2019 NY Mets

Jack of Virginia said:
Absolutely agree, especially with the second guessing. Let's face it even though Seawall has been a disappointment in the past he recently has looked a lot better. No way should Callaway used LUGO in the ninth, just imagine all the criticism he would have warranted from all you second guessers. As far as I am concerned it came down to Diaz' last pitch. He made the batter look bad on two great sliders,so what does Nido call for two fast balls. That ladies and gentlemen was the reason for the loss.

Since I did the second guessing let me suggest, as I have too all too often, did you read my post? I understood Lugo not pitching the 9th. I was clear I understood that, just as clear that I thought Diaz should have started the 9th, not brought into a situation like he was. A managers job, any manager, sports or otherwise, is to put people in situations to succeed, not poke and hope aimlessly. And I don't care if Seward was pitching better in your eyes. he is a lesser than mediocre pitcher with a 7 ERA, I believe. As for Nido, the catcher suggests, the pitcher decides, except in the rarest of rare occasions, say if you have Yadier Molina behind the plate; Nido is hardly in that company. The pitchers chosen share the blame for sure but Calloway has proven all too often this season he is clueless in handling a pitching staff; last night was just another example, albeit a very glaring one. He should be in full "Herman Edwards" mode and he is not.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=357256]Horrible, horrible loss. Actually, if you stack up all of the Mets horrible losses, this one looks more horrible than just about any of them.

As always said, hindsight is 20-20. Completely understand that Lugo was to pitch the 8th and 9th, but once we had a 6 run lead, not to waste him. He is often unavailable the next day after 1 inning of work, and 2 innings would have made him completely unavailable if needed tonight. The failure of any major league bullpen, no less your ace closer to hold down a 6 run lead is ridiculously on the players. A guy like Seewald just had to get 3 outs in a situation even if he was nicked for a couple of runs. Diaz' performance is inexcusable and you could only imagine what a Steinbrenner in his prime would have done or said today.

To me, the Lugo decision made tons of sense, but after Lugo our bullpen totally sucks and should all be cut loose for triple A players.

Oh, except for the fact the the Syracuse Mets blews an 8th inning 13-7 lead of their own last night and lost 14-13.[/quote]

Most of the guys who were involved in blowing the Syracuse games have pitched on The Mets and are very similar in ability to the guys in the majors. Pretty sad.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=357266][quote="Beast of the East" post=357256]Horrible, horrible loss. Actually, if you stack up all of the Mets horrible losses, this one looks more horrible than just about any of them.

As always said, hindsight is 20-20. Completely understand that Lugo was to pitch the 8th and 9th, but once we had a 6 run lead, not to waste him. He is often unavailable the next day after 1 inning of work, and 2 innings would have made him completely unavailable if needed tonight. The failure of any major league bullpen, no less your ace closer to hold down a 6 run lead is ridiculously on the players. A guy like Seewald just had to get 3 outs in a situation even if he was nicked for a couple of runs. Diaz' performance is inexcusable and you could only imagine what a Steinbrenner in his prime would have done or said today.

To me, the Lugo decision made tons of sense, but after Lugo our bullpen totally sucks and should all be cut loose for triple A players.

Oh, except for the fact the the Syracuse Mets blews an 8th inning 13-7 lead of their own last night and lost 14-13.[/quote]

Absolutely agree, especially with the second guessing. Let's face it even though Seawall has been a disappointment in the past he recently has looked a lot better. No way should Callaway used LUGO in the ninth, just imagine all the criticism he would have warranted from all you second guessers. As far as I am concerned it came down to Diaz' last pitch. He made the batter look bad on two great sliders,so what does Nido call for two fast balls. That ladies and gentlemen was the reason for the loss.[/quote]

I can’t agree with you. Mets have 24 or so games left. You lose with your best. Watching this team all season you have to know, no lead is safe with this bullpen. Is it really a second guess when your sitting at home wondering if a 6 run lead is enough? Don’t lie, anyone who stayed up to see the end of that game was thinking that exact question. Sad but true.
 
