year). All we'd hear in the offseason was how many veterans they have and Powell and this and that. I said very clearly they were nowhere near a top 15 team before the season started and probably not even top 25. It's all playing out exactly how I thought it would. They are one-dimensional in that all they really have is Powell on offense, Willard is overrated, and they never live up to expectations when they are top 15, Sweet 16 level.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366891]Jack, Seton Hall was always the sexy pick to challenge Nova and Xavier to win the Big East outright (not just get hot one Big East Tourney year). All we'd hear in the offseason was how many veterans they have and Powell and this and that. I said very clearly they were nowhere near a top 15 team before the season started and probably not even top 25. It's all playing out exactly how I thought it would. They are one-dimensional in that all they really have is Powell on offense, Willard is overrated, and they never live up to expectations when they are top 15, Sweet 16 level.[/quote]

Again, I don’t buy that. Other than this year, I don’t recall anyone putting huge expectations on a seton hall team.

Maybe they did during Whiteheads last year and also Delgados senior year... but in those years they won the BET and also won an NCAA game. By seton halls standards those are successful seasons.

I just don’t buy that they are the program that have fumbled away good seasons when they have good rosters. If anything, that’s us
 
Sandro Mamu huge loss for SH, was playing well. Imo, SH too dependent on Powell & lacks consistent second scorer. Samuel at least will see more time, but Mamu loss if down 6-8 weeks is significant.
 
Jack, this season Seton Hall was picked to win the Big East. They are supposed to be our flagship team this year. They just lost to unranked Iowa State who is not good this year. Their best win is also Iowa State. They may very well trip up vs. Rutgers and good luck getting past #3 Maryland. Realistically, they will be limping into conference play most likely. They're already down to 6-3 and can easily lose those 2. Does this sound like the best team in the Big East? I never compared them to us. I never said we wouldn't be happy with their last 5 seasons if they happened here. I'm saying relative to their expectations they have blown opportunities like no one else on a very consistent basis. I got killed for saying SHU would be overrated before the season and they clearly are. Just admit it. I know it's still early and they got the key injury, but great teams find a way. We just beat WVU who will quite possibly be a top 25 win by year's end without a major piece in Steere and our best player LJ on the bench for a ton of the game with a new coach. We were picked last. So I don't want to hear the excuses for SH. If you read their board they echo my perspective. Seton Hall's ceiling is a 7 seed and losing immediately...again. Why? Because they just screwed up their seeding yet again by blowing precious OOC opportunities for signature wins. It's not the same if you get wins in conference. The only chance they have to avoid making a one and done in the tourney again is to beat Maryland. If they lose to Rutgers the Maryland game becomes a must win if they have any chance making it past the 1st round in the tourney.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366901]Jack, this season Seton Hall was picked to win the Big East. They are supposed to be our flagship team this year. They just lost to unranked Iowa State who is not good this year. Their best win is also Iowa State. They may very well trip up vs. Rutgers and good luck getting past #3 Maryland. Realistically, they will be limping into conference play most likely. They're already down to 6-3 and can easily lose those 2. Does this sound like the best team in the Big East? I never compared them to us. I never said we wouldn't be happy with their last 5 seasons if they happened here. I'm saying relative to their expectations they have blown opportunities like no one else on a very consistent basis. I got killed for saying SHU would be overrated before the season and they clearly are. Just admit it. I know it's still early and they got the key injury, but great teams find a way. We just beat WVU who will quite possibly be a top 25 win by year's end without a major piece in Steere and our best player LJ on the bench for a ton of the game with a new coach. We were picked last. So I don't want to hear the excuses for SH. If you read their board they echo my perspective. Seton Hall's ceiling is a 7 seed and losing immediately...again. Why? Because they just screwed up their seeding yet again by blowing precious OOC opportunities for signature wins. It's not the same if you get wins in conference. The only chance they have to avoid making a one and done in the tourney again is to beat Maryland. If they lose to Rutgers the Maryland game becomes a must win if they have any chance making it past the 1st round in the tourney.[/quote]


The point is, when seton hall has “big expectations” for a season, you seem to think that means sweet-16 or bust. I don’t think that’s where that program is yet.

Put aside this year for now. They lost 3 tough games to good competition. Long way to go. Just put it aside

You’re talking about seton hall as if it’s a recurring theme with them. That’s where my issue lies. It’s not about just this year in this argument, you’re making it seem like this recurring issue year to year.

It’s really not? Year to year they have exceeded expectations under Willard, and when they have pretty good teams in the past, they make the tournament. Again I feel like you think because the pirates have a good roster that means sweet sixteen or bust. That’s tough to do. There’s a lot of good rosters in the country year in and year out. Just because Seton Hall had Angel Delgado and a nice group of senior laden players doesn’t mean they have to get to the second weekend or else the season is a failure. They made the tournament, won a game, and lost a close one to a team that went on to the final four. Where is the shame in that? They are not duke. Not Kansas. They aren’t even Nova. But they’ve been consistently good with good rosters, and I just think they don’t deserve these complaints you’ve put on them
 
Honestly, I don’t think Zaun is wrong. Look at their message board. They have/had lofty expectations as well. They were expected to be tops this year. The expectations are higher amongst their own fan base than anything mentioned here.
 
So essentially that means the expectation for the best Big East team by most accounts is to just make the tourney and bend over immediately? That's not what many expect. Getting to a Sweet 16 isn't like hitting the lotto...you handle your first game and then with all the upsets maybe you get an easier game in the 2nd round than you originally expected. It's not easy obviously, but how long can we pretend that the Big East teams can make the tourney and exit immediately but that's just fine year after year? You're basically implying our conference sucks if you think our best team going 1 and done again is successful. They were a preseason top 15 team. They are going to be unranked very soon. We need to stop making excuses for SH and PC. Having decent or good regular seasons but always failing in the tourney is not that special. Lots of teams make the tourney. It's what you do in it that makes you or breaks you. Fair or not, that's how it is. How long can you be happy with just making a tourney before it's time to actually do something? Then people talk about "tough matchups"...well yeah duh...every matchup will be tough since they're all good teams, but great teams take care of business.
 
Anyone know why SH scheduled/ended up with what appears to be a home and home with Iowa State? Was this just a quirk in the schedule of some tournament matchup? Or was this just scheduled? If so it makes zero sense.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=366905]Anyone know why SH scheduled/ended up with what appears to be a home and home with Iowa State? Was this just a quirk in the schedule of some tournament matchup? Or was this just scheduled? If so it makes zero sense.[/quote]

I believe it was part of the big east big 12 matchup which is why we played West virginia this year.
 
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