Around the Big East 19/20

[quote="AlexSTJ" post=366040][quote="MJDinkins" post=366035][quote="AlexSTJ" post=366032]Georgetown is the only team I think we can finish above this season after their recent departures. They just beat a great OK State team on the road...

It's gonna be a loooooooonnnnnggggg season folks...[/quote]

A "great" Oklahoma State team? Really? I'll say a "good" Oklahoma State team, but that's about it.

Once again, it's still quite early in the season and things can change (one way or another) once conference play starts. It may be a looooonnnngggg season for us, but we really don't know that as of yet. Not to mention, we have a piece of the puzzle that has yet to suit up.[/quote]

They were undefeated and ranked top 25 on Kenpom before losing at home to Gtown. I think we are going to struggle mightily in conference play because of our lack of competent offensive guards. Size means nothing in amateur ball if your backcourt can't get you the ball. I hope I am wrong but time and time again great guard play has trumped everything, all else being equal.[/quote]

I don't care where Oklahoma State was ranked on Kenpom. IMO, they aren't a great team as you stated a lil earlier. I don't consider any team to be "great" at this juncture of the season, and I've watched a lot of college hoops in this first month.

I'm just careful about taking one game or even a few games in the early season and running with it. I've watched this sport for a long, long time, and have seen things come to an abrupt halt or a team suddenly find themselves once conference play starts. Some teams will be able to sustain their good play throughout the duration, while a small faction won't do so and vice-versa.

We just might struggle badly throughout the season, but I'm not gonna be so quick to say that's what will transpire. I'll also reserve judgement on what our guards are capable of doing re: getting the ball to players. Name one current eligible player who you have confidence in with the ball down low at this point.

As much as I love how Roberts has played thus far, he's not someone you can count on unless it's practically a dunk. I don't know what Steere will bring to the table, but I'm more than willing to give him an opportunity. And, I think he may be what the doctor ordered when it comes to someone giving us a real viable option down low. Maybe our guards will (or won't) be able to get him the ball, but there's no one truly worthy of receiving the ball on the blocks that's currently eligible.

I'll also add that in some cases team's who were or are in a similar position like Georgetown will come out swinging and with more focus. They aren't exactly devoid of talent because Akinjo and LeBlanc is no longer apart of the team. LeBlanc's minutes had been reduced and Akinjo may have been a cancer in the locker room. I mentioned a few days ago that Akinjo looked out of control and erratic in his play. He was still putting up decent numbers, but his play was off. He also seemed aloof in the team huddle during the latter stages of the Hoyas' loss to UNC-G.

Maybe, losing those two were addition by subtraction. But let's see how they handle things long-term before taking so much from one game, albeit a solid win.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=366034]You have to love what’s going on down there in Chicago.

DePaul has been bad for so long. Just happy for them and any long suffering fans of the program[/quote]

Man, me too. I have a soft spot for DePaul. I always pull for them when they're not playing us. They deserve some happiness and their starting 5 is legitimately very good (I'm a little worried about their lack of depth) DePaul and Butler outperforming expectations is really great for the conference which is good for us. What a great night for the league. 5-0 and we go up 2-0 in the Big 12 Challenge. Hopefully we can do our part.
 
As echoed here, very impressed when I've watched Depaul this year. I feel if he wanted to, Paul Reed could take over games, putting up good numbers, but he can be the best player on the floor every night.
 
Depaul leads BE teams in steals & blocks and second (to SJU) in rebounding. Obviously early and compiled against non conference competition, but still impressive.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=366070]Depaul leads BE teams in steals & blocks and second (to SJU) in rebounding. Obviously early and complied against non conference competition, but still impressive.[/quote]
Amazing what an impact a very competent PG can have in short order. Posh in time should have like effect for Johnnies.
 
Dink,

I respect your opinion, but Kenpom is arguably the best metric system for ranking all D1 teams. The top 5 BE teams are ranked in the top 30. 9 teams are all in the top 60 (Bubble Range). Where are we after beating St. Peter's by 10? 100.