Just as I was writing my previous post, Mets were up 7-1. A half inning of Familia and abracadabra it’s 7-4. Still 3 whole innings to cover. They can’t possibly blow a 6 run lead again could they?
 
[quote="sjc88" post=357275][quote="JackofVirginia" post=357266][quote="Beast of the East" post=357256]Horrible, horrible loss. Actually, if you stack up all of the Mets horrible losses, this one looks more horrible than just about any of them.

As always said, hindsight is 20-20. Completely understand that Lugo was to pitch the 8th and 9th, but once we had a 6 run lead, not to waste him. He is often unavailable the next day after 1 inning of work, and 2 innings would have made him completely unavailable if needed tonight. The failure of any major league bullpen, no less your ace closer to hold down a 6 run lead is ridiculously on the players. A guy like Seewald just had to get 3 outs in a situation even if he was nicked for a couple of runs. Diaz' performance is inexcusable and you could only imagine what a Steinbrenner in his prime would have done or said today.

To me, the Lugo decision made tons of sense, but after Lugo our bullpen totally sucks and should all be cut loose for triple A players.

Oh, except for the fact the the Syracuse Mets blews an 8th inning 13-7 lead of their own last night and lost 14-13.[/quote]

Absolutely agree, especially with the second guessing. Let's face it even though Seawall has been a disappointment in the past he recently has looked a lot better. No way should Callaway used LUGO in the ninth, just imagine all the criticism he would have warranted from all you second guessers. As far as I am concerned it came down to Diaz' last pitch. He made the batter look bad on two great sliders,so what does Nido call for two fast balls. That ladies and gentlemen was the reason for the loss.[/quote]

I can’t agree with you. Mets have 24 or so games left. You lose with your best. Watching this team all season you have to know, no lead is safe with this bullpen. Is it really a second guess when your sitting at home wondering if a 6 run lead is enough? Don’t lie, anyone who stayed up to see the end of that game was thinking that exact question. Sad but true.[/quote]

To your point, after Alfonso's homer in the 9th putting us up 6, my brother and I texted each other, "thank God, that should be enough". We were wrong!!
 
Everyone who was so worried about Lugo pitching two innings on the night of the disaster notice that Lugo pitched the 7th and 8th yesterday in an 8-4 game? Exactly how does that make any sense? Oh, and the pitcher he seemingly forgot about since Saturday, Justin Wilson, pitched an effective 1,2,3 9th. So in summary he used Sewald, Avilan and Diaz the night before yet wouldn’t use Wilson and then pushed Lugo the day after when we really needed him the night before.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=357289]Everyone who was so worried about Lugo pitching two innings on the night of the disaster notice that Lugo pitched the 7th and 8th yesterday in an 8-4 game? Exactly how does that make any sense? Oh, and the pitcher he seemingly forgot about since Saturday, Justin Wilson, pitched an effective 1,2,3 9th. So in summary he used Sewald, Avilan and Diaz the night before yet wouldn’t use Wilson and then pushed Lugo the day after when we really needed him the night before.[/quote]

Respectfully don't agree. 6 run lead wasn't desperate times. Losing a 6 run lead in the 9th made last night more desperate. Plus, and a big plus, today is an off day, which makes Lugo available on Friday
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=357292][quote="sjc88" post=357289]Everyone who was so worried about Lugo pitching two innings on the night of the disaster notice that Lugo pitched the 7th and 8th yesterday in an 8-4 game? Exactly how does that make any sense? Oh, and the pitcher he seemingly forgot about since Saturday, Justin Wilson, pitched an effective 1,2,3 9th. So in summary he used Sewald, Avilan and Diaz the night before yet wouldn’t use Wilson and then pushed Lugo the day after when we really needed him the night before.[/quote]

