Adios Tariq

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[quote="fan5577" post=276919][quote="Beast of the East" post=276885][quote="redken" post=276883][quote="Beast of the East" post=276881]Reality is on a team like Nova he'd be no more than a rotation player if that. 6 11 and no post game, got pushed around like a rag doll by Delgado, that is when he wasn't 20 feet from.basket. If he wants to be the featured pl Ayer on offense, go to a low mid major or d2 whete he can rule the paint. Not a Mullin problem, just another kid who thinks his stock is amazon.[/quote]
Beast, the problem isn't as much his absence as it is who'll replace him in the middle. Right now we've no one other than an untested Keita.[/quote]

I agree. This isnt a kid who didn't get his chance hes a kid whose dad thinks should be the focal point on offense. To me , the further he moved from the basket the less valuable he becomes . It's clear he thinks his future is out there. Let him go to Georgetown so he can be coached by a guy who was a college monster on defense who lived 20 feet from the basket in the NBA[/quote]

This is my question; do you think it might be the lack of a "big man coach"? We have 2 HOF guards on the staff but no one who, in his fathers mind, can coach a big man to the next level .
To me this came out of nowhere. I was looking forward to watching him next year. His dad's statement is complimentary of the coaches, MAYBE he is looking for someone who he believes can better help a "big man"?[/quote]

We need to stop recruiting the athletic but unskilled OSNA type bigs. The ones who come to high major college hoops with zero inside offense and get blown over by the ocean breeze. I'd rather a kid who is 6'10 240 lbs with some skill that can grow over 4 years but has a 3" vertical. Are those recruits really not interested in us, or do we not know how to identify them? I have a hard time believing the former. I gave Matt a ton of credit early on especially for getting a kid like Ponds and he also gave us 2 very solid transfers in Simon and Clark. But he seems to be running on E. I think what is happening is similar to the end of Lavin's tenure. Solid recruiting early on selling hope and potential. They sold the future. But then the recruits see that the potential is not realized and they take notice. Eventually, "next season" actually has to pan out and so far it has not. Losing a core player for next year is already trending us in the wrong direction. We need to get all hands on deck and find a way to get 2-3 solid bigs to transfer.
 
There are many reasons behind this stunning decision (which I hope T.O retracts). One, the 11-game losing streak wore on the players more than us fans and likely hollowed out ‘team spirit’—sparking instead the ‘survival instinct’ to leave.
Why now, when IF the core 4 stayed, the future looks much brighter—given even what is known to be ‘on board’ is puzzling—but goes back to the losing streak as well as the talent level of these kids and the financial needs of the families
LoVett, Owens, Ponds are 4* players with aspirations—real or not—to become pro basketball players.
Their families share this dream—and in the cases of Paters LoVett and Owens, it consumes them.
I also think we should recruit more lunch pail guys to go with 4* kids; kids who would stay for 4 years and develop as students and players.
 
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A few points:

1. Very sorry to see this as TO was a spark and a hard-working guy. Important to our success next year. Exacerbates our already-existing weakness.

2. Hard to see how this helps him as I agree with many of the above sentiments. He was a starter, got plenty of minutes and fit in here when other teams may not have the same niche for him to fill (big man outside shooter).

3. Other big man transfers from here have NOT fared better (i.e., the grass is not always greener): Obepka; Sima; Williams

4. Many of the ins and outs have had strange twists on them that I am not sure can be blamed on the coaching staff. Wilson, Lovett, Owens, and all have family influence at the center. Most here would not question the other transfers we've had: Mussini (most thought he'd only stay a few years to go play abroad); Fruedenberg and Ellison (most thought that they were not suited for this level of play). So, while the level of annual change is disconcerting, I think that is a reflection of the fragile state of the program, the kinds of (maybe somewhat flakey) kids/reaches we are forced to resort to, etc. Overall, despite the changes, out talent level has increased year over year, and it looks (unless Ponds leaves) that would be the same next year; now with Owens departure maybe not so much.

5. The father's statement just shows that many of these kids look at going to school as a sidebar to their true primary focus is playing basketball at the next level, as realistic as that may or may not be depending on the kid. I know he is graduating (apparently), but the "free agent" mentality is a little shocking. Maybe it shouldn't be.

6. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the recruiting of at least 2 immediately available bigs for next year, and a lot of question into whether or not we can truly take a step up next year as we had hoped. Hopefully Matt and CM won't whiff on the targets that they have, as last year. Can't afford that.
 
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I don't understand this from TO's point of view. What will transferring and playing somewhere else do for him? That will be 3 schools. He is already playing major minutes at a major conference school. He couldn't ask for more. This can't be about TO playing in the NBA can it? That is never going to happen. Is he thinking about getting a better offer in China or Europe? What is the point?
I was very impressed/admired TO and how hard he has worked to become a better player. It looked like his father was involved in a very positive way with his son. Now I am starting to believe that I should not have drawn such a hasty conclusion from afar. Someone must be delusional about this kids future. It is all very sad and frustrating. I wish them luck.
 
Don't think it is delusional that he can play overseas, but not in the NBA. So, given that, I too don't see any benefit to him leaving. He will probably play overseas in any event and it is VERY unlikely he gets a better situation elsewhere..

[quote="sjc88" post=276926]I don't understand this from TO's point of view. What will transferring and playing somewhere else do for him? That will be 3 schools. He is already playing major minutes at a major conference school. He couldn't ask for more. This can't be about TO playing in the NBA can it? That is never going to happen. Is he thinking about getting a better offer in China or Europe? What is the point?
I was very impressed/admired TO and how hard he has worked to become a better player. It looked like his father was involved in a very positive way with his son. Now I am starting to believe that I should not have drawn such a hasty conclusion from afar. Someone must be delusional about this kids future. It is all very sad and frustrating. I wish them luck.[/quote]
 
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[quote="panther2" post=276914]I do not agree with Owens' asking for his release and think that it is a very bad idea. His skill set is unique and I do not believe that one year at any other school is going to help him. There is a chemistry that has formed within in the team that has allowed him to be somewhat successful. His success is dependent on the players around him. To develop this trust and cohesion takes time and if he transfers, he will not have it.

However, what I find hypocritical is that some of the posters on this site that are castigating him and his father, are the same ones lead the charge to get rid of a player when he does not perform up to "their" expectations. Commitment is a two way street.[/quote]

I hear exactly what you are saying and I agree, but as you know I am supportive of our team and coaches. When they fail to perform on the court because of limitations in ability, it generally is what it is. Exploring his 3rd team for 4 years of eligibility is within his rights, but jeez, after two schools, don't you think looking in the mirror and realizing what your ability actually is works. Schools commit to players for 4 years. The best players see it as one and done. The rest honor their commitment so long as it is working out for them, and that's fine. In this case, it wasn't about minutes, it appears to be about touches. This is for a 6'11 kid who can't catch it with his back to the basket in the post and do something with the ball, even with a 3 inch advantage. Yes, he has a soft touch from outside, but there is a reason who recruits bigs and littles. The bigs rebound, provide interior defense, and score around the basket.

Owens could block shots. No question. But when you think about it, nearly all were the ambush type. Crash the basket and not block his own man's shot, but smother a layup from someone else's man. Even when compared to Obekpa, a limited defensive player, Owens altered very few shots, and never shut down his own man.

Yes, I'd take him in a heartbeat on this roster, but on our very good tourney teams, this kids wouldn't start.

What would make him happy enough to not consider leaving? probably 15 shots per game, which wasn't going to, and shouldn't happen. Yes, this is a problem, and yes he is clearly within his rights, but an occasional alley oop dunk off a nifty pass doesn't make you an inside threat at 6'11. Think about it - by age he is a senior. Would he be drafted in the first 4 rounds if the NBA draft went that deep? I'd say no. Will he ever see the NBA? Well, I've been surprised before, but right now he isn't even close to an NBA prospect.
 
I have to imagine they are seeking professional opportunities more than transferring to another school. He's turning 23 in June and there is only so many years you can earn serious income as an athlete. If there isn't any interest for a serious contract he will probably return. He's got a chance to showcase his skills with a legit big next year. Let's hope for the best.
 
