2022-23 Season
- Thread starter bucketshardy
- Start date
Mug Costanza
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Geez that's an awful lot that has to go right just for this team to be somewhat good next year. I'm not saying it can't happen but feels like trying to hit a 6 leg parlay.redmannorth post=465170 said:
I understand the optimism of somebody that believes this is a team that can finish 4th or 5th in the BE next season and get an 8/9 seed in the tournament. I equally the pessimism of somebody that believes this is a 9th place .500ish team at best next season. We'll see how the roster shakes out by May or June.
If Wheeler returns and shows that he's ready to assume most of Champ's role(I ain't buying that multiple players can assume Champ's role), and if we retain most or all of the rest of the kids, and if we add 2 impact players(not 2 more role players), then my view will change. Plenty of time between now and the start of next season to improve the roster. But IMO this roster as it is now and including Storr and King, and even if you add a couple of more role players, will be lucky to finish in the middle of the Big East pack next season.kranmars post=465174 said:
With respect to Posh and those who do not consider him to be a star, I believe that he is being sold short. He has completed 2 years and is developing as a player. He has been remarkable in his growth at what is probably the premier position in college Bball today. Compare his year 1 to 2 and see that he improved in virtually every statistic. (Yes, his 3point shooting %age can improve but that is not the primary function for a PG.) His shooting percentage and assists per game both we increased. Before the season, I felt that he needed to increase the assists numbers which he did. Having seen point guards at SJU for about 40+ years, he is among the top three with Jackson and Barkley (also consider the players around those 2). Statistically even with Barkley and ahead of Jackson at this point of their careers. He is unique in his relentlessness. I might be prejudiced as we are both Brooklyn guys.
Can’t imagine being better than middle of the pack from what we can now see. Adding very solid, difference making transfers to augment the base has not been SJU forte to this point, but we’ll see. I too sense Wheeler goes pro somewhere, so I would rather be surprised than assume re slotting him in now.Monte post=465180 said:
When we watch the great surprises and play in the Dance, envy is a natural response. Fans, me included, sometimes out of desperation to get there tend to maximize expectations and roster pieces too prematurely and subjectively. As Mase and others have noted, the BE will lose a lot of quality players this season and SJU could benefit from that, but a lot of things have to happen to take advantage.
Keeping guys worth keeping, adding quality players with shooting and rebounding ability and working to the max in offseason skills and fitness development programs seems necessary. Easy to list, but harder to accomplish.
I’m just a fan, but hopefully MA & staff also commit themselves to evaluating this year’s results, planning and in game management, practice regimen, etc. If players can improve, so can staff.
Look here is what I will concede. There is time with the portal and decommitments from other schools to get some serious difference makers.
But if you are wondering why some are not as optimistic as others (I would argue more realistic than others) answer this simpler question. Be objective when you answer this.
If I gave you a Big East school that finished tied for 7th at 8-11, did not make either the NIT or the NCAA, is losing its best player and leading scorer and does not have a top 20 class coming in. And that nameless school was NOT SJU. Exactly how optimistic would you be that team would have a roster to make a serious jump.
If that were another school you would be saying, "Oh SJU can be better than that school next year, no way they have a roster or incoming class to replace Champagnie let alone be better than what they were this year..."
Just take UCONN yes they lose some key pieces they also bring back some key very highly recruited pieces who either played very little or were more role players but should be ready to assume larger roles. Andre Jackson and Jordan Hawkins were highly acclaimed recruits who optimistically should be ready to produce a lot more now. Corey Floyd Jr and Rahsool Diggins were stud recruits who hardly played at all but have the pedigree to make an immediate impact.
But if you are wondering why some are not as optimistic as others (I would argue more realistic than others) answer this simpler question. Be objective when you answer this.
If I gave you a Big East school that finished tied for 7th at 8-11, did not make either the NIT or the NCAA, is losing its best player and leading scorer and does not have a top 20 class coming in. And that nameless school was NOT SJU. Exactly how optimistic would you be that team would have a roster to make a serious jump.
If that were another school you would be saying, "Oh SJU can be better than that school next year, no way they have a roster or incoming class to replace Champagnie let alone be better than what they were this year..."
Just take UCONN yes they lose some key pieces they also bring back some key very highly recruited pieces who either played very little or were more role players but should be ready to assume larger roles. Andre Jackson and Jordan Hawkins were highly acclaimed recruits who optimistically should be ready to produce a lot more now. Corey Floyd Jr and Rahsool Diggins were stud recruits who hardly played at all but have the pedigree to make an immediate impact.
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One other thing; even if Pinzon, Stanley and Nyiwe take a step forward next season, they still only become better role players. And maybe Traore, who was redshirted on a team in desperate need of frond court help, gives us what Stanley gave us this year. I highly doubt we get more than that. Even if those things happen, all we're doing is giving existing role players more PT to make up for the loss of Champ, Smith, Coburn and maybe Wheeler. And while I do like Soriano, IMO he does not have a ton of upside. So basically, best case scenario, realistically we are going in to next season with more or less the same level of talent as this season. Again, that can change, but the idea of bringing in role players as we did last season, and combining them with the existing players plus King and Storr, is not making me feel very optimistic about next season.