Respectfully don't agree. 6 run lead wasn't desperate times. Losing a 6 run lead in the 9th made last night more desperate. Plus, and a big plus, today is an off day, which makes Lugo available on Friday[/quote]

Did you ever consider that if Mets protected the 6 run lead and won using Lugo for two innings? Then you are not desperate to win the next day and Wilson picks up the slack and protects the next day 8-4 win. In that scenario Mets win both games and Lugo doesn’t pitch yesterday and today and of course is also available Friday.
By the way, and yes this is a different argument, where was Justin Wilson on Tuesday? This Manager used Avilan, Sewald and Diaz. Never used Wilson who hadn’t pitched since Saturday. Sorry, but I also respectfully disagree. Callaway is a terrible in game Manager. I think We do agree he has been given a bad hand of personnel especially out of the pen.
 
[quote="Logen" post=357267]Jack of Virginia said:
Absolutely agree, especially with the second guessing. Let's face it even though Seawall has been a disappointment in the past he recently has looked a lot better. No way should Callaway used LUGO in the ninth, just imagine all the criticism he would have warranted from all you second guessers. As far as I am concerned it came down to Diaz' last pitch. He made the batter look bad on two great sliders,so what does Nido call for two fast balls. That ladies and gentlemen was the reason for the loss.

Since I did the second guessing let me suggest, as I have too all too often, did you read my post? I understood Lugo not pitching the 9th. I was clear I understood that, just as clear that I thought Diaz should have started the 9th, not brought into a situation like he was. A managers job, any manager, sports or otherwise, is to put people in situations to succeed, not poke and hope aimlessly. And I don't care if Seward was pitching better in your eyes. he is a lesser than mediocre pitcher with a 7 ERA, I believe. As for Nido, the catcher suggests, the pitcher decides, except in the rarest of rare occasions, say if you have Yadier Molina behind the plate; Nido is hardly in that company. The pitchers chosen share the blame for sure but Calloway has proven all too often this season he is clueless in handling a pitching staff; last night was just another example, albeit a very glaring one. He should be in full "Herman Edwards" mode and he is not.[/quote]


You are 100% right that Diaz could have shaken off the fast ball call from Nido and should have. Interestingly, yesterday on the SNY Baseball Tonight Show John Harper, Daily News Reporter, spoke about this, mentioning that scouts have claimed Diaz has trouble making decisions on what to throw. And he also backed up what I had posted saying Diaz had thrown two good sliders and came back with two fast balls that Suzuki was on.
BTW, even though closers may not fare well coming in the middle of the inning they also don't always have success coming in a non save situation in the start of an inning. The score was 10 - 8 when Diaz faced Suzuki, a save situation. I usually don't defend Callaway and really believe Brodie is going to bring his own guy in next year unless of course we make the wild card game.
Let's go Mets!
 
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Diaz causes me more pain than Norm Roberts recruiting. Thank God the Alonso walk bailed us out
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=357292][quote="sjc88" post=357289]Everyone who was so worried about Lugo pitching two innings on the night of the disaster notice that Lugo pitched the 7th and 8th yesterday in an 8-4 game? Exactly how does that make any sense? Oh, and the pitcher he seemingly forgot about since Saturday, Justin Wilson, pitched an effective 1,2,3 9th. So in summary he used Sewald, Avilan and Diaz the night before yet wouldn’t use Wilson and then pushed Lugo the day after when we really needed him the night before.[/quote]

Respectfully don't agree. 6 run lead wasn't desperate times. Losing a 6 run lead in the 9th made last night more desperate. Plus, and a big plus, today is an off day, which makes Lugo available on Friday[/quote]

Lugo not available Friday. Poor two inning usage on Wednesday. Diaz used, gives up 2 run HR that ties game.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=357386][quote="Beast of the East" post=357292][quote="sjc88" post=357289]Everyone who was so worried about Lugo pitching two innings on the night of the disaster notice that Lugo pitched the 7th and 8th yesterday in an 8-4 game? Exactly how does that make any sense? Oh, and the pitcher he seemingly forgot about since Saturday, Justin Wilson, pitched an effective 1,2,3 9th. So in summary he used Sewald, Avilan and Diaz the night before yet wouldn’t use Wilson and then pushed Lugo the day after when we really needed him the night before.[/quote]