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If that were true, I don't think he would need a release. he would simply graduate and go abroad to play.

[quote="alexander salem" post=276930]I have to imagine they are seeking professional opportunities more than transferring to another school. He's turning 23 in June and there is only so many years you can earn serious income as an athlete. If there isn't any interest for a serious contract he will probably return. He's got a chance to showcase his skills with a legit big next year. Let's hope for the best.[/quote]
 
[quote="redmanwest" post=276925]A few points:

1. Very sorry to see this as TO was a spark and a hard-working guy. Important to our success next year. Exacerbates our already-existing weakness.

2. Hard to see how this helps him as I agree with many of the above sentiments. He was a starter, got plenty of minutes and fit in here when other teams may not have the same niche for him to fill (big man outside shooter).

3. Other big man transfers from here have NOT fared better (i.e., the grass is not always greener): Obepka; Sima; Williams

4. Many of the ins and outs have had strange twists on them that I am not sure can be blamed on the coaching staff. Wilson, Lovett, Owens, and all have family influence at the center. Most here would not question the other transfers we've had: Mussini (most thought he'd only stay a few years to go play abroad); Fruedenberg and Ellison (most thought that they were not suited for this level of play). So, while the level of annual change is disconcerting, I think that is a reflection of the fragile state of the program, the kinds of (maybe somewhat flakey) kids/reaches we are forced to resort to, etc. Overall, despite the changes, out talent level has increased year over year, and it looks (unless Ponds leaves) that would be the same next year; now with Owens departure maybe not so much.

5. The father's statement just shows that many of these kids look at going to school as a sidebar to their true primary focus is playing basketball at the next level, as realistic as that may or may not be depending on the kid. I know he is graduating (apparently), but the "free agent" mentality is a little shocking. Maybe it shouldn't be.

6. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the recruiting of at least 2 immediately available bigs for next year, and a lot of question into whether or not we can truly take a step up next year as we had hoped. Hopefully Matt and CM won't whiff on the targets that they have, as last year. Can't afford that.[/quote]

Agree with #1, but saying this has absolutely nothing to do with our staff's failure thus far is like trying to hide a horse but other people can obviously see the tail sticking out. We have to be able to discuss the elephant. Which is more likely? This failure all randomly happening with tons and tons of consistent bad luck, or our staff being incapable to this point of creating and maintaining a winner? Again, they work their tails off...they are trying, but it's not working. Going into year 4 and already seeing the foundation for future excuses is very troubling and shows where we are as a program. If I were at the helm, I'd force staff changes for next year. Bring in a bigs coach and a real veteran assistant coach. Then have all hands on deck aggressively pursuing graduate transfer big men. I don't even care if they're DII at this point to be honest. Do they have size? Good. Some semblance of soft touch around basket? Good. Knows how to box out? Sign him up. Make sure we get at least 2. Then if we are not much better next year, I doubt the Mullin experiment will ever truly work at least to the point of being a consistent NCAA team. Is there an outside consultant we can hire? Maybe they can tell us what we are missing. I mean that seriously. I'm more of a problem-solver but to solve problems we need to acknowledge them. We all love Mully but let's be real, the experiment is on its last legs. Next year is going to tell us a lot. Really hope we get some luck for a change.
 
Tariq and father have got to understand that we have to move forward assuming he's gone. We don't have the luxury of waiting for him to "explore his options."
 
I thought about this a lot last night and if not for the warnings on this board this would come as a shock to me. I tried to look at the elements of this in no particular order as there are a lot of moving pieces here.