The difference in rankings between the 1st (Hall) and 9th (Prov) BE team is 44 spots. The difference between 9th and St. John's? 42. The analytics prove my point correct but I hope you are right in regards to things changing once conference play starts.
 
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Moose- the first 4 games between the BE/BXII (played prior to last night) don't count towards this challenge. Unlike the Gavitt Games, which come before nearly everyone plays their first real opponent, these games occur after we've already played 4 games with the conference. Also they're spread out over the course of a few weeks rather than 1 week.

Regardless, we're now 2-0 in the challenge and 5-1 overall vs the BXII. Excellent results!

As for last night, really happy to see Georgetown and DePaul pull off those big time wins. Would've been very happy with 4-1, but 5-0 is huge.
 
KenPom still has a ton of the preseason expectations baked in. The best metric will be when NET releases in a couple weeks. That said, our NET will probably be around 75-90. Providence should be much worse.
 
If G'Town can beat undefeated OSU without several starters and DePaul can beat 4 F5 teams, then maybe we can beat WVU. We may not be ready, but I feel we have enough talent to do it this year. If we can do that and show up in enough conference games, we can make the NIT realistically. If CMA can make that in year 1 that will be an amazing sign. At this stage, yes WVU is probably likely to beat us...but look at the other teams I mentioned above that were supposed to have a little chance and did it. We need to exceed expectations a lot more if we want fans to come out in droves. Start by beating WVU...find a way. Other teams do.
 
[quote="AlexSTJ" post=366079]Dink,

I respect your opinion, but Kenpom is arguably the best metric system for ranking all D1 teams. The top 5 BE teams are ranked in the top 30. 9 teams are all in the top 60 (Bubble Range). Where are we after beating St. Peter's by 10? 100.

The difference in rankings between the 1st (Hall) and 9th (Prov) BE team is 44 spots. The difference between 9th and St. John's? 42. The analytics prove my point correct but I hope you are right in regards to things changing once conference play starts.[/quote]

The analytics part of it is good when it comes to determining NCAA Tournament invitees and where one should be placed seeding-wise. So, it does have its value.

But there's something I like to use called the "eye test." I also like to use patterns and how things are translatable. My eyes tell me based on what I've seen from all of the Big East teams, so far, this season that there's serious potential we may struggle once conference play begins.

But we also do some things well that may translate well once we begin conference play. Our pattern of missing freebies could haunt us at the season progresses. That's something we can definitely control as you're not being guarded at the FT line.

I'm just saying before making such absolute prognostications that you could at least wait 'till we've played a handful of conference games and a significant piece (Steere) of the puzzle has suited up.

Again, the initial argument had to do with a "great" Oklahoma State team. It's all subjective, I guess. But I don't use the word "great" loosely. IMO, there aren't any "great" teams from what I've witnessed this season. At least, none at this moment.

In regards to the analytics.... It has its usefulness but I watch AND have watched enough games to where I use my own personal metrics to how I determine the play of teams.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=366090]If G'Town can beat undefeated OSU without several starters and DePaul can beat 4 F5 teams, then maybe we can beat WVU. We may not be ready, but I feel we have enough talent to do it this year. If we can do that and show up in enough conference games, we can make the NIT realistically. If CMA can make that in year 1 that will be an amazing sign. At this stage, yes WVU is probably likely to beat us...but look at the other teams I mentioned above that were supposed to have a little chance and did it. We need to exceed expectations a lot more if we want fans to come out in droves. Start by beating WVU...find a way. Other teams do.[/quote]

Technically, Georgetown was missing one starter (Akinjo) who seemed to be creating strife. Oklahoma State was also missing one starter in Issac Likekele. He may have been the best player on the floor if he had suited up.
Regardless, Georgetown came away with a solid win--on the road.