Respectfully don't agree. 6 run lead wasn't desperate times. Losing a 6 run lead in the 9th made last night more desperate. Plus, and a big plus, today is an off day, which makes Lugo available on Friday[/quote]

Lugo not available Friday. Poor two inning usage on Wednesday. Diaz used, gives up 2 run HR that ties game.[/quote]

Uhhh Who is the one that continues to put Diaz in, and Diaz continues to give up HRs?
Callaway gotta get fired after the season.
 
Diaz and Familia at the back of the pen mean we have no chance of pulling out the playoffs. This offense can't always bail them out. Familia proved he can't handle a big stage. I have no idea why they brought him back.

I saw this analysis of Diaz on Amazin Avenue and thought it was interesting

Data doesn't lie
Last year, Diaz grooved 2.5% of his sliders. (That is, middle-middle, where virtually no slider should end up.)

This year, Diaz has grooved just under 8% of his sliders. His groove rate is virtually unchanged against lefties (right around 1 percent in both years), but against righties, it’s jumped from 3.9% last year to 10.8% this year

Last year, against righties, he was giving up a 20% line drive rate on his slider. This year, over 28%.

Last year, his slider ISO against was .151 for righties and .020 for lefties. This year, it’s .271 for righties and .235 for lefties.

Against righties, he left about 15% of his sliders middle-to-up in the zone last year. This year, it’s just under 22%. Last year, around 15% of his sliders ended up middle-in below the zone against righties. This year, that’s only about 7.5%.

Against lefties, it’s a similar-ish story. Fewer pitches middle-up, but he’s lost the ability to consistently get the slider down-and-away-ish to lefties. Last year, about 25% of his sliders to lefties ended up middle-away below the zone. This year, that number is below 16%.

Why is Diaz struggling? He’s a two pitch pitcher who has lost command of one of his pitches. His slider sometimes works fine, and he still gets whiffs off of it (even if the whiff % is down from 29% to 23%), but he can’t consistently get it where it needs to go, and as a result is leaving it up in the zone in hittable areas. And as Tom Seaver once said – catchers don’t catch hanging sliders, fans catch hanging sliders.

Posted by Verklemptomaniac on Sep 6, 2019 | 11:59 PM
 
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=357385]EdWIN Diaz! He has learned much from The Vulture![/quote] The Vulture needs to summon his former teammate Lefty Grove for some advice.
 
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[quote="gman" post=357394]Diaz and Familia at the back of the pen mean we have no chance of pulling out the playoffs. This offense can't always bail them out. Familia proved he can't handle a big stage. I have no idea why they brought him back.

I saw this analysis of Diaz on Amazin Avenue and thought it was interesting

Data doesn't lie
Last year, Diaz grooved 2.5% of his sliders. (That is, middle-middle, where virtually no slider should end up.)

This year, Diaz has grooved just under 8% of his sliders. His groove rate is virtually unchanged against lefties (right around 1 percent in both years), but against righties, it’s jumped from 3.9% last year to 10.8% this year

Last year, against righties, he was giving up a 20% line drive rate on his slider. This year, over 28%.

Last year, his slider ISO against was .151 for righties and .020 for lefties. This year, it’s .271 for righties and .235 for lefties.

Against righties, he left about 15% of his sliders middle-to-up in the zone last year. This year, it’s just under 22%. Last year, around 15% of his sliders ended up middle-in below the zone against righties. This year, that’s only about 7.5%.

Against lefties, it’s a similar-ish story. Fewer pitches middle-up, but he’s lost the ability to consistently get the slider down-and-away-ish to lefties. Last year, about 25% of his sliders to lefties ended up middle-away below the zone. This year, that number is below 16%.

