Around the Big East 19/20

Are some of you closet SHU fans? Jesus...you get so offended over this. Seton Hall began the year what #12 in the nation? They were picked to win the conference. Test 1 MSU: failed. Test 2: Oregon: failed. Unranked ISU team test #3: failed. Are MSU and Oregon good? Was ISU favored? Sure. Who cares? It's college basketball and upsets are the norm not the exception. We beat Duke two years ago with a bad team. I'm not expecting SHU to win all of these but you need to win some. Excuses are so nauseating. All offseason it was about how deep and how experienced SHU is and we've heard that before with Delgado 's team and they didn't do much. Now it seems to be happening again. Not a bad year objectively, but relative to where the hype was, yes they are falling short and not sure how you can argue that they are fine. Their board is in meltdown mode. Like I said, if they lose the next 2 which is very possible with Rutgers and Maryland, they are legitimately going to be up the river without a paddle. Why do so many people throw their hands up and say, "oh well, that team is just really good and can't expect to ever win against them"? Heard it with UNC, heard with MSU, heard it with Oregon, heard it with ISU. Put up or shut up time for SHU. Don't be mad that I called this before the season began just admit it. Lunardi has them as a 6 seed as of today. If they lose the next 2 it will get ugly. I hope they win the next 2 and right the ship.
 
Last edited:
I don't know Mike, seems like a bit of invented controversy here. Seton Hall does not have a great basketball tradition. The fact is Willard with a 9 year track record has the best winning percentage of any coach at Seton Hall (including PJ Carlesimo) since Honey Russell in the 1950s. They have made the dance 4 years in a row which we'd kill to be able to match. Yes they are not off to the start people predicted this year and with the injury will likely not win the Big East. But overall, they have finished 3rd in BE 3 of last 4 years which is not bad considering two long established winning programs like Nova & Xavier to contend with. I have no rooting interest in Seton Hall, but respect job Willard has done making them consistently relevant after a rough start.
 
Again not comparing them to us. Obviously we'd sign up for their last 5 years in a heartbeat. But they got overrated in the offseason and I had a feeling they wouldn't rise to the occasion just like two years ago. I stand by my belief that Willard is overrated and had a few of the best players SHU will ever have carry him (Whitehead, Delgado, Powell). If he was truly a good coach they would've found a way against 1 of MSU or Oregon. They needed to split that. Close is not good enough...they have the rest of the season with Powell and then he leaves forever. If anything, it makes Willard look bad not getting more out of this team. Do you guys read their board at all? Go look and their posts are nearly identical to mine. No need to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me.
 
Yes, I’m a closet seton hall fan because I made the argument they haven’t been a disappointment the last decade and have instead exceeded expectations.

If you wanna make the argument that Willard is overrated, and mention him faring below expectations a month into this season... make sure to be fair and mention last year. They were picked to finish 8th in the conference. Instead they danced. Can’t just conveniently leave that out.

Also, can I just make something clear, I’m allowed to disagree with you and make my points. I’m not angry with you or upset. I’m just stating my perspective

Saying “you get so offended over this” is way off base. Not a single part of me is offended at what you’re saying. I just think you are wrong and also overreacting to 3 losses from seton hall and speaking in absolutes about their last decade when really they have been good.

Even if you wind up correct about this season, and they do underachieve, I still think you’re wrong for casting a wide umbrella and saying this is a recurring thing with them. That’s been my argument from the beginning. But you keep going back to this month old season and harping on it. Which leads me to believe you skim read my posts or don’t read them at all
 
Last edited:
[quote="Jack Williams" post=367000]Yes, I’m a closet seton hall fan because I made the argument they haven’t been a disappointment the last decade and have instead exceeded expectations.

If you wanna make the argument that Willard is overrated, and mention him faring below expectations a month into this season... make sure to be fair and mention last year. They were picked to finish 8th in the conference. Instead they danced. Can’t just conveniently leave that out.

Also, can I just make something clear, I’m allowed to disagree with you and make my points. I’m not angry with you or upset. I’m just stating my perspective

Saying “you get so offended over this” is way off base. Not a single part of me is offended at what you’re saying. I just think you are wrong and also overreacting to 3 losses from seton hall and speaking in absolutes about their last decade when really they have been good.