Monte post=465187 said:
Coming into his soph year, I would have thought Champ was going to be really good role player. This year I would have guessed Wheeler would be 5 point scorer. Guys improve and grow into different roles. Who’s to say none of those guys you are penciling in as a role players don’t take a jump. And BTW I’m mostly with you when it comes to not expecting new pieces to be able to step in and provide anything. It is the continuity that gives me most hope. Yes I said hope.
Surprised you don’t think Soriano has any upside. We saw him playing much better as the season got going. He’s definitely got skills as an offensive player. His consistency was a huge issue.
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I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying we can't bank on it and I'm not expecting t it. Champ was a 10PPG starter as a freshmen. So he wasn't exactly a role player except maybe early on his freshman year. Could Pinzon or Stanley take a huge leap forward and be an impact player? Of course they can, but we haven't seen nearly enough from them to think that's likely. Who else do you think is capable of a Champ-like leap? Mathis? Wusu? I just don't see it. As for Soriano, I didn't say he had no upside, I just think he has limited upside. In other words, maybe he gives us 25 MPG and 8/7 next season. Not bad if he's surrounded by a lot of talent, but not enough if he's one of our best players.Amaseinyourface post=465199 said:
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BR I too am from Brooklyn and I too love Posh, but I don't think he is yet at the level of Barkley and certainly not MJ. Saying that he is not yet a star is no knock on him, he's a phenomenal basketball player and we are most fortunate to have him. But he is off injured, inconsistent and on at least 3 occasions, did not start for questionable reasons. I hope all those issues resolve themselves next season and he blossoms in to an all-american level player who can carry us most games. But until that happens, IMO he comes up short of being called a star.BrooklynRed post=465183 said:
Two changes I’d like to see next season.
1 Mike Anderson could certainly be described as a perfect gentleman. I’d like him to leave that persona at home on game nights and behave just like Cooley, Wright, Hurley etc. during games. I don’t know how the coaches behave down south but in the northeast and especially in the big east coaches get on the referees fighting for any advantage. A technical foul backing up your player is not the worst thing in the world.
2 The biggest reason for this seasons failures was the inability to perform at the end of so many big east games. Both performance and strategy were lacking. Instead of ending up with twenty five foot shots at crunch time I’d put the ball in Posh’s hands and let him decide taking in to the rim, taking a 15 ft jump shot or passing the ball to a teammate for shot from the paint or the corner. He will certainly be able that responsibility next season.
1 Mike Anderson could certainly be described as a perfect gentleman. I’d like him to leave that persona at home on game nights and behave just like Cooley, Wright, Hurley etc. during games. I don’t know how the coaches behave down south but in the northeast and especially in the big east coaches get on the referees fighting for any advantage. A technical foul backing up your player is not the worst thing in the world.
2 The biggest reason for this seasons failures was the inability to perform at the end of so many big east games. Both performance and strategy were lacking. Instead of ending up with twenty five foot shots at crunch time I’d put the ball in Posh’s hands and let him decide taking in to the rim, taking a 15 ft jump shot or passing the ball to a teammate for shot from the paint or the corner. He will certainly be able that responsibility next season.
boo haarvey
Active member
Monte post=465224 said:
Hard to be a legitimate big time star in college when you can’t have the ball in your hands late. At this stage, for about 38 minutes in an up and down game, Posh is a star.
He's the best on ball defender I've seen at SJU maybe Hatten was better and all the losing since has made my mind hazy but there isnt a game where there isnt something he does where I dont say wow whether it's defense or running out a ball out of bounds and throwning it off another player no matter what the score or going for offensive rebounds better than guys a lot taller than himAmaseinyourface post=465263 said:
Monte post=465218 said:
I don’t think anyone will make the type of jump Champ made, just noting guys come back as different players. And no matter how good any of us thought Champ looked as a frosh I guarantee nobody thought he’d lead the BE in scoring as a Soph.
I wouldn’t guess that Mathis has a jump in him. I would think Wusu certainly does, but I’ve beat the drum enough. Soriano I could see being closer to 10 a game. Maybe I like Pinzon and Stanley more than most. If they are 6Th and 7Th men as Sophs and each take a natural step forward I’d take it. Id say there’s a real good chance Pinzon brings more than Smith and Coburn brought last year. Most important thing other than retaining the core is bringing in at least one transfer who is talented enough to start in the BE. Position not as important as if he can play or not IMO, but if we had our choice I’d say a wing who can shoot.
mjmaherjr post=465265 said:
I love him. I think some of the same things that make him great also hurt him in some situations. End of game, half court, back and forth pace comes to mind. Can Pinzon or Wusu be a consistent double digit scorer off the ball to help him late in games? I really like them both but don’t think scoring is what necessary makes them good players. Maybe Storr, but I think he’ll be more of a SF. Go get a guard/wing transfer who’s primary ability is to score the ball.