Why is Diaz struggling? He’s a two pitch pitcher who has lost command of one of his pitches. His slider sometimes works fine, and he still gets whiffs off of it (even if the whiff % is down from 29% to 23%), but he can’t consistently get it where it needs to go, and as a result is leaving it up in the zone in hittable areas. And as Tom Seaver once said – catchers don’t catch hanging sliders, fans catch hanging sliders.

Posted by Verklemptomaniac on Sep 6, 2019 | 11:59 PM[/quote]

Been known in baseball circles forever that pitchers who pitch in hittable zones get hit harder than pitchers who don’t. Data means nothing if you can’t use it to get to the why and correct which evidently they can’t.
 
[quote="gman" post=357394]Diaz and Familia at the back of the pen mean we have no chance of pulling out the playoffs. This offense can't always bail them out. Familia proved he can't handle a big stage. I have no idea why they brought him back.

I saw this analysis of Diaz on Amazin Avenue and thought it was interesting

Data doesn't lie
Last year, Diaz grooved 2.5% of his sliders. (That is, middle-middle, where virtually no slider should end up.)

This year, Diaz has grooved just under 8% of his sliders. His groove rate is virtually unchanged against lefties (right around 1 percent in both years), but against righties, it’s jumped from 3.9% last year to 10.8% this year

Last year, against righties, he was giving up a 20% line drive rate on his slider. This year, over 28%.

Last year, his slider ISO against was .151 for righties and .020 for lefties. This year, it’s .271 for righties and .235 for lefties.

Against righties, he left about 15% of his sliders middle-to-up in the zone last year. This year, it’s just under 22%. Last year, around 15% of his sliders ended up middle-in below the zone against righties. This year, that’s only about 7.5%.

Against lefties, it’s a similar-ish story. Fewer pitches middle-up, but he’s lost the ability to consistently get the slider down-and-away-ish to lefties. Last year, about 25% of his sliders to lefties ended up middle-away below the zone. This year, that number is below 16%.

Why is Diaz struggling? He’s a two pitch pitcher who has lost command of one of his pitches. His slider sometimes works fine, and he still gets whiffs off of it (even if the whiff % is down from 29% to 23%), but he can’t consistently get it where it needs to go, and as a result is leaving it up in the zone in hittable areas. And as Tom Seaver once said – catchers don’t catch hanging sliders, fans catch hanging sliders.

Posted by Verklemptomaniac on Sep 6, 2019 | 11:59 PM[/quote]


Probably gone next year, another pitcher who can't handle New York. Won't get back what talent they gave up unfortunately. Sadly this guy has a moving fastball (don't mean the one they hit out of the park) and a decent slider ( not the one he grooved to Realmuto).
 
No none mentioned this on TV but I thought a key decision by Matz in the sixth inning with a one run lead was a pivotal one. With Hoskins on second and Franco up at bat Matz totally ignored Hoskins allowing him to almost walk safely to third. Franco hits a sharp single to center easily scoring Hoskins with the tying run. Had Matz held him on second I don't believe the slow running Hoskins would have been waved home. And we would have had a 2 to 1 lead. Just my opinion.
 
What a wonderful effort by Marcus Stroman tonight. Gave up a lead off homer to start the game. Total of 4 innings, 5 runs 10 (!) hits. 85 pitches. Looks like he was Throwing batting practice. He’s been terrible. Can’t wait to hear the excuses.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=357428]What a wonderful effort by Marcus Stroman tonight. Gave up a lead off homer to start the game. Total of 4 innings, 5 runs 10 (!) hits. 85 pitches. Looks like he was Throwing batting practice. He’s been terrible. Can’t wait to hear the excuses.[/quote]

Well, in 7 starts, he has pitched 3 six inning games and into the 5th once while pitching to a plus 5 ERA. I can’t talk Toronto but he has pitched about a quarter of a starters season for the Mets and has pitched poorly by any standards.
 
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