1. Being on a team that falls short of your expectations as a player - perhaps Owens wants to be on a team that plays in the NCAA tournament and Owens feels that won’t happen next year. That would be important to me if I was a player.
2. Not getting enough minutes as a player - not an issue here as he played 30 minutes a game this season and I see absolutely no reason to believe he won’t play similar numbers again next year.
3. Not playing the role you want - Owens has definitely improved his outside shooting this season and I see no reason he can’t improve it further - not sure how many other teams are going to feature him in role but who knows. Tons of teams may want him but more for what he is really good at which is great athleticism for his size and his ability to protect the rim. In that respect you can’t compare him to Sima as Owens is substantially better.
4. Not getting along with your teammates or not having a real bond with them - with so much roster turnover this could be a real issue. Who are our other seniors. Yawke is leaving and Clark appears to be extremely close to only Simon. Just pure speculation here but maybe he is close with Lovett who he sat out with or Yawke or maybe even Amar or Bashir and they will all be gone.
5. Not getting along with your coaches - I don’t see any issues with this unless he feels that Mullin plays favorites and doesn’t appreciate him.
6. Player development- this one concerns me. Maybe he feels a more experienced coach can best teach him or that the coaching staff hasn’t worked with him enough. While I am not saying the offense should run through him, I think he is a talented player and maybe he thinks someone else can get more out of him.
7. Playing with guys that can get him the ball - whether they are best buds or not he seems to have good chemistry with Ponds. As long as Ponds stays he will not have many better options out there.
8. Playing a style that suits the game he wants to play - if I understand this right this appears to be the perfect team.

I totally agree that we need a big man that plays the old fashioned way but I don’t see any scenario’s where we are better off without Tariq. Apologize for any speculation above if you got this far but feel really disappointed regardless of any of the above.
 
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"I totally agree that we need a big man that plays the old fashioned way but I don’t see any scenario’s where we are better off without Tariq."

Agreed 100%
 
[quote="redmanwest" post=276935]"I totally agree that we need a big man that plays the old fashioned way but I don’t see any scenario’s where we are better off without Tariq."

Agreed 100%[/quote]

Dixon and Keita must be balling in practice. Similar to the way Simon and Clark scared off guys last year. I wonder if Ellison and Williams regret transferring yet.

Kicked off the team at Nevada and the absolute debacle at Pitt. Amazing.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=276936][quote="redmanwest" post=276935]"I totally agree that we need a big man that plays the old fashioned way but I don’t see any scenario’s where we are better off without Tariq."

Agreed 100%[/quote]

Dixon and Keita must be balling in practice. Similar to the way Simon and Clark scared off guys last year. I wonder if Ellison and Williams regret transferring yet.

Kicked off the team at Nevada and the absolute debacle at Pitt. Amazing.[/quote]

Dixon has been good, I think many are expecting too much from Keita next year and regardless, he would be the 5 and Owens the 4 with Clark the 3.
 
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I have heard that Keita will surprise people, but ...???

[quote="SJU85" post=276937][quote="alexander salem" post=276936][quote="redmanwest" post=276935]"I totally agree that we need a big man that plays the old fashioned way but I don’t see any scenario’s where we are better off without Tariq."

Agreed 100%[/quote]

Dixon and Keita must be balling in practice. Similar to the way Simon and Clark scared off guys last year. I wonder if Ellison and Williams regret transferring yet.

Kicked off the team at Nevada and the absolute debacle at Pitt. Amazing.[/quote]

Dixon has been good, I think many are expecting too much from Keita next year and regardless, he would be the 5 and Owens the 4 with Clark the 3.[/quote]
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=276915][quote="Monte" post=276912]In this world of “I gotta do what’s best for me”, doesn’t anyone ever consider the concept of “team” and “honoring commitment”? I’m the parent of a 19 year old and a 22 year old, and while Mr LoVett and Mr Owens are certainly free to advise thief kids as they’d like, IMO they are doing some piss poor parenting.[/quote]

Couldn't you make that same speech to some of the posters on this board? While I get what you are saying in terms of commitment, but how many of us are quick to turn on and criticize any of our players at the drop of a hat? That is our right as fans, and most of it is just generated from a deep passion we have for this team, but when fans consistently display a lack of commitment to the players, how can we expect the players to have that same commitment?[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying, but where did I write that a kid has a commitment to the fans? For starters, by and large this fan base has been has been highly supportive of both Owens and LoVett. So that’s not even an issue if you want to make it one. I’m talking about the kids’ commitment to the his team and coaches. But at the end of the day, we stunk with Owens so we can stink without him. As I said when LoVett his Daddy bailed on the team, don’t let the door hit you on the way out kid.
 