Even if you wind up correct about this season, and they do underachieve, I still think you’re wrong for casting a wide umbrella and saying this is a recurring thing with them. That’s been my argument from the beginning. But you keep going back to this month old season and harping on it. Which leads me to believe you skim read my posts or don’t read them at all[/quote]

We will see...yes it's still early of course but they are not on track where they wanted to be at this moment in time. I just get tired of the "yeah but it's Michigan State", "Yeah but it's Oregon", "Yeah but it's ____" as if it would take a miracle to beat them. At what point do you say, "ok they need to actually win some of these even though the opponent is tough"? Michigan State is not a juggernaut...they're currently #16 and Oregon is #10. As the #12 preseason team that's not asking for a miracle. Genuine question. When you are the preseason #12 team that means you should be able to beat some of those types of teams. They have their 3rd and final chance to get a OOC signature win that will greatly help their seeding vs. #3 Maryland. Also like I said, Rutgers will be gunning for them with the rivalry and all. Maybe Seton Hall should schedule much weaker if they are never expected to win big games?
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=367007][quote="Jack Williams" post=367000]Yes, I’m a closet seton hall fan because I made the argument they haven’t been a disappointment the last decade and have instead exceeded expectations.

If you wanna make the argument that Willard is overrated, and mention him faring below expectations a month into this season... make sure to be fair and mention last year. They were picked to finish 8th in the conference. Instead they danced. Can’t just conveniently leave that out.

Also, can I just make something clear, I’m allowed to disagree with you and make my points. I’m not angry with you or upset. I’m just stating my perspective

Saying “you get so offended over this” is way off base. Not a single part of me is offended at what you’re saying. I just think you are wrong and also overreacting to 3 losses from seton hall and speaking in absolutes about their last decade when really they have been good.

Even if you wind up correct about this season, and they do underachieve, I still think you’re wrong for casting a wide umbrella and saying this is a recurring thing with them. That’s been my argument from the beginning. But you keep going back to this month old season and harping on it. Which leads me to believe you skim read my posts or don’t read them at all[/quote]

We will see...yes it's still early of course but they are not on track where they wanted to be at this moment in time. I just get tired of the "yeah but it's Michigan State", "Yeah but it's Oregon", "Yeah but it's ____" as if it would take a miracle to beat them. At what point do you say, "ok they need to actually win some of these even though the opponent is tough"? Michigan State is not a juggernaut...they're currently #16 and Oregon is #10. As the #12 preseason team that's not asking for a miracle. Genuine question. When you are the preseason #12 team that means you should be able to beat some of those types of teams. They have their 3rd and final chance to get a OOC signature win that will greatly help their seeding vs. #3 Maryland. Also like I said, Rutgers will be gunning for them with the rivalry and all. Maybe Seton Hall should schedule much weaker if they are never expected to win big games?[/quote]

I can't believe this discussion is still going on!!!!
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366979]Again not comparing them to us. Obviously we'd sign up for their last 5 years in a heartbeat. But they got overrated in the offseason and I had a feeling they wouldn't rise to the occasion just like two years ago. I stand by my belief that Willard is overrated and had a few of the best players SHU will ever have carry him (Whitehead, Delgado, Powell). If he was truly a good coach they would've found a way against 1 of MSU or Oregon. They needed to split that. Close is not good enough...they have the rest of the season with Powell and then he leaves forever. If anything, it makes Willard look bad not getting more out of this team. Do you guys read their board at all? Go look and their posts are nearly identical to mine. No need to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me.[/quote]

It sounds like you are the closet Seton Hall fan Mike, I don't understand why you are talking about them so much. Conference play is still more than 2 weeks away, don't be fooled by there record. With Sandro hurt we won't see how they truly perform until February.

Again, let's worry about our own squad living up to expectations before criticizing anyone else. Remember we were 12-0 last season and had the most talented starting 5 in the conference? Well I'll remember playing Wednesday night at the BET and not even making it into the the final 64 of the Tournament.
 
Tuesday, December 10th:

9:00 PM - Butler (32.1%) at Baylor- ESPN2 - Big East/Big 12 Battle, game 6 of 10

After tonight's games, the Big East takes 2 days off, with games resuming on Friday.
 
Seton Hall is as good as their preseason ranking. They just picked an overly ambitious schedule (#1 SOS) and have lost the 50-50 games. If they won those they'd be top 5 in the AP right now. Their big guy just got injured, though, so going forward they may be in trouble.
 
A couple of points about recent topics in this thread...

Seton Hall is a good team, but they were probably overrated to start the season. They've lost to every good team they've played, but you have to give them credit for playing an excellent OOC schedule.

The article from the NYT just proves my point about how stupid it was for the BE to admit UConn. Don't get me started about all the reasons why that is a dumb move, and why we will come to regret it.
 
