Around the Big East 19/20

Seton Hall can easily be 7-5 (losses to Rutgers & Maryland plus a win over PV) heading into conference play. If so, They will likely need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a few wins in the BET which is always super difficult. Do you realize they may not even make the tournament? That's not even a given now.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366907]Seton Hall can easily be 7-5 (losses to Rutgers & Maryland plus a win over PV) heading into conference play. If so, They will likely need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a few wins in the BET which is always super difficult. Do you realize they may not even make the tournament? That's not even a given now.[/quote]

They lost to Michigan St. and Oregon by a combined FIVE points, and now they may not make the tournament? Let's pump the brakes on Seton's Halls demise and worry about our team.
 
[quote="AlexSTJ" post=366910][quote="Mike Zaun" post=366907]Seton Hall can easily be 7-5 (losses to Rutgers & Maryland plus a win over PV) heading into conference play. If so, They will likely need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a few wins in the BET which is always super difficult. Do you realize they may not even make the tournament? That's not even a given now.[/quote]

They lost to Michigan St. and Oregon by a combined FIVE points, and now they may not make the tournament? Let's pump the brakes on Seton's Halls demise and worry about our team.[/quote]

Yeah maybe not. That's not crazy to say especially if they lose their next 2. No one cares how much you lose by...a loss is still a loss. That's partially my point...the team of almost but never good enough. If they finish OOC 7-5 they will need to dominate the Big East in a year where literally everyone but PC looks strong. 10 conference wins would put them at 17 wins. 11 puts them at 18 and 12 puts them at 19. Even with 12 wins they will probably need to win a BET game or two. Still early obviously, but compared to how they started out (talk of them being a legit top 10-12 team all season) they are in the danger zone. If they win the next 2 then that will be huge for them.
 
Mike Zaun, Seton Hall has the # 1 OOC strength of schedule . Also, any road game is always tough especially against a power 5 school on the road with a team that has a lottery player. They have zero bad losses they aren't in any danger at all. Seton Hall has made 4 straight NCAA tourneys and have a big east championship to their name during that time . What you are trying to say doesn't really make sense
 
[quote="SigEpSJU09" post=366912]Mike Zaun, Seton Hall has the # 1 OOC strength of schedule . Also, any road game is always tough especially against a power 5 school on the road with a team that has a lottery player. They have zero bad losses they aren't in any danger at all. Seton Hall has made 4 straight NCAA tourneys and have a big east championship to their name during that time . What you are trying to say doesn't really make sense[/quote]

No bad losses and also no really good wins. I'm sure they will knock off some ranked Big East teams, but it usually seems to mean more when you get a W or 2 against a top notch OOC opponent. I doubt they run through the conference like Nova did early on. Even their fan base was expecting a top 4 seed in the tourney and being ranked all year. Now they are about to get bumped from rankings and it looks like their ceiling is the same as last year which is making the tourney as a 7 seed or worse and losing right away. Then Powell is gone. I don't think many of you truly understand how badly their OOC performance is going to affect their seeding and how much pressure it will put on them to dominate conference play. They absolutely should've had top 4 seed type aspirations but those are bleak now and the only chance they can revive them is winning at least the Maryland game if not their next 2 then handling conference play. Most likely they make the tourney but they go out immediately yet again. That was not what their expectations were. I'm not saying they're an awful program that we are better than. I'm speaking about their results vs. what they expected. Right now they are certainly not the same.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366907]Seton Hall can easily be 7-5 (losses to Rutgers & Maryland plus a win over PV) heading into conference play. If so, They will likely need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a few wins in the BET which is always super difficult. Do you realize they may not even make the tournament? That's not even a given now.[/quote]

Serious question cause I don’t know, were they favored in any of their 3 loses? They lost to the #1 team another top 15 team on a neutral and a big 12 team they already played ON THE ROAD. Obviously if you’re the hall you want to win all those games but what you’re implying is that their season is done already. Not even close!
 
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[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=366914][quote="Mike Zaun" post=366907]Seton Hall can easily be 7-5 (losses to Rutgers & Maryland plus a win over PV) heading into conference play. If so, They will likely need 11 or 12 wins in conference plus a few wins in the BET which is always super difficult. Do you realize they may not even make the tournament? That's not even a given now.[/quote]

Serious question cause I don’t know, were they favored in any of their 3 loses? They lost to the #1 team another top 15 team on a neutral and a big 12 team they already played ON THE ROAD. Obviously if you’re the hall you want to win all those games but what you’re implying is that their season is done already. Not even close![/quote]

i can speak for yesterdays game and they were 3.5 point underdogs
 
Hey everybody, raise your hand if you legitimately thought seton hall was the best team in the conference this year just cause they got voted #1 preseason
 
Zaun I’m on only gonna say this one more time. Stop getting hung up on this season. Sure MCNPA, I’m sure their fans have high expectations this year, they were preseason ranked #13 and picked to win the Big East. But this season isn’t a failure yet just because they lost 3 tough games where they weren’t even favored. So again, let’s put this season to the side for the sake of the argument.

I ask everyone here. Gun to your head, has seton hall fared below where they were expected the last decade? That’s my question. Is it a consistent thing with their program over the last 6-7 years that they don’t rise to the occasion? I say no, but maybe I’m alone here?
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=366924]Zaun I’m on only gonna say this one more time. Stop getting hung up on this season. Sure MCNPA, I’m sure their fans have high expectations this year, they were preseason ranked #13 and picked to win the Big East. But this season isn’t a failure yet just because they lost 3 tough games where they weren’t even favored. So again, let’s put this season to the side for the sake of the argument.