Pete Maravich's dad, Press Maravich, was one of the very first players to play the game the way it is played in the modern era, pushing the ball upcourt and abandoning 2 handed set shots for jumpers. He also was much more than simply Pete's coach at LSU. He coached in other places, most notably UNC. A HS dropout who played for cash in industrial leagues, he actually went on to get not only an undergrad but also a grad degree.

He actually wrote a handbook to evaluate the emotional, mental capacity of a player in terms of how well he would fit on a team regardless of athletic ability. In this era that handbook should probably extend to parents. The handbook was used for years by many college coaches, but I'd have to guess it has fallen out of use.

It just seems we are recruiting too many of the wrong types, and maybe there's a way to evaluate that beyond ability. Certainly in our position beggars can't be as choosy as Duke, but still.
 
This is the way it is in college hoops. Graduating seniors are free agents.

Move on and get a one year replacement. Hopefully a better player.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=276932][quote="redmanwest" post=276925]A few points:

1. Very sorry to see this as TO was a spark and a hard-working guy. Important to our success next year. Exacerbates our already-existing weakness.

2. Hard to see how this helps him as I agree with many of the above sentiments. He was a starter, got plenty of minutes and fit in here when other teams may not have the same niche for him to fill (big man outside shooter).

3. Other big man transfers from here have NOT fared better (i.e., the grass is not always greener): Obepka; Sima; Williams

4. Many of the ins and outs have had strange twists on them that I am not sure can be blamed on the coaching staff. Wilson, Lovett, Owens, and all have family influence at the center. Most here would not question the other transfers we've had: Mussini (most thought he'd only stay a few years to go play abroad); Fruedenberg and Ellison (most thought that they were not suited for this level of play). So, while the level of annual change is disconcerting, I think that is a reflection of the fragile state of the program, the kinds of (maybe somewhat flakey) kids/reaches we are forced to resort to, etc. Overall, despite the changes, out talent level has increased year over year, and it looks (unless Ponds leaves) that would be the same next year; now with Owens departure maybe not so much.

5. The father's statement just shows that many of these kids look at going to school as a sidebar to their true primary focus is playing basketball at the next level, as realistic as that may or may not be depending on the kid. I know he is graduating (apparently), but the "free agent" mentality is a little shocking. Maybe it shouldn't be.

6. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the recruiting of at least 2 immediately available bigs for next year, and a lot of question into whether or not we can truly take a step up next year as we had hoped. Hopefully Matt and CM won't whiff on the targets that they have, as last year. Can't afford that.[/quote]

Agree with #1, but saying this has absolutely nothing to do with our staff's failure thus far is like trying to hide a horse but other people can obviously see the tail sticking out. We have to be able to discuss the elephant. Which is more likely? This failure all randomly happening with tons and tons of consistent bad luck, or our staff being incapable to this point of creating and maintaining a winner? Again, they work their tails off...they are trying, but it's not working. Going into year 4 and already seeing the foundation for future excuses is very troubling and shows where we are as a program. If I were at the helm, I'd force staff changes for next year. Bring in a bigs coach and a real veteran assistant coach. Then have all hands on deck aggressively pursuing graduate transfer big men. I don't even care if they're DII at this point to be honest. Do they have size? Good. Some semblance of soft touch around basket? Good. Knows how to box out? Sign him up. Make sure we get at least 2. Then if we are not much better next year, I doubt the Mullin experiment will ever truly work at least to the point of being a consistent NCAA team. Is there an outside consultant we can hire? Maybe they can tell us what we are missing. I mean that seriously. I'm more of a problem-solver but to solve problems we need to acknowledge them. We all love Mully but let's be real, the experiment is on its last legs. Next year is going to tell us a lot. Really hope we get some luck for a change.[/quote]

The staff is working hard? Ha! As, a whole.... Hardly so.

By the way, Happy.... I've long dug deep. Sound post.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=276887][quote="Class of 72" post=276882][quote="Paultzman" post=276867]Red White Chair just got the word.
[attachment=40]8F5A3738-18BD-4C78-8108-4DB562FC62DA.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]

My Irish brother in law on a typical Friday night.[/quote]


Isn’t it still Thursday?!!?[/quote]
Looks like he might have been watching the Buffalo-Arizona game.
 
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