Disagree regarding UConn being bad for the conference. Villanova can't always carry the conference. When Villanova isn't good (and G'Town is a mess), our conference is much weaker in terms of national respect. We needed another team like that to add. I don't think they'll be the same UConn we remember...their natty championship days are probably over, but I think they can be a top 15-25 team fairly consistently. That gives us 2 more chances for good wins in conference play. That's how I see it. More fans, more money, more hype, more prestige for conference, more chances for good resume wins. BET is going to be nuts.
 
[quote="RedmanMike" post=367025]A couple of points about recent topics in this thread...

Seton Hall is a good team, but they were probably overrated to start the season. They've lost to every good team they've played, but you have to give them credit for playing an excellent OOC schedule.

The article from the NYT just proves my point about how stupid it was for the BE to admit UConn. Don't get me started about all the reasons why that is a dumb move, and why we will come to regret it.[/quote]

They already have what will likely be 2 Q1 wins (@ St. Louis and neutral vs Iowa St). Very few teams can say that. A couple baskets go their way and everyone would be penciling them into the Final Four now.

The only reason they've been a bit disappointing thus far is because they've lost the 50-50 games (by a combined 5 points). Just think about St. John's and how depressing the board would be right now if we lost that 50-50 game to WVU. Hall has just been unlucky but soon they'll start winning the close games. Thus far all of their wins have been by at least 8 points (and most by much more). The advanced analytics are strongly in their favor.

Also, going to disagree on UConn but won't get into that. Great addition.
 
Last edited:
Gents - Read that NYT article before you high five each other about UConn joining the conference. Their recruiting has already picked up and it will only go up from there.

And don't say that their national championship days are over. Who even saw their first rise coming? They were a complete afterthought in the BE in the 80's. We routinely routed them. No one thought Calhoun would do what he did. But they hired the right coach (Calhoun is a shyster for sure, but still a great coach) and within five years they were on their way to elite status and they stayed there for more than twenty years.

They've stolen two recruits from us over the years, they are a mulitple NCAA violator, and they have access to bottomless taxpayer resources. By all means let's throw them a life raft!

Plus, they have no loyalty. They were sniffing around for ways to leave the BE for years, but no one would have them. If there is another round of realignment, and the ACC comes calling, they will be the first ones out the door.

I have no idea what they bring to the conference. They are out in the boonies with no TV market, they have been a middling program at best since 2014, and they aren't exactly Harvard academically. They bring nothing to the Big East.
 
[quote="RedmanMike" post=367031]Gents - Read that NYT article before you high five each other about UConn joining the conference. Their recruiting has already picked up and it will only go up from there.

And don't say that their national championship days are over. Who even saw their first rise coming? They were a complete afterthought in the BE in the 80's. We routinely routed them. No one thought Calhoun would do what he did. But they hired the right coach (Calhoun is a shyster for sure, but still a great coach) and within five years they were on their way to elite status and they stayed there for more than twenty years.

They've stolen two recruits from us over the years, they are a mulitple NCAA violator, and they have access to bottomless taxpayer resources. By all means let's throw them a life raft!

Plus, they have no loyalty. They were sniffing around for ways to leave the BE for years, but no one would have them. If there is another round of realignment, and the ACC comes calling, they will be the first ones out the door.

I have no idea what they bring to the conference. They are out in the boonies with no TV market, they have been a middling program at best since 2014, and they aren't exactly Harvard academically. They bring nothing to the Big East.[/quote]

This is utter nonsense. You act like they are new.

You do realize they were a BE member for decades winning in the 90's and 2000's at a rate commensurate with a big time power. This all occurred despite of the things you said about them just now were the same. If everything you said were true then why did they have so much success when the BE was for years the elite conference in the country.
 
[quote="RedmanMike" post=367031]Gents - Read that NYT article before you high five each other about UConn joining the conference. Their recruiting has already picked up and it will only go up from there.

And don't say that their national championship days are over. Who even saw their first rise coming? They were a complete afterthought in the BE in the 80's. We routinely routed them. No one thought Calhoun would do what he did. But they hired the right coach (Calhoun is a shyster for sure, but still a great coach) and within five years they were on their way to elite status and they stayed there for more than twenty years.

They've stolen two recruits from us over the years, they are a mulitple NCAA violator, and they have access to bottomless taxpayer resources. By all means let's throw them a life raft!

Plus, they have no loyalty. They were sniffing around for ways to leave the BE for years, but no one would have them. If there is another round of realignment, and the ACC comes calling, they will be the first ones out the door.