I ask everyone here. Gun to your head, has seton hall fared below where they were expected the last decade? That’s my question. Is it a consistent thing with their program over the last 6-7 years that they don’t rise to the occasion? I say no, but maybe I’m alone here?[/quote]

You’re not alone
 
New AP Top 25:

#18 Butler
#20 Villanova
#22 Seton Hall
#23 Xavier

RV: #30 Marquette & DePaul got one vote

Pretty awesome to have half the league in the top 30.
 
Nice to see so many BE teams ranked, but two factors; it is early and more importantly the “cannibalistic” nature of the league will imo produce a lot of losses & impact the two polls. There are no dominant teams & most home teams will be favored. Thus, I suspect more than being a tremendously powerful league nationally it will be an enormously competitive one, likely fiercest in NCAA in that respect. In this scenario, perhaps solid BE seeding in Dance will be difficult w so much parity.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=366924]Zaun I’m on only gonna say this one more time. Stop getting hung up on this season. Sure MCNPA, I’m sure their fans have high expectations this year, they were preseason ranked #13 and picked to win the Big East. But this season isn’t a failure yet just because they lost 3 tough games where they weren’t even favored. So again, let’s put this season to the side for the sake of the argument.

I ask everyone here. Gun to your head, has seton hall fared below where they were expected the last decade? That’s my question. Is it a consistent thing with their program over the last 6-7 years that they don’t rise to the occasion? I say no, but maybe I’m alone here?[/quote]

Unfortunately, Zaun rarely ever does his homework and tends to react on emotion.

Seton Hall basically has fared about relative to where they've been predicted in the past decade with a handful of exceptions. I thought they seriously collapsed during the '14'-15 season. Overachieved during the '15-'16 season. Slightly underachieved during the '17-'18 season. Definitely overachieved last season.

This season isn't at all a failure with their team. At least, not yet. There's still too much season left to call it a failure. They've lost tightly, fought games to two, highly-ranked teams in Michigan State and Oregon, respectively. They still get a chance at another highly-ranked opponent versus Maryland in 10 days. Of course, we still have the conference season and postseason.

The only thing I've said about their program in the past decade has they've been consistently inconsistent. But they've basically fared relative to where they've been prognosticated.
 
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[quote="fuchsia" post=366933]A few of us go back to Gunter and Hicks and the no-conscience play of Nick Werkman.[/quote]

First Hall player that comes to mind for me is Mel "the Marvel" Knight.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=366931]Nice to see so many BE teams ranked, but two factors; it is early and more importantly the “cannibalistic” nature of the league will imo produce a lot of losses & impact the two polls. There are no dominant teams & most home teams will be favored. Thus, I suspect more than being a tremendously powerful league nationally it will be an enormously competitive one, likely fiercest in NCAA in that respect. In this scenario, perhaps solid BE seeding in Dance will be difficult w so much parity.[/quote]

Very true, but still far, far better than a year ago today when only Nova was ranked (around #20). Marquette also got into the rankings in late December.

Also, this year everyone (besides Providence) is good enough to get ranked themselves with a big win or two. For instance, if Big East play started today and Marquette beat Seton Hall, then Hall would drop out but Marquette would get ranked. If Georgetown/Creighton/DePaul started 2-0 with 2 ranked wins, then they'd get ranked, too.
 
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It is a good discussion, re the cannibalistic nature of the Big East. Having a strong conference top to bottom, you could argue it hurts a lot of our teams when it comes to March.

for example, Duke, UNC, Virginia, these teams are essentially assured a top 4 seed in the tournament because they are basically guaranteed 10+ conference wins a season.

Look at how Duke starts ACC play this season.

vs V Tech - WIN
vs Boston College
@Miami
@Georgia Tech
vs Wake
@ Clemson
vs Louisville
vs Miami
vs Pitt

Other than L'Ville, Duke really should be breezing through ACC play and cruising to a 1 or 2 seed.

Then you get a team like Xavier, clear tournament team and very deep but if they go 11-7 in Big East play which is entirely possible, they probably will get a 6-7 seed and the path to the second weekend becomes more difficult.

I love our conference and how deep we are but it is kind of a catch 22 for us. Take pride in being such a well balanced league but it will cost us in our seeding from time to time.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=366944]It is a good discussion, re the cannibalistic nature of the Big East. Having a strong conference top to bottom, you could argue it hurts a lot of our teams when it comes to March.

for example, Duke, UNC, Virginia, these teams are essentially assured a top 4 seed in the tournament because they are basically guaranteed 10+ conference wins a season.

Look at how Duke starts ACC play this season.

vs V Tech - WIN
vs Boston College
@Miami
@Georgia Tech
vs Wake
@ Clemson
vs Louisville
vs Miami
vs Pitt

Other than L'Ville, Duke really should be breezing through ACC play and cruising to a 1 or 2 seed.

Then you get a team like Xavier, clear tournament team and very deep but if they go 11-7 in Big East play which is entirely possible, they probably will get a 6-7 seed and the path to the second weekend becomes more difficult.

I love our conference and how deep we are but it is kind of a catch 22 for us. Take pride in being such a well balanced league but it will cost us in our seeding from time to time.[/quote]

Idk I disagree a bit. Teams like duke and UNC are gonna get 10+ wins in any conference including the BE. Personally, If you take any of the BE teams sans maybe nova and put them in the ACC, I think their chance of making the tourney/high seed line would decrease. Just look at how sju, the hall, Providence etc struggled year to year in the last version of the BE. In any conference each night one time will win and one team will lose. Round robin doesn’t change that.
 
Really tough news for Mamu and the Pirates. He is by far their second best player. Always hate to see serious injuries like this as these kids only have so much time to enjoy living their dream.
 
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