We may very well lose to West Virginia, but I sometimes think you put too much value on singular games and then use it in an attempt to extrapolate scenarios. Of course, I wanna win Saturday's game as I wanna win each and every game. It'll also be solid win against what's considered to be a top 35 opponent. But there's a still a long season ahead and there could be a surprise or two awaiting.
 
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I like a lot of what I've seen this season and I tend toward optimism especially early season. Realistically however we don't matchup well with any team in the BE and we don't have a reliable scorer nor a lock down defender. Our most reliable player is a very surprising freshman and our senior team leader is foul prone and has disappeared for multi-game stretches. We don't make free throws. Pretty hard to see even a single Big East win at this point.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=366098]I like a lot of what I've seen this season and I tend toward optimism especially early season. Realistically however we don't matchup well with any team in the BE and we don't have a reliable scorer nor a lock down defender. Our most reliable player is a very surprising freshman and our senior team leader is foul prone and has disappeared for multi-game stretches. We don't make free throws. Pretty hard to see even a single Big East win at this point.[/quote] We will get some wins. But if you ask the question, which team can we finish ahead of, you may be able to make an argument for a last place finish.
 
[quote="Adam" post=366089]KenPom still has a ton of the preseason expectations baked in. The best metric will be when NET releases in a couple weeks. That said, our NET will probably be around 75-90. Providence should be much worse.[/quote]

KenPom is fun in the pre-season and becomes useful in the 2nd half of the current season. As Adam correctly points out there's far too much of last season baked in this early on. If you doubt that, just know that Michigan State is still #4 in KenPom (includes the Duke loss) and beating last year's champs Virginia yesterday rocketed a 5-3 Purdue team (with loses to Marquette, Texas & FSU) up to #5. I really like KenPom but it doesn't mean much yet. Until NET comes out if you want to debate rankings it's all about eye test and comparing good wins/bad losses.

I agree with Dinkins that there's no definitively "great" teams yet. However, Ohio State is beginning to intrigue me. The only two good teams they've played are Nova & UNC but both of those games were very convincing blowouts.They play Kentucky in a couple of weeks.They should get there still undefeated and if they win it'll start becoming an interesting discussion. I've only watched the Nova game but they looked very good.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the Hoyas played Gardner and Alexander last night, both of whom have ciivil lawsuits and restraining orders against them as part of the scandal that broke. Georgetown administration must be backing Ewing on this. Interesting.
 
[quote="Adam" post=366088]Moose- the first 4 games between the BE/BXII (played prior to last night) don't count towards this challenge. Unlike the Gavitt Games, which come before nearly everyone plays their first real opponent, these games occur after we've already played 4 games with the conference. Also they're spread out over the course of a few weeks rather than 1 week.

Regardless, we're now 2-0 in the challenge and 5-1 overall vs the BXII. Excellent results!

As for last night, really happy to see Georgetown and DePaul pull off those big time wins. Would've been very happy with 4-1, but 5-0 is huge.[/quote]

OK so what you're saying is the BE/BXII games that were not part of the BE/BXII Challenge games don't count into the BE/BXII Challenge results. But how about the mutual opponents of BE/BXII teams. Do those count into the results? ;)
 
4 star recruit Terrance Williams is reopening his recruitment after initially committing to Georgetown.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=366125]4 star recruit Terrance Williams is reopening his recruitment after initially committing to Georgetown.[/quote]

Wow. Big loss. 4 star Jamari Sibley just committed to them earlier in the week right before all the news broke. Wonder how much he was aware of the situation.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=366125]4 star recruit Terrance Williams is reopening his recruitment after initially committing to Georgetown.[/quote]

Do BE rules bar us from persuing him?
 
[quote="Knight" post=366137][quote="Paultzman" post=366125]4 star recruit Terrance Williams is reopening his recruitment after initially committing to Georgetown.[/quote]

Do BE rules bar us from persuing him?[/quote]

He never signed, so he's free to commit to any Big East team. Watch out for Michigan with Williams.
 
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