I have no idea what they bring to the conference. They are out in the boonies with no TV market, they have been a middling program at best since 2014, and they aren't exactly Harvard academically. They bring nothing to the Big East.[/quote]

So it's a bad thing that they are recruiting well? Their 2020 recruiting class is currently ranked #45. There are 3 Big East teams well ahead of them in the top 18. Again, we could go back and forth on this for the next few pages, but your mind is already made up so I'll just disagree. I love the addition.
 
[quote="Adam" post=367033][quote="RedmanMike" post=367031]Gents - Read that NYT article before you high five each other about UConn joining the conference. Their recruiting has already picked up and it will only go up from there.

And don't say that their national championship days are over. Who even saw their first rise coming? They were a complete afterthought in the BE in the 80's. We routinely routed them. No one thought Calhoun would do what he did. But they hired the right coach (Calhoun is a shyster for sure, but still a great coach) and within five years they were on their way to elite status and they stayed there for more than twenty years.

They've stolen two recruits from us over the years, they are a mulitple NCAA violator, and they have access to bottomless taxpayer resources. By all means let's throw them a life raft!

Plus, they have no loyalty. They were sniffing around for ways to leave the BE for years, but no one would have them. If there is another round of realignment, and the ACC comes calling, they will be the first ones out the door.

I have no idea what they bring to the conference. They are out in the boonies with no TV market, they have been a middling program at best since 2014, and they aren't exactly Harvard academically. They bring nothing to the Big East.[/quote]

So it's a bad thing that they are recruiting well? Their 2020 recruiting class is currently ranked #45. There are 3 Big East teams well ahead of them in the top 18. Again, we could go back and forth on this for the next few pages, but your mind is already made up so I'll just disagree. I love the addition.[/quote]

Right...it's not like they're recruiting like Duke. Just because they had a golden era in the old Big East winning rings all over the place doesn't mean that will continue. There's much more parity now IMO and programs like PC, SHU, and even us are not pushovers like we were in the old conference. I can see them being good even very good but not unbeatable like a top 5 team. NYC area recruits that are high 4 and 5 star kids don't want to be here anyway, so who cares? We need to move on from that. If good NYC area recruits want to stay home then great. 99% don't so let them go. We need a national recruiting scope if we want to be seen as a national program. Also doesn't help commuter school rep if all we do is recruit within 75 miles of campus.

Bottom line, if they get any amazing NYC area talent, they weren't coming to us regardless. They do not have any real negative impact on our recruiting. They are actually having a positive effect taking Wilson off our hands!
 
Last edited:
We can debate the pros and cons of admitting Conn into the big east but if you were the AD at Conn the long range plan ( 5 yrs or so ) has to be:
1 get admitted to the big east
2 raise the profile of the men's basketball program to where it passes that of Syracuse which is starting to fall
3 keep the pathetic football program going until the ACC or some other league desires an eastern team and then bolt the big east no matter what the penalty
4 become the Rutgers of whatever league accepts them, getting humiliated every Sat in football but get to cash that check that comes with the football participation which is enormous and looks like it will keep getting bigger
 
It's a long season. Let's see what happens with Seton Hall. I still think they will be a very tough team once Mamu gets healthy.
Kind of funny how quickly thinks can change in college hoops. I remember before the season started the Board speculating that our Butler home opener would be extremely important since it was a very winnable game against a team picked along with us and Depaul to finish at the bottom of the league. Right now they are undefeated and the highest nationally ranked team from the BE and Depaul also looking much better than originally anticipated. I find it hard to pick a team in BE that will dominate in league play. Going to be an interesting year with lots of great BE games.
 
[quote="Enright" post=367037]We can debate the pros and cons of admitting Conn into the big east but if you were the AD at Conn the long range plan ( 5 yrs or so ) has to be:
1 get admitted to the big east
2 raise the profile of the men's basketball program to where it passes that of Syracuse which is starting to fall
3 keep the pathetic football program going until the ACC or some other league desires an eastern team and then bolt the big east no matter what the penalty
4 become the Rutgers of whatever league accepts them, getting humiliated every Sat in football but get to cash that check that comes with the football participation which is enormous and looks like it will keep getting bigger[/quote]

Even in that worst case scenario, the Big East would still get $30 million in exit fees and we'd be right back to where we've been the past 5 years. A little embarrassing, but that's it.

The ACC also needs to focus on football given how mediocre they were this year. They were actually behind the American in the conference rankings. Their basketball, which makes considerably less money than football, is doing more than fine. UConn football is awful and thus they won't be going after UConn anytime soon. If they wanted them they would've taken them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top